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Re: Samskrit - 2nd message on the status

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  • adiyendasi
    Probably because if they discussed in Samskritam, THEY would still be able to understand each other but others in this forum may not understand the gravity of
    Message 1 of 14 , May 4, 2013
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      Probably because if they discussed in Samskritam, THEY would still be able to understand each other but others in this forum may not understand the gravity of the situation...

      I don't see the irony at all..It is sad state of affairs.

      Padma

      --- In alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com, Shishir Kant Misra <eskaym@...> wrote:
      >
      > I find it ironical that all my friends on this board are showing concern how and why to resurrect Sanskrit and all of them are doing so in English. None of them has written a single sentence in Sanskrit. Just one member wrote two words in Sanskrit [could as well be construed Hindi--since no verb was used. But I can still say "Aham, sanskrit bhashayam varta karomi." May be it is not a correct sentence but I had left learning sanskrit 55years ago.
      >
      > Keep Smiling not becuz of something,
      > But INSPITE of every thing
      > Shishir
      > ( Shishir Kant Misra )
      >
      > --- On Fri, 3/5/13, Bhuvana Venkat <bhuva78@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: Bhuvana Venkat <bhuva78@...>
      > Subject: RE: [alt-ed-india] Samskrit - 2nd message on the status
      > To: "alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com" <alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com>
      > Date: Friday, 3 May, 2013, 3:56 AM
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi,
      > I love the language. My mother is an MA in Sanskrit taught the language for 15 years and is currently pursuing her PhD combining her interests of Math and Sanskrit. I have learnt Sanskrit at school & also attended the Samskrit Bharathi classes and while some of them are not grammatically correct their method of teaching and approach to sanskrit as a spoken language is good.
      >
      >
      > However, the problem that Sanskrit faces today is not because people don't appreciate it as an ancient language or the beauty of it. The problem it faces is the need to learn it. Necessity is the mother of learning. While everybody sees the need to learn English, the obvious benefit being 'moolah' , the necessity to learn sanskrit or for that matter even their own mother tongue (if it is something other than the local language) is not very obvious. 
      >
      >
      > To revive sanskrit, in my opinion, what is required is probably to unearth the scientific advancements or adopt a methodical approach to vedic maths to do normal school calculations. Use our way of doing things... Introduce the theorems and methodologies that were practiced then with proofs. Some advanced mathematical concepts are explained very simply in our ancient texts. What takes pages to solve in our current european model takes much less. Very few seem to see the value in devoting time and energy in the understanding of ancient texts. There are plenty of texts for basic math available in the market today but none that can be standardised into a curriculum. Unless sanskrit is introduced into other avenues and not just as a language for communication (it has already lost that advantage), I am not hopeful of revival.
      >
      >
      > Many dancers have learnt sanskrit because they see the need for it in being able to read the Natyashastra. Similarly, only the application of the language can bring it to life. Otherwise just like a small bunch of literature students learn latin out of interest, sanskrit will remain a language of the literature scholars or just a bunch of interested people.
      > regards
      > Bhuvana
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
      > From: cgkmurthi@...
      > Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 11:47:47 +0000
      > Subject: [alt-ed-india] Samskrit - 2nd message on the status
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > We knew that over 26 university campuses, 30+ Sanskrit colleges, etc. - if not please read one of my earlier post in this forum - or you can visit my blog also where it is archived -  http://vartula.blogspot.in/
      >
      > Now over 20,000 CBSE /Metric schools across the country offering Samskritam as 2nd /3rd language - Over 20,00,000 students across the country opting to learn Samskritam as 2nd /3rd language. 2 Daily newspapers and 4 monthly magazines and 8 monthly /quarterly journals are in circulation in shuddha Samskritam
      >
      > Over 5,000 Samskritam words in common usage across every single spoken /written languages all over India from Panjabi to Tamil. Over 50% of Country's population can read /write Devanagari script. All we need to do is to make this language again the spoken language across Bharatam - then many will be able to unearth the treasures hidden in Samskritam. I am sure the day is not far off.
      >
      > Samskritam flows out of people's (at least the karma krit's) mouth on all auspicious occasions - Marriage, Pooja, Prayer, Festivals, Ceremonies, etc.
      >
      > The script is mastered nowadays as many people are able to easily read devanagari script - Even while mastering the script (devanagari) the language (samskritam) is still not spoken widely now.
      >
      > But why it is still not yet spoken? -
      >
      > First: In India majority of the people speak in Urdu than Hindi /Samskritam. The unfortunate situation is that, people use the lipi but not the language. Many in South India can understand Hindi if only the Hindi is spoken purely with words in the right side below and not with the words from Urdu /Persian /Arabic. Some of the words that came to mind are given below, with my limited Hindi (Urdu) knowledge!
      >
      >
      > Words on the right are indeed right !
      >
      > Paani - Jalam
      > Ghar - Gruham
      > Beta - Putra
      > Beti - Putri
      > Sadak - Marga
      > Biwi - Patni
      > Papa - Pitaa
      > Gaadi - Vahanam
      > Kitab - Pustakam
      > Tayaar - Siddham
      > Khabar - Vaarta
      > Janab - Manya
      > Dil - Hrudaya
      > Hoopsurat - Sundar
      > Kapda - Vastra
      > Mera - mama
      > Ham - Aham
      > Aaj - Adya
      > Gaav - Graama
      > Haath - Hasta
      > Jyaadaa - Adhika
      > Shuruvaad - Aarambh
      > Karore /Karode - Koti
      > Laakho - Laksha
      > Aankhon - Netra
      > Bal - Kesha
      > Mohabbat - Prema
      > Pet - Udaram
      > Admi - Lok
      >
      >
      > Many political forces want to keep people (us) uneducated - real education has nothing to do with getting some English knowledge or getting a degree. Without Samskriti (Culture) real Education is not gained â€" only knowledge is gained. We have to consciously replace Urdu/Parsi/Arabic words with Samskritam words - thus pan India people will be able to understand each other, much better. As we have done by introducing a language called in Hindi in 1930s â€" we need to bring back Samskritam â€" for the benefit of the society.
      >
      > Second: It takes one-twentieth of the time to teach Samskritam to an Indian in comparison with a foreigner - Samskritam is in our blood - when are we going to wake-up to this truth?
      >
      > Third: If anyone says Samskritam is a dead-language then that person must have been brain-washed by our English worshiping elite and /or administrators /historians else that person is delusional - (In all the cases such people are children of Macaulay) - unfortunately for all these delusions the cure is not there - only that I can guarantee is that Samskritam is very much alive and active.
      >
      > Forth: We sure have over 25,000 PG level Samskritam scholars across the country - if only 10% of these get into teaching Samskritam to common people we can realize the dream of a Samskrita Rajyam (Samyak kritam Rajyam - well made country, like Samyak kritam = Samskritam) in just a couple of decades itself.
      >
      > Fifth: Even though lakhs knew Samskritam, the fundamental flaw is in the method of teaching. They have learnt Samskritam through another language and again they are imparting Samskritam through another language - this must be stopped immediately - best course of action is to pick up the Samskrita Bharati method of Teaching Samskritam using simple Samskritam itself - though some feel there are shortcomings in Samskrita Bharati method but till date it is the only proven system and widely used system of spoken Samskritam
      >
      > This message should have been written in Samskritam, yet written in English - unfortunately for the purpose of reaching more audience. After all these the obvious question - Why we need to learn Samskritam? â€" Many scientific reasons are there â€" you can visit my blog http://sanskritlinguistics.blogspot.in/ to read the articles or just a web search will give answers.
      >
      >
      > Regards
      > CG Krishnamurthi
      >
      >  
      >
    • Sharla Chakravarthy Joseph
      Although I am from another country, I have studied with the Samskruta Bharati correspondence course. I agree that Samskruta is a beautiful language which has
      Message 2 of 14 , May 4, 2013
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        Although I am from another country, I have studied with the Samskruta Bharati correspondence course.
        I agree that Samskruta is a beautiful language which has nourished many languages and traditions in India.  Its structure is indeed elegant.  It has had a broad and deep influence in India (even in the Dravidian languages), which  could make it easier for Indians than foreigners to learn.  However, as a student of linguistics, I cannot agree that any language is better than another or that some words are 'right' and others not.

