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Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

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  • Allison Loukanis
    No I disagree...there was an article accompanied by photos of ancient temple offerings that depict both a male and female in BAR.. I will see if I can find it
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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      No I disagree...there was an article accompanied by photos of ancient temple offerings that depict both a male and female in BAR.. I will see if I can find it and post it. Women were once worshipped too. Don't tell me you feel threatened by the presence of a female counterpart? hmmm? I mean, why not? The Catholic Church has only been around 2000 plus years.... and previous religions for 20 or 30 thousand years. Look at the Venus figurines....they span an enormous amount of time. Maybe God only had a wife for a short time.. maybe she was edited out by patriarchal old goats who were threatened by women... and tried desperately to keep women downtrodden and disenfranchised. Allison


      From: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...>
      To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 10:10:32 PM
      Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

       

      This is beyond stupid...... this was a heathen pagan god introduced into the temple as oft happened during the history of the First Temple.... no news bulletin here other than the vapid and vacuous assertions of this pseudo-intellectual trying desperately to come up with an angle in order to garner attention.... and succeeding!

      Kimmer

      On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, <robert-blau@...> wrote:
       

      Make the story and its significance fairly clear . . .

      God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible -- Almost
      Discovery News [USA], Mar 18, 2011

      God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped
      alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford
      scholar. In 1967, Raphael Patai was the first historian to mention that
      the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah. The theory has
      gained new prominence due to the research of Francesca Stavrakopoulou,
      who began her work at Oxford and is now a senior lecturer in the
      department of Theology and Religion at the University of Exeter. "After
      years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel,
      however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some,
      uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added. J. Edward
      Wright, president of both The Arizona Center for Judaic Studies and The
      Albright Institute for Archaeological Research, told Discovery News that
      he agrees several Hebrew inscriptions mention "Yahweh and his Asherah."
      "Asherah was not entirely edited out of the Bible by its male editors,"
      he added.

      http://news.discovery.com/history/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.html




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    • Allison Loukanis
      Oh I don t think it is all that stupid. Certainly it  offends current day practitioners of the faith. Allison ________________________________ From: Lin Kerns
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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        Oh I don't think it is all that stupid. Certainly it  offends current day practitioners of the faith. Allison


        From: Lin Kerns <linkerns@...>
        To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 10:45:15 PM
        Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

         

        I have to agree with Kim. Ishtar was one of the high goddesses of Egypt and she was worshiped as far back as the Sumerians. Astarte is still worshiped in some witches' covens, and her name stretches even farther back in time. But the claim that she was the Israelite God's wife is so absurd.

        The reason that both statues shared the Temple is that this was a time before the Temple was *cleansed," and the pagans wanted a deity of theirs to be represented. Simple.

        Imagine two strangers sitting beside each other in church; association does not imply marriage. Also, what if their names appeared together in conversation or the Book of the Elect. Still sounds silly to imply something more than what's in your face.

        Stupid. Stupid. stupidstupidstupid.

        Lin


        On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...> wrote:
         

        This is beyond stupid...... this was a heathen pagan god introduced into the temple as oft happened during the history of the First Temple.... no news bulletin here other than the vapid and vacuous assertions of this pseudo-intellectual trying desperately to come up with an angle in order to garner attention.... and succeeding!

        Kimmer

        On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, <robert-blau@...> wrote:
         

        Make the story and its significance fairly clear . . .

        God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible -- Almost
        Discovery News [USA], Mar 18, 2011

        God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped
        alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford
        scholar. In 1967, Raphael Patai was the first historian to mention that
        the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah. The theory has
        gained new prominence due to the research of Francesca Stavrakopoulou,
        who began her work at Oxford and is now a senior lecturer in the
        department of Theology and Religion at the University of Exeter. "After
        years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel,
        however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some,
        uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added. J. Edward
        Wright, president of both The Arizona Center for Judaic Studies and The
        Albright Institute for Archaeological Research, told Discovery News that
        he agrees several Hebrew inscriptions mention "Yahweh and his Asherah."
        "Asherah was not entirely edited out of the Bible by its male editors,"
        he added.