        It is precisely because Samskruta is a classical language, no longer widely used in daily communication, that the idea of its 'purity' has sprung up.  As with any classical language, people begin to think that the language is defined and limited to the extant texts--those texts which have been preserved from ancient times rather than the texts that were lost, not to mention the oral Samskruta that was never written down.  However, back in the days when Samskruta was spoken in the home and the marketplace, can you say that it was never influenced by any other language?   No language exists or develops in a vacuum.  Archaeological evidence shows that from ancient times there has been much cross-fertilization and exchange between the many cultures of Asia, Africa and Europe. 

        In fact, linguists agree that Samskruta, along with languages such as ancient Greek and Latin, all developed from a mother  language which they call 'Proto-Indo-European' (it was called Proto-Aryan in the days before Hitler misused that term so horribly).  Each of these classical languages developed in its own way, influenced by the geography, culture & history of its speakers, including the neighbours they traded and fought with.  Each of these ancient languages changed and developed into new languages as their speakers moved and interacted with new neighbours and other cultural influences.  There is nothing wrong in this.  It is no more reasonable to say that Spanish or French are impure Latin than to say that Hindi is impure Samskrita.  Each has developed into a language in its own right, fitting its own situation.  This is the natural way that languages grow.  People use words that are useful to them to communicate clearly with people who are important to them.  That is what language is about.

        So, please, while you are promoting the beautiful language of Samskruti, do keep to the heritage of the ancient speakers of Samskruti who grew, changed and adapted to their changing environment.  The inherent beauty and value of Samskruti should make it possible to promote its use without pushing down or insulting other languages or  people.

          

        On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 5:17 PM, CG Krishnamurthi <cgkmurthi@...> wrote:
         

        We knew that over 26 university campuses, 30+ Sanskrit colleges, etc. - if not please read one of my earlier post in this forum - or you can visit my blog also where it is archived -  http://vartula.blogspot.in/

        Now over 20,000 CBSE /Metric schools across the country offering Samskritam as 2nd /3rd language - Over 20,00,000 students across the country opting to learn Samskritam as 2nd /3rd language. 2 Daily newspapers and 4 monthly magazines and 8 monthly /quarterly journals are in circulation in shuddha Samskritam

        Over 5,000 Samskritam words in common usage across every single spoken /written languages all over India from Panjabi to Tamil. Over 50% of Country's population can read /write Devanagari script. All we need to do is to make this language again the spoken language across Bharatam - then many will be able to unearth the treasures hidden in Samskritam. I am sure the day is not far off.

        Samskritam flows out of people's (at least the karma krit's) mouth on all auspicious occasions - Marriage, Pooja, Prayer, Festivals, Ceremonies, etc.

        The script is mastered nowadays as many people are able to easily read devanagari script - Even while mastering the script (devanagari) the language (samskritam) is still not spoken widely now.

        But why it is still not yet spoken? -

        First: In India majority of the people speak in Urdu than Hindi /Samskritam. The unfortunate situation is that, people use the lipi but not the language. Many in South India can understand Hindi if only the Hindi is spoken purely with words in the right side below and not with the words from Urdu /Persian /Arabic. Some of the words that came to mind are given below, with my limited Hindi (Urdu) knowledge!


        Words on the right are indeed right !


        Paani - Jalam
        Ghar - Gruham
        Beta - Putra
        Beti - Putri
        Sadak - Marga
        Biwi - Patni
        Papa - Pitaa
        Gaadi - Vahanam
        Kitab - Pustakam
        Tayaar - Siddham
        Khabar - Vaarta
        Janab - Manya
        Dil - Hrudaya
        Hoopsurat - Sundar
        Kapda - Vastra
        Mera - mama
        Ham - Aham
        Aaj - Adya
        Gaav - Graama
        Haath - Hasta
        Jyaadaa - Adhika
        Shuruvaad - Aarambh
        Karore /Karode - Koti
        Laakho - Laksha
        Aankhon - Netra
        Bal - Kesha
        Mohabbat - Prema
        Pet - Udaram
        Admi - Lok


        Many political forces want to keep people (us) uneducated - real education has nothing to do with getting some English knowledge or getting a degree. Without Samskriti (Culture) real Education is not gained – only knowledge is gained. We have to consciously replace Urdu/Parsi/Arabic words with Samskritam words - thus pan India people will be able to understand each other, much better. As we have done by introducing a language called in Hindi in 1930s – we need to bring back Samskritam – for the benefit of the society.


        Second: It takes one-twentieth of the time to teach Samskritam to an Indian in comparison with a foreigner - Samskritam is in our blood - when are we going to wake-up to this truth?

        Third: If anyone says Samskritam is a dead-language then that person must have been brain-washed by our English worshiping elite and /or administrators /historians else that person is delusional - (In all the cases such people are children of Macaulay) - unfortunately for all these delusions the cure is not there - only that I can guarantee is that Samskritam is very much alive and active.

        Forth: We sure have over 25,000 PG level Samskritam scholars across the country - if only 10% of these get into teaching Samskritam to common people we can realize the dream of a Samskrita Rajyam (Samyak kritam Rajyam - well made country, like Samyak kritam = Samskritam) in just a couple of decades itself.

        Fifth: Even though lakhs knew Samskritam, the fundamental flaw is in the method of teaching. They have learnt Samskritam through another language and again they are imparting Samskritam through another language - this must be stopped immediately - best course of action is to pick up the Samskrita Bharati method of Teaching Samskritam using simple Samskritam itself
        - though some feel there are shortcomings in Samskrita Bharati method but till date it is the only proven system and widely used system of spoken Samskritam

        This message should have been written in Samskritam, yet written in English - unfortunately for the purpose of reaching more audience.
        After all these the obvious question - Why we need to learn Samskritam? – Many scientific reasons are there – you can visit my blog http://sanskritlinguistics.blogspot.in/ to read the articles or just a web search will give answers.


        Regards

        CG Krishnamurthi

         




        --
        Sharla

        Life is full if you open your eyes:
        Take joy where you find it.
      • <noufal@...>
        ... I m not sure how effective or useful this is. I studied Hindi as a second language for 10 years. I didn t particularly like the language and I had a less
        Message 3 of 14 , May 4, 2013
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          CG Krishnamurthi <cgkmurthi@...> writes:

          > We knew that over 26 university
          > campuses, 30+ Sanskrit colleges, etc. - if not please read one of my earlier
          > post in this forum - or you can visit my blog also where it is archived -
          > http://vartula.blogspot.in/
          >
          >
          >
          > Now over 20,000 CBSE /Metric schools across the
          > country offering Samskritam as 2nd /3rd
          > language - Over 20,00,000 students across the country opting to learn
          > Samskritam as 2nd /3rd language. 2 Daily newspapers and 4 monthly magazines and
          > 8 monthly /quarterly journals are in circulation in shuddha Samskritam

          I'm not sure how effective or useful this is. I studied Hindi as a
          second language for 10 years. I didn't particularly like the language
          and I had a less than pleasant experience with my teachers. I'm barely
          literate when it comes to Hindi now and whatever little I speak, I've
          picked up from street conversations with business people etc. rather
          than from school.

          It's a far more effective way to pick up conversational language than
          formal education.


          [...]

          > Samskritam flows out of people's (at least the karma krit's) mouth on
          > all auspicious occasions - Marriage, Pooja, Prayer, Festivals,
          > Ceremonies, etc.

          There are lots of people who don't use Sanskrit for their liturgies. It
          is, however, the language of the majority religious community but in
          that sense, it seems to me similar to Latin in Catholic
          nations. Everyone knows a few words and can throw out a few phrases but
          it's not reall *spoken* anymore.


          [...]


          > First: In India majority of the people speak in Urdu than Hindi
          > /Samskritam. The unfortunate situation is that, people use the lipi
          > but not the language. Many in South India can understand Hindi if only
          > the Hindi is spoken purely with words in the right side below and not
          > with the words from Urdu /Persian /Arabic. Some of the words that came
          > to mind are given below, with my limited Hindi (Urdu) knowledge!
          > Words on the right are indeed right !

          I'm not so sure. Words on the left are as right as the ones on the
          right. It's perfectly acceptable for someone to even prefer the words on
          the left. I myself can just barely manage Hindi so I don't really have
          an opinion.

          Maybe I'm misreading you but there seems to be undercurrent of a
          "pristine language" that needs to be revived and maintained free of
          influences. This is the sure way for a language to die. Something that
          doesn't change rapidly enough to keep upto date with the world and stay
          useful will die. It's one of the few things I like about English that
          it's perfectly acceptable to say things "chutneyfying presence" (as
          Salman Rushdie did). That ability to change and ignore the desire to
          remain pure is how things survive. In my opinion anyway.

          [...]

          > Many political forces want to keep people (us) uneducated - real
          > education has nothing to do with getting some English knowledge or
          > getting a degree. Without Samskriti (Culture) real Education is not
          > gained – only knowledge is gained. We have to consciously replace
          > Urdu/Parsi/Arabic words with Samskritam words - thus pan India people
          > will be able to understand each other, much better. As we have done by
          > introducing a language called in Hindi in 1930s – we need to bring
          > back Samskritam – for the benefit of the society.

          I see two problems. Replacing one (rather entrenched) language with
          another doesn't sound like the right thing to do. Human society,
          especially Indian society is not so narrow that the only way to make one
          language popular is to kill another one and take its place.

          The other problem is that you're saying that only by doing this
          repalcement, will "pan India people be able to understand each
          other". Most of the people in India already understand each with with
          the existing urdu/hindi/english mix that we speak. To institute a new
          language, not matter how ancient or elegant, so that we have a common
          form of communication sounds similar to the Esperanto experiment.


          > Second: It takes one-twentieth of the time to teach Samskritam to an
          > Indian in comparison with a foreigner - Samskritam is in our blood -
          > when are we going to wake-up to this truth?

          The question is need. I, for example, have a fascination with the
          language that's used in Mongolia. Not because I can read it or
          understand it. Heck, I don't even know what it's called. But I think
          that the script looks very beautiful. As someone who practices
          calligraphy, I'd be more inclined to learn that rather that Sanskrit.

          Of course, you could make it a "compulsory language" in schools so that
          kids learn it etc. but this *is* an alternative education forum so I
          don't know how effective that would be here. :)

          > Third: If anyone says Samskritam is a dead-language then that person
          > must have been brain-washed by our English worshiping elite and /or
          > administrators /historians else that person is delusional - (In all
          > the cases such people are children of Macaulay) - unfortunately for
          > all these delusions the cure is not there - only that I can guarantee
          > is that Samskritam is very much alive and active.

          I can't really comment on this. I daresay that outside of some academic
          and religious circles, it's not as popular as most other languages but
          this is just a feeling.

          > Forth: We sure have over 25,000 PG level Samskritam scholars across
          > the country - if only 10% of these get into teaching Samskritam to
          > common people we can realize the dream of a Samskrita Rajyam (Samyak
          > kritam Rajyam - well made country, like Samyak kritam = Samskritam) in
          > just a couple of decades itself.

          That's workable but only if the aad admi has sees value in learning the
          language.

          > Fifth: Even though lakhs knew Samskritam, the fundamental flaw is in
          > the method of teaching. They have learnt Samskritam through another
          > language and again they are imparting Samskritam through another
          > language - this must be stopped immediately - best course of action is
          > to pick up the Samskrita Bharati method of Teaching Samskritam using
          > simple Samskritam itself - though some feel there are shortcomings in
          > Samskrita Bharati method but till date it is the only proven system
          > and widely used system of spoken Samskritam

          I think I agree with this. It's usually the "medium" that gets learnt
          rather than the language itself. On the other hand, I had a score of
          Hindi teachers try to teach me Hindi using Hindi itself and I couldn't
          understand a thing. Didn't get very far.

          I'm not very particular about languages. I consider them tools. I'm as
          picky about which language to speak or write as I am about deciding
          whether I should use a screwdriver or hammer to drive something into a
          block of wood. Purely utilitarian. The more languages one knows, the
          better but this idea that "X is a better language than Y" doesn't agree
          with me. I much prefer the view that they're all part of human
          experience of communication and a multi language society with all it's
          misunderstandings, humour, communication gaps, and perhaps most
          importantly, cross language puns. is better than a mono culture with a
          single language that people are overly attached to. I think that
          investing time to teach people to think and express themselves in "any
          language" is better than touting a single one.


          [...]

          --
          Cordially,
          Noufal
          http://nibrahim.net.in
        • CG Krishnamurthi
          Interesting the way you have commented, these are some of ideas for reviving Samskritam. I ve nothing against any other language - but the common tread among
          Message 4 of 14 , May 5, 2013
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            Interesting the way you have commented, these are some of ideas for reviving Samskritam. I've nothing against any other language - but the common tread among people in Assam and Kerala was Samskritam. There were ideas exchanged and trade happened all over India in olden times through Samskritam as defacto  language. So it is my duty to remind people these facts as a linguistics researcher and as a lover of the language. If you keep using words that originated elsewhere, then at a deeper level you're moving away from your culture. I see culture as an all-pervading thing in daily life and language plays an integral role there. The connection between the language and psychology is another area of my interest.

            Everyone has the right to reject these ideas outright or take whatever suitable them. I am happy you voiced your opinion. I'm sure there are more opinions which are exactly opposite to mine. I have nothing for or against them. In fact I welcome them, only when more views emerge we get to see the big-picture better. Each view is a piece in a puzzle.