        http://news.discovery.com/history/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.html




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      • Lin Kerns
        The concept doesn t offend me, but the pairing of a pagan god with Yahweh is like mixing oil with water. If we think that the current display of religious
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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          The concept doesn't offend me, but the pairing of a pagan god with Yahweh is like mixing oil with water. If we think that the current display of religious manifestations are abundant in number, remember that at that point in time, there were even more wild sects practicing their own theologies. I'm sure that one of those sects "married" Ishtar to Yahweh in an attempt to keep one's goddess in the face of the growing number of the Israelite faithful, but having read most of the books considered for inclusion in the Bible, but rejected for one reason or another, I've yet to see anything that stated that within the roots of Christianity, God had a wife.

          The most absurd thing I've read is in the Book of Thomas wherein Jesus tells Mary that in order to gain heaven, she must become a man. lol Thank goodness the wisdom of the early church fathers prevailed.

          Lin

          On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 7:07 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
           

          Oh I don't think it is all that stupid. Certainly it  offends current day practitioners of the faith. Allison


          From: Lin Kerns <linkerns@...>
          To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 10:45:15 PM

          Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

           

          I have to agree with Kim. Ishtar was one of the high goddesses of Egypt and she was worshiped as far back as the Sumerians. Astarte is still worshiped in some witches' covens, and her name stretches even farther back in time. But the claim that she was the Israelite God's wife is so absurd.

          The reason that both statues shared the Temple is that this was a time before the Temple was *cleansed," and the pagans wanted a deity of theirs to be represented. Simple.

          Imagine two strangers sitting beside each other in church; association does not imply marriage. Also, what if their names appeared together in conversation or the Book of the Elect. Still sounds silly to imply something more than what's in your face.

          Stupid. Stupid. stupidstupidstupid.

          Lin


          On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...> wrote:
           

          This is beyond stupid...... this was a heathen pagan god introduced into the temple as oft happened during the history of the First Temple.... no news bulletin here other than the vapid and vacuous assertions of this pseudo-intellectual trying desperately to come up with an angle in order to garner attention.... and succeeding!

          Kimmer

          On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, <robert-blau@...> wrote:
           

          Make the story and its significance fairly clear . . .

          God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible -- Almost
          Discovery News [USA], Mar 18, 2011

          God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped
          alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford
          scholar. In 1967, Raphael Patai was the first historian to mention that
          the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah. The theory has
          gained new prominence due to the research of Francesca Stavrakopoulou,
          who began her work at Oxford and is now a senior lecturer in the
          department of Theology and Religion at the University of Exeter. "After
          years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel,
          however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some,
          uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added. J. Edward
          Wright, president of both The Arizona Center for Judaic Studies and The
          Albright Institute for Archaeological Research, told Discovery News that
          he agrees several Hebrew inscriptions mention "Yahweh and his Asherah."
          "Asherah was not entirely edited out of the Bible by its male editors,"
          he added.

          http://news.discovery.com/history/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.html




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        • Allison Loukanis
          Well some would say that we worship Mary today in Catholicism. Certainly in mainstream Chrisitanity there is no doubt that God did  not/does not have a wife.
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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            Well some would say that we worship Mary today in Catholicism. Certainly in mainstream Chrisitanity there is no doubt that God did  not/does not have a wife. But who is to say that at one time this was accepted and then someone..Ezekial, Jeremiah...whoever.. threw a fit and rooted that out? The gospel of Thomas was thrown out by that second century bishop Irenaeus.. who was influential in deciding the Canon of the Bible, but what if he had accepted the Gospel of Thomas? and then we would all be thinking we had to change into men to attain the kindom of heaven... Ack!  I think the same sort of thing went on a long time ago with a lot of  people deciding that indeed God did have a wife. Just because we don't believe it now doesn't mean it didnt' happen. Allison


            From: Lin Kerns <linkerns@...>
            To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 5:26:16 AM
            Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

             

            The concept doesn't offend me, but the pairing of a pagan god with Yahweh is like mixing oil with water. If we think that the current display of religious manifestations are abundant in number, remember that at that point in time, there were even more wild sects practicing their own theologies. I'm sure that one of those sects "married" Ishtar to Yahweh in an attempt to keep one's goddess in the face of the growing number of the Israelite faithful, but having read most of the books considered for inclusion in the Bible, but rejected for one reason or another, I've yet to see anything that stated that within the roots of Christianity, God had a wife.