            Regards
            Krishnamurthi

            > From: noufal@nibrahim.net.in
            > To: cgkmurthi@hotmail.com
            > CC: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Samskrit - 2nd message on the status
            > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 11:29:28 +0530
            >
            > CG Krishnamurthi <cgkmurthi@hotmail.com> writes:
            >
            > > We knew that over 26 university
            > > campuses, 30+ Sanskrit colleges, etc. - if not please read one of my earlier
            > > post in this forum - or you can visit my blog also where it is archived -
            > > http://vartula.blogspot.in/
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Now over 20,000 CBSE /Metric schools across the
            > > country offering Samskritam as 2nd /3rd
            > > language - Over 20,00,000 students across the country opting to learn
            > > Samskritam as 2nd /3rd language. 2 Daily newspapers and 4 monthly magazines and
            > > 8 monthly /quarterly journals are in circulation in shuddha Samskritam
            >
            > I'm not sure how effective or useful this is. I studied Hindi as a
            > second language for 10 years. I didn't particularly like the language
            > and I had a less than pleasant experience with my teachers. I'm barely
            > literate when it comes to Hindi now and whatever little I speak, I've
            > picked up from street conversations with business people etc. rather
            > than from school.
            >
            > It's a far more effective way to pick up conversational language than
            > formal education.
            >
            >
            > [...]
            >
            > > Samskritam flows out of people's (at least the karma krit's) mouth on
            > > all auspicious occasions - Marriage, Pooja, Prayer, Festivals,
            > > Ceremonies, etc.
            >
            > There are lots of people who don't use Sanskrit for their liturgies. It
            > is, however, the language of the majority religious community but in
            > that sense, it seems to me similar to Latin in Catholic
            > nations. Everyone knows a few words and can throw out a few phrases but
            > it's not reall *spoken* anymore.
            >
            >
            > [...]
            >
            >
            > > First: In India majority of the people speak in Urdu than Hindi
            > > /Samskritam. The unfortunate situation is that, people use the lipi
            > > but not the language. Many in South India can understand Hindi if only
            > > the Hindi is spoken purely with words in the right side below and not
            > > with the words from Urdu /Persian /Arabic. Some of the words that came
            > > to mind are given below, with my limited Hindi (Urdu) knowledge!
            > > Words on the right are indeed right !
            >
            > I'm not so sure. Words on the left are as right as the ones on the
            > right. It's perfectly acceptable for someone to even prefer the words on
            > the left. I myself can just barely manage Hindi so I don't really have
            > an opinion.
            >
            > Maybe I'm misreading you but there seems to be undercurrent of a
            > "pristine language" that needs to be revived and maintained free of
            > influences. This is the sure way for a language to die. Something that
            > doesn't change rapidly enough to keep upto date with the world and stay
            > useful will die. It's one of the few things I like about English that
            > it's perfectly acceptable to say things "chutneyfying presence" (as
            > Salman Rushdie did). That ability to change and ignore the desire to
            > remain pure is how things survive. In my opinion anyway.
            >
            > [...]
            >
            > > Many political forces want to keep people (us) uneducated - real
            > > education has nothing to do with getting some English knowledge or
            > > getting a degree. Without Samskriti (Culture) real Education is not
            > > gained – only knowledge is gained. We have to consciously replace
            > > Urdu/Parsi/Arabic words with Samskritam words - thus pan India people
            > > will be able to understand each other, much better. As we have done by
            > > introducing a language called in Hindi in 1930s – we need to bring
            > > back Samskritam – for the benefit of the society.
            >
            > I see two problems. Replacing one (rather entrenched) language with
            > another doesn't sound like the right thing to do. Human society,
            > especially Indian society is not so narrow that the only way to make one
            > language popular is to kill another one and take its place.
            >
            > The other problem is that you're saying that only by doing this
            > repalcement, will "pan India people be able to understand each
            > other". Most of the people in India already understand each with with
            > the existing urdu/hindi/english mix that we speak. To institute a new
            > language, not matter how ancient or elegant, so that we have a common
            > form of communication sounds similar to the Esperanto experiment.
            >
            >
            > > Second: It takes one-twentieth of the time to teach Samskritam to an
            > > Indian in comparison with a foreigner - Samskritam is in our blood -
            > > when are we going to wake-up to this truth?
            >
            > The question is need. I, for example, have a fascination with the
            > language that's used in Mongolia. Not because I can read it or
            > understand it. Heck, I don't even know what it's called. But I think
            > that the script looks very beautiful. As someone who practices
            > calligraphy, I'd be more inclined to learn that rather that Sanskrit.
            >
            > Of course, you could make it a "compulsory language" in schools so that
            > kids learn it etc. but this *is* an alternative education forum so I
            > don't know how effective that would be here. :)
            >
            > > Third: If anyone says Samskritam is a dead-language then that person
            > > must have been brain-washed by our English worshiping elite and /or
            > > administrators /historians else that person is delusional - (In all
            > > the cases such people are children of Macaulay) - unfortunately for
            > > all these delusions the cure is not there - only that I can guarantee
            > > is that Samskritam is very much alive and active.
            >
            > I can't really comment on this. I daresay that outside of some academic
            > and religious circles, it's not as popular as most other languages but
            > this is just a feeling.
            >
            > > Forth: We sure have over 25,000 PG level Samskritam scholars across
            > > the country - if only 10% of these get into teaching Samskritam to
            > > common people we can realize the dream of a Samskrita Rajyam (Samyak
            > > kritam Rajyam - well made country, like Samyak kritam = Samskritam) in
            > > just a couple of decades itself.
            >
            > That's workable but only if the aad admi has sees value in learning the
            > language.
            >
            > > Fifth: Even though lakhs knew Samskritam, the fundamental flaw is in
            > > the method of teaching. They have learnt Samskritam through another
            > > language and again they are imparting Samskritam through another
            > > language - this must be stopped immediately - best course of action is
            > > to pick up the Samskrita Bharati method of Teaching Samskritam using
            > > simple Samskritam itself - though some feel there are shortcomings in
            > > Samskrita Bharati method but till date it is the only proven system
            > > and widely used system of spoken Samskritam
            >
            > I think I agree with this. It's usually the "medium" that gets learnt
            > rather than the language itself. On the other hand, I had a score of
            > Hindi teachers try to teach me Hindi using Hindi itself and I couldn't
            > understand a thing. Didn't get very far.
            >
            > I'm not very particular about languages. I consider them tools. I'm as
            > picky about which language to speak or write as I am about deciding
            > whether I should use a screwdriver or hammer to drive something into a
            > block of wood. Purely utilitarian. The more languages one knows, the
            > better but this idea that "X is a better language than Y" doesn't agree
            > with me. I much prefer the view that they're all part of human
            > experience of communication and a multi language society with all it's
            > misunderstandings, humour, communication gaps, and perhaps most
            > importantly, cross language puns. is better than a mono culture with a
            > single language that people are overly attached to. I think that
            > investing time to teach people to think and express themselves in "any
            > language" is better than touting a single one.
            >
            >
            > [...]
            >
            > --
            > Cordially,
            > Noufal
            > http://nibrahim.net.in
          • <noufal@...>
            ... I think you re right. A common language is a useful thing when it comes to exchange of ideas. The internet has had a similar effect on societies these
            Message 5 of 14 , May 5, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              CG Krishnamurthi <cgkmurthi@...> writes:

              > Interesting the way you have commented, these are some of ideas for
              > reviving Samskritam. I've nothing against any other language - but the
              > common tread among people in Assam and Kerala was Samskritam. There
              > were ideas exchanged and trade happened all over India in olden times
              > through Samskritam as defacto language.

              I think you're right. A common language is a useful thing when it comes
              to exchange of ideas. The internet has had a similar effect on societies
              these days. When a kid in India can talk to an adult in the US about a
              Korean pop song within days of it's release, you can't but marvel at the
              power of the network. It's cut across societies, languages and
              cultures.


              > So it is my duty to remind people these facts as a linguistics
              > researcher and as a lover of the language. If you keep using words
              > that originated elsewhere, then at a deeper level you're moving away
              > from your culture. I see culture as an all-pervading thing in daily
              > life and language plays an integral role there.

              I think so but I have a much more fluid concept of culture. I see it as
              continuously evolving. Not some perfect thing that existed at some time
              which we get nostalgic about and try to go back to. Languages get
              replaced, ideas get replaced, new ideas come in, old ideas get
              modified. That living changing thing is culture. Atleast for me.


              [...]


              > Everyone has the right to reject these ideas outright or take whatever
              > suitable them. I am happy you voiced your opinion. I'm sure there are
              > more opinions which are exactly opposite to mine. I have nothing for
              > or against them. In fact I welcome them, only when more views emerge
              > we get to see the big-picture better. Each view is a piece in a
              > puzzle.

              Yup. Takes all kinds to make a world. Thanks for your thoughts.

              [...]


              --
              Cordially,
              Noufal
              http://nibrahim.net.in
            • Viswanathan Vijaya
              My family has embarked on a path that may be new to Indian-American families but is quite familiar to the American education system - Homeschooling or
              Message 6 of 14 , May 5, 2013
              • 0 Attachment

                My family has embarked on a path that may be new to Indian-American families but is quite familiar to the American education system - Homeschooling or “gRuha-pAThashAlA” as we would like to call it.   Many people homeschool for various reasons including (but not limited to) the pursuit of a religious education, a classical education, or a special education.  Samskritam has been part of our curriculum and as a family we have reaped the benefits. 

                Among some pros poineted out by Mr. Krishnamurthi, the study of Samskritam grammar has also improved their understanding of English grammar.  When studying a new passage, my kids analyze word and sentence structure, automatically comparing it to the English language to try to find similarities or differences between the two languages; the precision Samskritam teaches has helped to analytically and systematically evaluate literature. These are important skills that are applicable to many other subjects are well.