            The most absurd thing I've read is in the Book of Thomas wherein Jesus tells Mary that in order to gain heaven, she must become a man. lol Thank goodness the wisdom of the early church fathers prevailed.

            Lin

            On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 7:07 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
             

            Oh I don't think it is all that stupid. Certainly it  offends current day practitioners of the faith. Allison


            From: Lin Kerns <linkerns@...>
            To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 10:45:15 PM

            Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

             

            I have to agree with Kim. Ishtar was one of the high goddesses of Egypt and she was worshiped as far back as the Sumerians. Astarte is still worshiped in some witches' covens, and her name stretches even farther back in time. But the claim that she was the Israelite God's wife is so absurd.

            The reason that both statues shared the Temple is that this was a time before the Temple was *cleansed," and the pagans wanted a deity of theirs to be represented. Simple.

            Imagine two strangers sitting beside each other in church; association does not imply marriage. Also, what if their names appeared together in conversation or the Book of the Elect. Still sounds silly to imply something more than what's in your face.

            Stupid. Stupid. stupidstupidstupid.

            Lin


            On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...> wrote:
             

            This is beyond stupid...... this was a heathen pagan god introduced into the temple as oft happened during the history of the First Temple.... no news bulletin here other than the vapid and vacuous assertions of this pseudo-intellectual trying desperately to come up with an angle in order to garner attention.... and succeeding!

            Kimmer

            On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, <robert-blau@...> wrote:
             

            Make the story and its significance fairly clear . . .

            God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible -- Almost
            Discovery News [USA], Mar 18, 2011

            God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped
            alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford
            scholar. In 1967, Raphael Patai was the first historian to mention that
            the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah. The theory has
            gained new prominence due to the research of Francesca Stavrakopoulou,
            who began her work at Oxford and is now a senior lecturer in the
            department of Theology and Religion at the University of Exeter. "After
            years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel,
            however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some,
            uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added. J. Edward
            Wright, president of both The Arizona Center for Judaic Studies and The
            Albright Institute for Archaeological Research, told Discovery News that
            he agrees several Hebrew inscriptions mention "Yahweh and his Asherah."
            "Asherah was not entirely edited out of the Bible by its male editors,"
            he added.

            http://news.discovery.com/history/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.html




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          • Kim Noyes
            *Allison, Your thoughts are not well-organized in this. You seem to not have listened to Lin s logic, nor mine. First off, in the scriptures there is no
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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              Allison,

              Your thoughts are not well-organized in this. You seem to not have listened to Lin's logic, nor mine.

              First off, in the scriptures there is no reference to such. Secondly, God is a triune God with a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.... there is no fourth personality within the God-head.

              Secondly, God clearly established the institution of marriage for human beings whom live in physical bodies with sexual needs and reproductive abilities, things that are beneath God's own personal necessity and existence.

              Thirdly, as Lin and I already clearly explained the presence of other God's in the Temple not evidence they were all married, merely that they were all worshipped there.

              It is your own secular humanistic thought processes and value system that are threatened and reacting, not Lin nor I.

              Bringing up Catholicism and making reference to patriarchy are straw man arguments.... very thin ones.

              Der Kimster



              On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 5:05 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
               

              No I disagree...there was an article accompanied by photos of ancient temple offerings that depict both a male and female in BAR.. I will see if I can find it and post it. Women were once worshipped too. Don't tell me you feel threatened by the presence of a female counterpart? hmmm? I mean, why not? The Catholic Church has only been around 2000 plus years.... and previous religions for 20 or 30 thousand years. Look at the Venus figurines....they span an enormous amount of time. Maybe God only had a wife for a short time.. maybe she was edited out by patriarchal old goats who were threatened by women... and tried desperately to keep women downtrodden and disenfranchised. Allison


              From: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...>
              To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 10:10:32 PM
              Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

               

              This is beyond stupid...... this was a heathen pagan god introduced into the temple as oft happened during the history of the First Temple.... no news bulletin here other than the vapid and vacuous assertions of this pseudo-intellectual trying desperately to come up with an angle in order to garner attention.... and succeeding!

              Kimmer

              On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, <robert-blau@...> wrote:
               

              Make the story and its significance fairly clear . . .

              God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible -- Almost
              Discovery News [USA], Mar 18, 2011

              God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped
              alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford
              scholar. In 1967, Raphael Patai was the first historian to mention that
              the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah. The theory has
              gained new prominence due to the research of Francesca Stavrakopoulou,
              who began her work at Oxford and is now a senior lecturer in the
              department of Theology and Religion at the University of Exeter. "After
              years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel,
              however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some,
              uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added. J. Edward
              Wright, president of both The Arizona Center for Judaic Studies and The
              Albright Institute for Archaeological Research, told Discovery News that
              he agrees several Hebrew inscriptions mention "Yahweh and his Asherah."
              "Asherah was not entirely edited out of the Bible by its male editors,"
              he added.

              http://news.discovery.com/history/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.html




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            • Kim Noyes
              *Everything that is in the Scriptures is precisely what God wanted placed there.... nobody free-lanced and rooted anything out that God had placed there
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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                Everything that is in the Scriptures is precisely what God wanted placed there....  nobody free-lanced and rooted anything out that God had placed there originally and such idle speculation to the contrary is vapid and utterly unsupported by the facts.

                You are anthropomorphizing God to suggest He needs a wife for sexual gratification and reproduction and domestic help and companionship when we are talking about a non-corporeal Creator of the Universes that has already introduced Himself as having three personalities: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

                God created us in His image - we DID NOT create Him in our image. We don't decide if He was married or not. To whom would a God that is triune and non-corporeal and omnipresent and omnipotent and omniscient be married? That gal named Sally who works at Hooters in Houston?

                The Scriptures already makes it plainly clear that there were pagan gods being placed in the temple for worship which explain this matter already. All this other talk is vanity and foolishness.

                Now you are all over the place in an explosion of unrelated and unconnected foolishness.

                The Gospel of Thomas as discarded and thrown away because it was clearly written by a poser and charlatan and is filled with foolishness.... it was not hidden or suppressed, it was DISCARDED as it ought to have been.


                Der Kimster


                On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 6:04 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                 

                Well some would say that we worship Mary today in Catholicism. Certainly in mainstream Chrisitanity there is no doubt that God did  not/does not have a wife. But who is to say that at one time this was accepted and then someone..Ezekial, Jeremiah...whoever.. threw a fit and rooted that out? The gospel of Thomas was thrown out by that second century bishop Irenaeus.. who was influential in deciding the Canon of the Bible, but what if he had accepted the Gospel of Thomas? and then we would all be thinking we had to change into men to attain the kindom of heaven... Ack!  I think the same sort of thing went on a long time ago with a lot of  people deciding that indeed God did have a wife. Just because we don't believe it now doesn't mean it didnt' happen. Allison

                Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 5:26:16 AM

                Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                 

                The concept doesn't offend me, but the pairing of a pagan god with Yahweh is like mixing oil with water. If we think that the current display of religious manifestations are abundant in number, remember that at that point in time, there were even more wild sects practicing their own theologies. I'm sure that one of those sects "married" Ishtar to Yahweh in an attempt to keep one's goddess in the face of the growing number of the Israelite faithful, but having read most of the books considered for inclusion in the Bible, but rejected for one reason or another, I've yet to see anything that stated that within the roots of Christianity, God had a wife.

                The most absurd thing I've read is in the Book of Thomas wherein Jesus tells Mary that in order to gain heaven, she must become a man. lol Thank goodness the wisdom of the early church fathers prevailed.

                Lin

                On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 7:07 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                 

                Oh I don't think it is all that stupid. Certainly it  offends current day practitioners of the faith. Allison


                From: Lin Kerns <linkerns@...>
                To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 10:45:15 PM

                Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                 

                I have to agree with Kim. Ishtar was one of the high goddesses of Egypt and she was worshiped as far back as the Sumerians. Astarte is still worshiped in some witches' covens, and her name stretches even farther back in time. But the claim that she was the Israelite God's wife is so absurd.