                Currently, my ten year old is studying "Raghuvamsha" and is able to get a glimpse of the genius of Kalidasa. He is subtly exposed to etymology, poetic meter, and the study of compound word structures.   He gets to revel in the beauty of the numerous metaphors used by the Mahakavi, thus getting a peek into one of the highest artistic and intellectual minds of all time.

                Works in Samskritam have set exceedingly high standards for poetry, philosophy, literature, and drama.  They imbue the  mind with ideas of beauty, morality, and logic.  It is indeed a pity that in India we have lost the tradition of learning Samskritam during the early childhood years, especially given the vast repository of intellectual ideas that are embedded  within the language.

                Samskritam imparts an intellectual discipline that is unsurpassed and the study of Samskritam will provide a solid base, teaching our children critical thinking and systematic analysis, along with the wisdom and ideals of our forefathers.

                my two cents
                Harih OM
                Vijaya Viswanathan

                विजया विश्वनाथन्

                On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 8:58 AM, CG Krishnamurthi <cgkmurthi@...> wrote:
                 

                Interesting the way you have commented, these are some of ideas for reviving Samskritam. I've nothing against any other language - but the common tread among people in Assam and Kerala was Samskritam. There were ideas exchanged and trade happened all over India in olden times through Samskritam as defacto  language. So it is my duty to remind people these facts as a linguistics researcher and as a lover of the language. If you keep using words that originated elsewhere, then at a deeper level you're moving away from your culture. I see culture as an all-pervading thing in daily life and language plays an integral role there. The connection between the language and psychology is another area of my interest.

                Everyone has the right to reject these ideas outright or take whatever suitable them. I am happy you voiced your opinion. I'm sure there are more opinions which are exactly opposite to mine. I have nothing for or against them. In fact I welcome them, only when more views emerge we get to see the big-picture better. Each view is a piece in a puzzle.

                Regards
                Krishnamurthi

                > From: noufal@...
                > To: cgkmurthi@...
                > CC: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Samskrit - 2nd message on the status
                > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 11:29:28 +0530
                >
                > CG Krishnamurthi <cgkmurthi@...> writes:
                >
                > > We knew that over 26 university
                > > campuses, 30+ Sanskrit colleges, etc. - if not please read one of my earlier
                > > post in this forum - or you can visit my blog also where it is archived -
                > > http://vartula.blogspot.in/
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Now over 20,000 CBSE /Metric schools across the
                > > country offering Samskritam as 2nd /3rd
                > > language - Over 20,00,000 students across the country opting to learn
                > > Samskritam as 2nd /3rd language. 2 Daily newspapers and 4 monthly magazines and
                > > 8 monthly /quarterly journals are in circulation in shuddha Samskritam
                >
                > I'm not sure how effective or useful this is. I studied Hindi as a
                > second language for 10 years. I didn't particularly like the language
                > and I had a less than pleasant experience with my teachers. I'm barely
                > literate when it comes to Hindi now and whatever little I speak, I've
                > picked up from street conversations with business people etc. rather
                > than from school.
                >
                > It's a far more effective way to pick up conversational language than
                > formal education.
                >
                >
                > [...]
                >
                > > Samskritam flows out of people's (at least the karma krit's) mouth on
                > > all auspicious occasions - Marriage, Pooja, Prayer, Festivals,
                > > Ceremonies, etc.
                >
                > There are lots of people who don't use Sanskrit for their liturgies. It
                > is, however, the language of the majority religious community but in
                > that sense, it seems to me similar to Latin in Catholic
                > nations. Everyone knows a few words and can throw out a few phrases but
                > it's not reall *spoken* anymore.
                >
                >
                > [...]
                >
                >
                > > First: In India majority of the people speak in Urdu than Hindi
                > > /Samskritam. The unfortunate situation is that, people use the lipi
                > > but not the language. Many in South India can understand Hindi if only
                > > the Hindi is spoken purely with words in the right side below and not
                > > with the words from Urdu /Persian /Arabic. Some of the words that came
                > > to mind are given below, with my limited Hindi (Urdu) knowledge!
                > > Words on the right are indeed right !
                >
                > I'm not so sure. Words on the left are as right as the ones on the
                > right. It's perfectly acceptable for someone to even prefer the words on
                > the left. I myself can just barely manage Hindi so I don't really have
                > an opinion.
                >
                > Maybe I'm misreading you but there seems to be undercurrent of a
                > "pristine language" that needs to be revived and maintained free of
                > influences. This is the sure way for a language to die. Something that
                > doesn't change rapidly enough to keep upto date with the world and stay
                > useful will die. It's one of the few things I like about English that
                > it's perfectly acceptable to say things "chutneyfying presence" (as
                > Salman Rushdie did). That ability to change and ignore the desire to
                > remain pure is how things survive. In my opinion anyway.
                >
                > [...]
                >
                > > Many political forces want to keep people (us) uneducated - real
                > > education has nothing to do with getting some English knowledge or
                > > getting a degree. Without Samskriti (Culture) real Education is not
                > > gained – only knowledge is gained. We have to consciously replace
                > > Urdu/Parsi/Arabic words with Samskritam words - thus pan India people
                > > will be able to understand each other, much better. As we have done by
                > > introducing a language called in Hindi in 1930s – we need to bring
                > > back Samskritam – for the benefit of the society.
                >
                > I see two problems. Replacing one (rather entrenched) language with
                > another doesn't sound like the right thing to do. Human society,
                > especially Indian society is not so narrow that the only way to make one
                > language popular is to kill another one and take its place.
                >
                > The other problem is that you're saying that only by doing this
                > repalcement, will "pan India people be able to understand each
                > other". Most of the people in India already understand each with with
                > the existing urdu/hindi/english mix that we speak. To institute a new
                > language, not matter how ancient or elegant, so that we have a common
                > form of communication sounds similar to the Esperanto experiment.
                >
                >
                > > Second: It takes one-twentieth of the time to teach Samskritam to an
                > > Indian in comparison with a foreigner - Samskritam is in our blood -
                > > when are we going to wake-up to this truth?
                >
                > The question is need. I, for example, have a fascination with the
                > language that's used in Mongolia. Not because I can read it or
                > understand it. Heck, I don't even know what it's called. But I think
                > that the script looks very beautiful. As someone who practices
                > calligraphy, I'd be more inclined to learn that rather that Sanskrit.
                >
                > Of course, you could make it a "compulsory language" in schools so that
                > kids learn it etc. but this *is* an alternative education forum so I
                > don't know how effective that would be here. :)
                >
                > > Third: If anyone says Samskritam is a dead-language then that person
                > > must have been brain-washed by our English worshiping elite and /or
                > > administrators /historians else that person is delusional - (In all
                > > the cases such people are children of Macaulay) - unfortunately for
                > > all these delusions the cure is not there - only that I can guarantee
                > > is that Samskritam is very much alive and active.
                >
                > I can't really comment on this. I daresay that outside of some academic
                > and religious circles, it's not as popular as most other languages but
                > this is just a feeling.
                >
                > > Forth: We sure have over 25,000 PG level Samskritam scholars across
                > > the country - if only 10% of these get into teaching Samskritam to
                > > common people we can realize the dream of a Samskrita Rajyam (Samyak
                > > kritam Rajyam - well made country, like Samyak kritam = Samskritam) in
                > > just a couple of decades itself.
                >
                > That's workable but only if the aad admi has sees value in learning the
                > language.
                >
                > > Fifth: Even though lakhs knew Samskritam, the fundamental flaw is in
                > > the method of teaching. They have learnt Samskritam through another
                > > language and again they are imparting Samskritam through another
                > > language - this must be stopped immediately - best course of action is
                > > to pick up the Samskrita Bharati method of Teaching Samskritam using
                > > simple Samskritam itself - though some feel there are shortcomings in
                > > Samskrita Bharati method but till date it is the only proven system
                > > and widely used system of spoken Samskritam
                >
                > I think I agree with this. It's usually the "medium" that gets learnt
                > rather than the language itself. On the other hand, I had a score of
                > Hindi teachers try to teach me Hindi using Hindi itself and I couldn't
                > understand a thing. Didn't get very far.
                >
                > I'm not very particular about languages. I consider them tools. I'm as
                > picky about which language to speak or write as I am about deciding
                > whether I should use a screwdriver or hammer to drive something into a
                > block of wood. Purely utilitarian. The more languages one knows, the
                > better but this idea that "X is a better language than Y" doesn't agree
                > with me. I much prefer the view that they're all part of human
                > experience of communication and a multi language society with all it's
                > misunderstandings, humour, communication gaps, and perhaps most
                > importantly, cross language puns. is better than a mono culture with a
                > single language that people are overly attached to. I think that
                > investing time to teach people to think and express themselves in "any
                > language" is better than touting a single one.
                >
                >
                > [...]
                >
                > --
                > Cordially,
                > Noufal
                > http://nibrahim.net.in