                The reason that both statues shared the Temple is that this was a time before the Temple was *cleansed," and the pagans wanted a deity of theirs to be represented. Simple.

                Imagine two strangers sitting beside each other in church; association does not imply marriage. Also, what if their names appeared together in conversation or the Book of the Elect. Still sounds silly to imply something more than what's in your face.

                Stupid. Stupid. stupidstupidstupid.

                Lin


                On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...> wrote:
                 

                This is beyond stupid...... this was a heathen pagan god introduced into the temple as oft happened during the history of the First Temple.... no news bulletin here other than the vapid and vacuous assertions of this pseudo-intellectual trying desperately to come up with an angle in order to garner attention.... and succeeding!

                Kimmer

                On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, <robert-blau@...> wrote:
                 

                Make the story and its significance fairly clear . . .

                God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible -- Almost
                Discovery News [USA], Mar 18, 2011

                God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped
                alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford
                scholar. In 1967, Raphael Patai was the first historian to mention that
                the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah. The theory has
                gained new prominence due to the research of Francesca Stavrakopoulou,
                who began her work at Oxford and is now a senior lecturer in the
                department of Theology and Religion at the University of Exeter. "After
                years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel,
                however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some,
                uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added. J. Edward
                Wright, president of both The Arizona Center for Judaic Studies and The
                Albright Institute for Archaeological Research, told Discovery News that
                he agrees several Hebrew inscriptions mention "Yahweh and his Asherah."
                "Asherah was not entirely edited out of the Bible by its male editors,"
                he added.

                http://news.discovery.com/history/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.html




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              • Kim Noyes
                *Then let me rephrase that: it would not seem stupid to a simple mind that rejected the truth and loved foolishness. Der Kimster* On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 5:07
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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                  Then let me rephrase that: it would not seem stupid to a simple mind that rejected the truth and loved foolishness.

                  Der Kimster



                  On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 5:07 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                   

                  Oh I don't think it is all that stupid. Certainly it  offends current day practitioners of the faith. Allison


                  From: Lin Kerns <linkerns@...>
                  To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 10:45:15 PM

                  Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                   

                  I have to agree with Kim. Ishtar was one of the high goddesses of Egypt and she was worshiped as far back as the Sumerians. Astarte is still worshiped in some witches' covens, and her name stretches even farther back in time. But the claim that she was the Israelite God's wife is so absurd.

                  The reason that both statues shared the Temple is that this was a time before the Temple was *cleansed," and the pagans wanted a deity of theirs to be represented. Simple.

                  Imagine two strangers sitting beside each other in church; association does not imply marriage. Also, what if their names appeared together in conversation or the Book of the Elect. Still sounds silly to imply something more than what's in your face.

                  Stupid. Stupid. stupidstupidstupid.

                  Lin


                  On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...> wrote:
                   

                  This is beyond stupid...... this was a heathen pagan god introduced into the temple as oft happened during the history of the First Temple.... no news bulletin here other than the vapid and vacuous assertions of this pseudo-intellectual trying desperately to come up with an angle in order to garner attention.... and succeeding!

                  Kimmer

                  On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, <robert-blau@...> wrote:
                   

                  Make the story and its significance fairly clear . . .

                  God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible -- Almost
                  Discovery News [USA], Mar 18, 2011

                  God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped
                  alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford
                  scholar. In 1967, Raphael Patai was the first historian to mention that
                  the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah. The theory has
                  gained new prominence due to the research of Francesca Stavrakopoulou,
                  who began her work at Oxford and is now a senior lecturer in the
                  department of Theology and Religion at the University of Exeter. "After
                  years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel,
                  however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some,
                  uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added. J. Edward
                  Wright, president of both The Arizona Center for Judaic Studies and The
                  Albright Institute for Archaeological Research, told Discovery News that
                  he agrees several Hebrew inscriptions mention "Yahweh and his Asherah."
                  "Asherah was not entirely edited out of the Bible by its male editors,"
                  he added.