                --
                विजया विश्वनाथन्
              • Shishir Kant Misra
                Vijay, A good efforts that. If you introduce German to your children, you will be amazed how fast they pick it up as they already know sanskrit. [ Yes, we
                Message 7 of 14 , May 5, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Vijay,
                  A good efforts that.
                  If you introduce German to your children, you will be amazed how fast they pick it up as they already know sanskrit. [ Yes, we north Indians call is that] I had posted earlier that I stopped studying Sanskrit about 55 yrs ago but when I started to learn German,in 1965, I found its great similarity with sanskrit. Perhaps my knowledge of Sanskrit still fresh then was very helpful.

                  Keep Smiling not becuz of something,
                  But INSPITE of every thing
                  Shishir
                  ( Shishir Kant Misra )

                  --- On Sun, 5/5/13, Viswanathan Vijaya <vijaya.asv@...> wrote:

                  From: Viswanathan Vijaya <vijaya.asv@...>
                  Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Samskrit - 2nd message on the status
                  To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Sunday, 5 May, 2013, 11:21 AM

                   
                  My family has embarked on a path that may be new to Indian-American families but is quite familiar to the American education system - Homeschooling or “gRuha-pAThashAlA” as we would like to call it.   Many people homeschool for various reasons including (but not limited to) the pursuit of a religious education, a classical education, or a special education.  Samskritam has been part of our curriculum and as a family we have reaped the benefits. 
                  Among some pros poineted out by Mr. Krishnamurthi, the study of Samskritam grammar has also improved their understanding of English grammar.  When studying a new passage, my kids analyze word and sentence structure, automatically comparing it to the English language to try to find similarities or differences between the two languages; the precision Samskritam teaches has helped to analytically and systematically evaluate literature. These are important skills that are applicable to many other subjects are well.
                  Currently, my ten year old is studying "Raghuvamsha" and is able to get a glimpse of the genius of Kalidasa. He is subtly exposed to etymology, poetic meter, and the study of compound word structures.   He gets to revel in the beauty of the numerous metaphors used by the Mahakavi, thus getting a peek into one of the highest artistic and intellectual minds of all time.
                  Works in Samskritam have set exceedingly high standards for poetry, philosophy, literature, and drama.  They imbue the  mind with ideas of beauty, morality, and logic.  It is indeed a pity that in India we have lost the tradition of learning Samskritam during the early childhood years, especially given the vast repository of intellectual ideas that are embedded  within the language.
                  Samskritam imparts an intellectual discipline that is unsurpassed and the study of Samskritam will provide a solid base, teaching our children critical thinking and systematic analysis, along with the wisdom and ideals of our forefathers.
                  my two cents
                  Harih OM
                  Vijaya Viswanathan

                  विजया विश्वनाथन्

                  On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 8:58 AM, CG Krishnamurthi <cgkmurthi@...> wrote:
                   
                  Interesting the way you have commented, these are some of ideas for reviving Samskritam. I've nothing against any other language - but the common tread among people in Assam and Kerala was Samskritam. There were ideas exchanged and trade happened all over India in olden times through Samskritam as defacto  language. So it is my duty to remind people these facts as a linguistics researcher and as a lover of the language. If you keep using words that originated elsewhere, then at a deeper level you're moving away from your culture. I see culture as an all-pervading thing in daily life and language plays an integral role there. The connection between the language and psychology is another area of my interest.

                  Everyone has the right to reject these ideas outright or take whatever suitable them. I am happy you voiced your opinion. I'm sure there are more opinions which are exactly opposite to mine. I have nothing for or against them. In fact I welcome them, only when more views emerge we get to see the big-picture better. Each view is a piece in a puzzle.