                  http://news.discovery.com/history/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.html





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                • Allison Loukanis
                  Nope don t agree with you there either. Really no one can prove anything here... not that God had a wife, not that there is even a god.. rather I just said
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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                    Nope don't agree with you there either. Really no one can prove anything here... not that God had a wife, not that there is even a god.. rather I just said that it  looks like there is evidence for the fact that a lot of people believed that God did have a wife once up on a time. And I  produced some articles that said the same thing. You are looking too much at theology...not enough at the actual facts. This is a group about history, right? not theology. It makes for a nice debate. Of course there is no mention of God's wife obviously in the Bible although some of the articles I sent refer to some oblique references. Also today in accepted Christian theology there is no place for God to have a wife. But  a longtime ago in a less sophisticated culture, it looks like God might have had a wife. And likely someone like Jeremiah reacted just like you did... possibly he was a relative? Geez. Quit confusing the theology of  today with the  simple ways of yesterday. Allison


                    From: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...>
                    To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 8:31:09 AM
                    Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                     

                    Allison,

                    Your thoughts are not well-organized in this. You seem to not have listened to Lin's logic, nor mine.

                    First off, in the scriptures there is no reference to such. Secondly, God is a triune God with a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.... there is no fourth personality within the God-head.

                    Secondly, God clearly established the institution of marriage for human beings whom live in physical bodies with sexual needs and reproductive abilities, things that are beneath God's own personal necessity and existence.

                    Thirdly, as Lin and I already clearly explained the presence of other God's in the Temple not evidence they were all married, merely that they were all worshipped there.

                    It is your own secular humanistic thought processes and value system that are threatened and reacting, not Lin nor I.

                    Bringing up Catholicism and making reference to patriarchy are straw man arguments.... very thin ones.

                    Der Kimster



                    On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 5:05 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                     

                    No I disagree...there was an article accompanied by photos of ancient temple offerings that depict both a male and female in BAR.. I will see if I can find it and post it. Women were once worshipped too. Don't tell me you feel threatened by the presence of a female counterpart? hmmm? I mean, why not? The Catholic Church has only been around 2000 plus years.... and previous religions for 20 or 30 thousand years. Look at the Venus figurines....they span an enormous amount of time. Maybe God only had a wife for a short time.. maybe she was edited out by patriarchal old goats who were threatened by women... and tried desperately to keep women downtrodden and disenfranchised. Allison


                    From: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...>
                    To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 10:10:32 PM
                    Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                     

                    This is beyond stupid...... this was a heathen pagan god introduced into the temple as oft happened during the history of the First Temple.... no news bulletin here other than the vapid and vacuous assertions of this pseudo-intellectual trying desperately to come up with an angle in order to garner attention.... and succeeding!

                    Kimmer

                    On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, <robert-blau@...> wrote:
                     

                    Make the story and its significance fairly clear . . .

                    God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible -- Almost
                    Discovery News [USA], Mar 18, 2011

                    God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped
                    alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford
                    scholar. In 1967, Raphael Patai was the first historian to mention that
                    the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah. The theory has
                    gained new prominence due to the research of Francesca Stavrakopoulou,
                    who began her work at Oxford and is now a senior lecturer in the
                    department of Theology and Religion at the University of Exeter. "After
                    years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel,
                    however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some,
                    uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added. J. Edward
                    Wright, president of both The Arizona Center for Judaic Studies and The
                    Albright Institute for Archaeological Research, told Discovery News that
                    he agrees several Hebrew inscriptions mention "Yahweh and his Asherah."
                    "Asherah was not entirely edited out of the Bible by its male editors,"
                    he added.

                    http://news.discovery.com/history/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.html




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                  • Allison Loukanis
                    Wow this really hit a nerve..this is history not theology...it bears repeating. You must behaving a religious meltdown.Allison ________________________________
                    Message 9 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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                      Wow this really hit a nerve..this is history not theology...it bears repeating. You must behaving a religious meltdown.Allison


                      From: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...>
                      To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 8:41:39 AM
                      Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                       

                      Everything that is in the Scriptures is precisely what God wanted placed there....  nobody free-lanced and rooted anything out that God had placed there originally and such idle speculation to the contrary is vapid and utterly unsupported by the facts.