                  Regards
                  Krishnamurthi

                  > From: noufal@...
                  > To: cgkmurthi@...
                  > CC: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Samskrit - 2nd message on the status
                  > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 11:29:28 +0530
                  >
                  > CG Krishnamurthi <cgkmurthi@...> writes:
                  >
                  > > We knew that over 26 university
                  > > campuses, 30+ Sanskrit colleges, etc. - if not please read one of my earlier
                  > > post in this forum - or you can visit my blog also where it is archived -
                  > > http://vartula.blogspot.in/
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Now over 20,000 CBSE /Metric schools across the
                  > > country offering Samskritam as 2nd /3rd
                  > > language - Over 20,00,000 students across the country opting to learn
                  > > Samskritam as 2nd /3rd language. 2 Daily newspapers and 4 monthly magazines and
                  > > 8 monthly /quarterly journals are in circulation in shuddha Samskritam
                  >
                  > I'm not sure how effective or useful this is. I studied Hindi as a
                  > second language for 10 years. I didn't particularly like the language
                  > and I had a less than pleasant experience with my teachers. I'm barely
                  > literate when it comes to Hindi now and whatever little I speak, I've
                  > picked up from street conversations with business people etc. rather
                  > than from school.
                  >
                  > It's a far more effective way to pick up conversational language than
                  > formal education.
                  >
                  >
                  > [...]
                  >
                  > > Samskritam flows out of people's (at least the karma krit's) mouth on
                  > > all auspicious occasions - Marriage, Pooja, Prayer, Festivals,
                  > > Ceremonies, etc.
                  >
                  > There are lots of people who don't use Sanskrit for their liturgies. It
                  > is, however, the language of the majority religious community but in
                  > that sense, it seems to me similar to Latin in Catholic
                  > nations. Everyone knows a few words and can throw out a few phrases but
                  > it's not reall *spoken* anymore.
                  >
                  >
                  > [...]
                  >
                  >
                  > > First: In India majority of the people speak in Urdu than Hindi
                  > > /Samskritam. The unfortunate situation is that, people use the lipi
                  > > but not the language. Many in South India can understand Hindi if only
                  > > the Hindi is spoken purely with words in the right side below and not
                  > > with the words from Urdu /Persian /Arabic. Some of the words that came
                  > > to mind are given below, with my limited Hindi (Urdu) knowledge!
                  > > Words on the right are indeed right !
                  >
                  > I'm not so sure. Words on the left are as right as the ones on the
                  > right. It's perfectly acceptable for someone to even prefer the words on
                  > the left. I myself can just barely manage Hindi so I don't really have
                  > an opinion.
                  >
                  > Maybe I'm misreading you but there seems to be undercurrent of a
                  > "pristine language" that needs to be revived and maintained free of
                  > influences. This is the sure way for a language to die. Something that
                  > doesn't change rapidly enough to keep upto date with the world and stay
                  > useful will die. It's one of the few things I like about English that
                  > it's perfectly acceptable to say things "chutneyfying presence" (as
                  > Salman Rushdie did). That ability to change and ignore the desire to
                  > remain pure is how things survive. In my opinion anyway.
                  >
                  > [...]
                  >
                  > > Many political forces want to keep people (us) uneducated - real
                  > > education has nothing to do with getting some English knowledge or
                  > > getting a degree. Without Samskriti (Culture) real Education is not
                  > > gained – only knowledge is gained. We have to consciously replace
                  > > Urdu/Parsi/Arabic words with Samskritam words - thus pan India people
                  > > will be able to understand each other, much better. As we have done by
                  > > introducing a language called in Hindi in 1930s – we need to bring
                  > > back Samskritam – for the benefit of the society.
                  >
                  > I see two problems. Replacing one (rather entrenched) language with
                  > another doesn't sound like the right thing to do. Human society,
                  > especially Indian society is not so narrow that the only way to make one
                  > language popular is to kill another one and take its place.
                  >
                  > The other problem is that you're saying that only by doing this
                  > repalcement, will "pan India people be able to understand each
                  > other". Most of the people in India already understand each with with
                  > the existing urdu/hindi/english mix that we speak. To institute a new
                  > language, not matter how ancient or elegant, so that we have a common
                  > form of communication sounds similar to the Esperanto experiment.
                  >
                  >
                  > > Second: It takes one-twentieth of the time to teach Samskritam to an
                  > > Indian in comparison with a foreigner - Samskritam is in our blood -
                  > > when are we going to wake-up to this truth?
                  >
                  > The question is need. I, for example, have a fascination with the
                  > language that's used in Mongolia. Not because I can read it or
                  > understand it. Heck, I don't even know what it's called. But I think
                  > that the script looks very beautiful. As someone who practices
                  > calligraphy, I'd be more inclined to learn that rather that Sanskrit.
                  >
                  > Of course, you could make it a "compulsory language" in schools so that
                  > kids learn it etc. but this *is* an alternative education forum so I
                  > don't know how effective that would be here. :)
                  >
                  > > Third: If anyone says Samskritam is a dead-language then that person
                  > > must have been brain-washed by our English worshiping elite and /or
                  > > administrators /historians else that person is delusional - (In all
                  > > the cases such people are children of Macaulay) - unfortunately for
                  > > all these delusions the cure is not there - only that I can guarantee
                  > > is that Samskritam is very much alive and active.
                  >
                  > I can't really comment on this. I daresay that outside of some academic
                  > and religious circles, it's not as popular as most other languages but
                  > this is just a feeling.
                  >
                  > > Forth: We sure have over 25,000 PG level Samskritam scholars across
                  > > the country - if only 10% of these get into teaching Samskritam to
                  > > common people we can realize the dream of a Samskrita Rajyam (Samyak
                  > > kritam Rajyam - well made country, like Samyak kritam = Samskritam) in
                  > > just a couple of decades itself.
                  >
                  > That's workable but only if the aad admi has sees value in learning the
                  > language.
                  >
                  > > Fifth: Even though lakhs knew Samskritam, the fundamental flaw is in
                  > > the method of teaching. They have learnt Samskritam through another
                  > > language and again they are imparting Samskritam through another
                  > > language - this must be stopped immediately - best course of action is
                  > > to pick up the Samskrita Bharati method of Teaching Samskritam using
                  > > simple Samskritam itself - though some feel there are shortcomings in
                  > > Samskrita Bharati method but till date it is the only proven system
                  > > and widely used system of spoken Samskritam
                  >
                  > I think I agree with this. It's usually the "medium" that gets learnt
                  > rather than the language itself. On the other hand, I had a score of
                  > Hindi teachers try to teach me Hindi using Hindi itself and I couldn't
                  > understand a thing. Didn't get very far.
                  >
                  > I'm not very particular about languages. I consider them tools. I'm as
                  > picky about which language to speak or write as I am about deciding
                  > whether I should use a screwdriver or hammer to drive something into a
                  > block of wood. Purely utilitarian. The more languages one knows, the
                  > better but this idea that "X is a better language than Y" doesn't agree
                  > with me. I much prefer the view that they're all part of human
                  > experience of communication and a multi language society with all it's
                  > misunderstandings, humour, communication gaps, and perhaps most
                  > importantly, cross language puns. is better than a mono culture with a
                  > single language that people are overly attached to. I think that
                  > investing time to teach people to think and express themselves in "any
                  > language" is better than touting a single one.
                  >
                  >
                  > [...]
                  >
                  > --
                  > Cordially,
                  > Noufal
                  > http://nibrahim.net.in



                  --
                  विजया विश्वनाथन्
                • विनीश गुप्ता Vinish
                  This recent article in *The Hindu* should serve to provide much needed edification to certain members of this list:
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 27, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    This recent article in The Hindu should serve to provide much needed edification to certain members of this list:
                    http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/stories-they-tell-about-languages/article4747023.ece

                    Best.

                    Vinish



                    --
                    Centre for Holistic Learning
                    Jeevanshala Trust,
                    "Nagalaxmi", Hulekal Village,
                    Sirsi-581336. Karnataka. India.
                    Tel: 08283-240147.
                    Cell: +91.8762071817

                    http://www.jeevanshala.org/



                    On 5 May 2013 20:48, Shishir Kant Misra <eskaym@...> wrote:
                     

                    Vijay,
                    A good efforts that.
                    If you introduce German to your children, you will be amazed how fast they pick it up as they already know sanskrit. [ Yes, we north Indians call is that] I had posted earlier that I stopped studying Sanskrit about 55 yrs ago but when I started to learn German,in 1965, I found its great similarity with sanskrit. Perhaps my knowledge of Sanskrit still fresh then was very helpful.


                    Keep Smiling not becuz of something,
                    But INSPITE of every thing
                    Shishir
                    ( Shishir Kant Misra )

                    --- On Sun, 5/5/13, Viswanathan Vijaya <vijaya.asv@...> wrote:

                    From: Viswanathan Vijaya <vijaya.asv@...>

                    Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Samskrit - 2nd message on the status
                    To: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sunday, 5 May, 2013, 11:21 AM


                     
                    My family has embarked on a path that may be new to Indian-American families but is quite familiar to the American education system - Homeschooling or “gRuha-pAThashAlA” as we would like to call it.   Many people homeschool for various reasons including (but not limited to) the pursuit of a religious education, a classical education, or a special education.  Samskritam has been part of our curriculum and as a family we have reaped the benefits. 
                    Among some pros poineted out by Mr. Krishnamurthi, the study of Samskritam grammar has also improved their understanding of English grammar.  When studying a new passage, my kids analyze word and sentence structure, automatically comparing it to the English language to try to find similarities or differences between the two languages; the precision Samskritam teaches has helped to analytically and systematically evaluate literature. These are important skills that are applicable to many other subjects are well.
                    Currently, my ten year old is studying "Raghuvamsha" and is able to get a glimpse of the genius of Kalidasa. He is subtly exposed to etymology, poetic meter, and the study of compound word structures.   He gets to revel in the beauty of the numerous metaphors used by the Mahakavi, thus getting a peek into one of the highest artistic and intellectual minds of all time.
                    Works in Samskritam have set exceedingly high standards for poetry, philosophy, literature, and drama.  They imbue the  mind with ideas of beauty, morality, and logic.  It is indeed a pity that in India we have lost the tradition of learning Samskritam during the early childhood years, especially given the vast repository of intellectual ideas that are embedded  within the language.
                    Samskritam imparts an intellectual discipline that is unsurpassed and the study of Samskritam will provide a solid base, teaching our children critical thinking and systematic analysis, along with the wisdom and ideals of our forefathers.
                    my two cents
                    Harih OM
                    Vijaya Viswanathan

                    विजया विश्वनाथन्

                    On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 8:58 AM, CG Krishnamurthi <cgkmurthi@...> wrote:
                     
                    Interesting the way you have commented, these are some of ideas for reviving Samskritam. I've nothing against any other language - but the common tread among people in Assam and Kerala was Samskritam. There were ideas exchanged and trade happened all over India in olden times through Samskritam as defacto  language. So it is my duty to remind people these facts as a linguistics researcher and as a lover of the language. If you keep using words that originated elsewhere, then at a deeper level you're moving away from your culture. I see culture as an all-pervading thing in daily life and language plays an integral role there. The connection between the language and psychology is another area of my interest.

                    Everyone has the right to reject these ideas outright or take whatever suitable them. I am happy you voiced your opinion. I'm sure there are more opinions which are exactly opposite to mine. I have nothing for or against them. In fact I welcome them, only when more views emerge we get to see the big-picture better. Each view is a piece in a puzzle.

                    Regards
                    Krishnamurthi

                    > From: noufal@...
                    > To: cgkmurthi@...
                    > CC: alt-ed-india@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [alt-ed-india] Samskrit - 2nd message on the status
                    > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 11:29:28 +0530
                    >
                    > CG Krishnamurthi <cgkmurthi@...> writes:
                    >
                    > > We knew that over 26 university
                    > > campuses, 30+ Sanskrit colleges, etc. - if not please read one of my earlier
                    > > post in this forum - or you can visit my blog also where it is archived -
                    > > http://vartula.blogspot.in/
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Now over 20,000 CBSE /Metric schools across the
                    > > country offering Samskritam as 2nd /3rd
                    > > language - Over 20,00,000 students across the country opting to learn
                    > > Samskritam as 2nd /3rd language. 2 Daily newspapers and 4 monthly magazines and
                    > > 8 monthly /quarterly journals are in circulation in shuddha Samskritam
                    >
                    > I'm not sure how effective or useful this is. I studied Hindi as a
                    > second language for 10 years. I didn't particularly like the language
                    > and I had a less than pleasant experience with my teachers. I'm barely
                    > literate when it comes to Hindi now and whatever little I speak, I've
                    > picked up from street conversations with business people etc. rather
                    > than from school.
                    >
                    > It's a far more effective way to pick up conversational language than
                    > formal education.
                    >
                    >
                    > [...]
                    >
                    > > Samskritam flows out of people's (at least the karma krit's) mouth on
                    > > all auspicious occasions - Marriage, Pooja, Prayer, Festivals,
                    > > Ceremonies, etc.
                    >
                    > There are lots of people who don't use Sanskrit for their liturgies. It
                    > is, however, the language of the majority religious community but in
                    > that sense, it seems to me similar to Latin in Catholic
                    > nations. Everyone knows a few words and can throw out a few phrases but
                    > it's not reall *spoken* anymore.
                    >
                    >
                    > [...]
                    >
                    >
                    > > First: In India majority of the people speak in Urdu than Hindi
                    > > /Samskritam. The unfortunate situation is that, people use the lipi
                    > > but not the language. Many in South India can understand Hindi if only
                    > > the Hindi is spoken purely with words in the right side below and not
                    > > with the words from Urdu /Persian /Arabic. Some of the words that came
                    > > to mind are given below, with my limited Hindi (Urdu) knowledge!
                    > > Words on the right are indeed right !
                    >
                    > I'm not so sure. Words on the left are as right as the ones on the
                    > right. It's perfectly acceptable for someone to even prefer the words on
                    > the left. I myself can just barely manage Hindi so I don't really have
                    > an opinion.
                    >
                    > Maybe I'm misreading you but there seems to be undercurrent of a
                    > "pristine language" that needs to be revived and maintained free of
                    > influences. This is the sure way for a language to die. Something that
                    > doesn't change rapidly enough to keep upto date with the world and stay
                    > useful will die. It's one of the few things I like about English that
                    > it's perfectly acceptable to say things "chutneyfying presence" (as
                    > Salman Rushdie did). That ability to change and ignore the desire to
                    > remain pure is how things survive. In my opinion anyway.
                    >
                    > [...]
                    >
                    > > Many political forces want to keep people (us) uneducated - real
                    > > education has nothing to do with getting some English knowledge or
                    > > getting a degree. Without Samskriti (Culture) real Education is not
                    > > gained – only knowledge is gained. We have to consciously replace
                    > > Urdu/Parsi/Arabic words with Samskritam words - thus pan India people
                    > > will be able to understand each other, much better. As we have done by
                    > > introducing a language called in Hindi in 1930s – we need to bring
                    > > back Samskritam – for the benefit of the society.
                    >
                    > I see two problems. Replacing one (rather entrenched) language with
                    > another doesn't sound like the right thing to do. Human society,
                    > especially Indian society is not so narrow that the only way to make one
                    > language popular is to kill another one and take its place.
                    >
                    > The other problem is that you're saying that only by doing this
                    > repalcement, will "pan India people be able to understand each
                    > other". Most of the people in India already understand each with with
                    > the existing urdu/hindi/english mix that we speak. To institute a new
                    > language, not matter how ancient or elegant, so that we have a common
                    > form of communication sounds similar to the Esperanto experiment.
                    >
                    >
                    > > Second: It takes one-twentieth of the time to teach Samskritam to an
                    > > Indian in comparison with a foreigner - Samskritam is in our blood -
                    > > when are we going to wake-up to this truth?
                    >
                    > The question is need. I, for example, have a fascination with the
                    > language that's used in Mongolia. Not because I can read it or
                    > understand it. Heck, I don't even know what it's called. But I think
                    > that the script looks very beautiful. As someone who practices
                    > calligraphy, I'd be more inclined to learn that rather that Sanskrit.
                    >
                    > Of course, you could make it a "compulsory language" in schools so that
                    > kids learn it etc. but this *is* an alternative education forum so I
                    > don't know how effective that would be here. :)
                    >
                    > > Third: If anyone says Samskritam is a dead-language then that person
                    > > must have been brain-washed by our English worshiping elite and /or
                    > > administrators /historians else that person is delusional - (In all
                    > > the cases such people are children of Macaulay) - unfortunately for
                    > > all these delusions the cure is not there - only that I can guarantee
                    > > is that Samskritam is very much alive and active.
                    >
                    > I can't really comment on this. I daresay that outside of some academic
                    > and religious circles, it's not as popular as most other languages but
                    > this is just a feeling.
                    >
                    > > Forth: We sure have over 25,000 PG level Samskritam scholars across
                    > > the country - if only 10% of these get into teaching Samskritam to
                    > > common people we can realize the dream of a Samskrita Rajyam (Samyak
                    > > kritam Rajyam - well made country, like Samyak kritam = Samskritam) in
                    > > just a couple of decades itself.
                    >
                    > That's workable but only if the aad admi has sees value in learning the
                    > language.
                    >
                    > > Fifth: Even though lakhs knew Samskritam, the fundamental flaw is in
                    > > the method of teaching. They have learnt Samskritam through another
                    > > language and again they are imparting Samskritam through another
                    > > language - this must be stopped immediately - best course of action is
                    > > to pick up the Samskrita Bharati method of Teaching Samskritam using
                    > > simple Samskritam itself - though some feel there are shortcomings in
                    > > Samskrita Bharati method but till date it is the only proven system
                    > > and widely used system of spoken Samskritam
                    >
                    > I think I agree with this. It's usually the "medium" that gets learnt
                    > rather than the language itself. On the other hand, I had a score of
                    > Hindi teachers try to teach me Hindi using Hindi itself and I couldn't
                    > understand a thing. Didn't get very far.
                    >
                    > I'm not very particular about languages. I consider them tools. I'm as
                    > picky about which language to speak or write as I am about deciding
                    > whether I should use a screwdriver or hammer to drive something into a
                    > block of wood. Purely utilitarian. The more languages one knows, the
                    > better but this idea that "X is a better language than Y" doesn't agree
                    > with me. I much prefer the view that they're all part of human
                    > experience of communication and a multi language society with all it's
                    > misunderstandings, humour, communication gaps, and perhaps most
                    > importantly, cross language puns. is better than a mono culture with a
                    > single language that people are overly attached to. I think that
                    > investing time to teach people to think and express themselves in "any
                    > language" is better than touting a single one.
                    >
                    >
                    > [...]
                    >
                    > --
                    > Cordially,
                    > Noufal
                    > http://nibrahim.net.in



                    --
                    विजया विश्वनाथन्



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