                      You are anthropomorphizing God to suggest He needs a wife for sexual gratification and reproduction and domestic help and companionship when we are talking about a non-corporeal Creator of the Universes that has already introduced Himself as having three personalities: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

                      God created us in His image - we DID NOT create Him in our image. We don't decide if He was married or not. To whom would a God that is triune and non-corporeal and omnipresent and omnipotent and omniscient be married? That gal named Sally who works at Hooters in Houston?

                      The Scriptures already makes it plainly clear that there were pagan gods being placed in the temple for worship which explain this matter already. All this other talk is vanity and foolishness.

                      Now you are all over the place in an explosion of unrelated and unconnected foolishness.

                      The Gospel of Thomas as discarded and thrown away because it was clearly written by a poser and charlatan and is filled with foolishness.... it was not hidden or suppressed, it was DISCARDED as it ought to have been.


                      Der Kimster


                      On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 6:04 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                       

                      Well some would say that we worship Mary today in Catholicism. Certainly in mainstream Chrisitanity there is no doubt that God did  not/does not have a wife. But who is to say that at one time this was accepted and then someone..Ezekial, Jeremiah...whoever.. threw a fit and rooted that out? The gospel of Thomas was thrown out by that second century bishop Irenaeus.. who was influential in deciding the Canon of the Bible, but what if he had accepted the Gospel of Thomas? and then we would all be thinking we had to change into men to attain the kindom of heaven... Ack!  I think the same sort of thing went on a long time ago with a lot of  people deciding that indeed God did have a wife. Just because we don't believe it now doesn't mean it didnt' happen. Allison

                      Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 5:26:16 AM

                      Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                       

                      The concept doesn't offend me, but the pairing of a pagan god with Yahweh is like mixing oil with water. If we think that the current display of religious manifestations are abundant in number, remember that at that point in time, there were even more wild sects practicing their own theologies. I'm sure that one of those sects "married" Ishtar to Yahweh in an attempt to keep one's goddess in the face of the growing number of the Israelite faithful, but having read most of the books considered for inclusion in the Bible, but rejected for one reason or another, I've yet to see anything that stated that within the roots of Christianity, God had a wife.

                      The most absurd thing I've read is in the Book of Thomas wherein Jesus tells Mary that in order to gain heaven, she must become a man. lol Thank goodness the wisdom of the early church fathers prevailed.

                      Lin

                      On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 7:07 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                       

                      Oh I don't think it is all that stupid. Certainly it  offends current day practitioners of the faith. Allison


                      From: Lin Kerns <linkerns@...>
                      To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 10:45:15 PM

                      Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                       

                      I have to agree with Kim. Ishtar was one of the high goddesses of Egypt and she was worshiped as far back as the Sumerians. Astarte is still worshiped in some witches' covens, and her name stretches even farther back in time. But the claim that she was the Israelite God's wife is so absurd.

                      The reason that both statues shared the Temple is that this was a time before the Temple was *cleansed," and the pagans wanted a deity of theirs to be represented. Simple.

                      Imagine two strangers sitting beside each other in church; association does not imply marriage. Also, what if their names appeared together in conversation or the Book of the Elect. Still sounds silly to imply something more than what's in your face.

                      Stupid. Stupid. stupidstupidstupid.

                      Lin


                      On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...> wrote:
                       

                      This is beyond stupid...... this was a heathen pagan god introduced into the temple as oft happened during the history of the First Temple.... no news bulletin here other than the vapid and vacuous assertions of this pseudo-intellectual trying desperately to come up with an angle in order to garner attention.... and succeeding!

                      Kimmer

                      On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, <robert-blau@...> wrote:
                       

                      Make the story and its significance fairly clear . . .

                      God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible -- Almost
                      Discovery News [USA], Mar 18, 2011

                      God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped
                      alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford
                      scholar. In 1967, Raphael Patai was the first historian to mention that
                      the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah. The theory has
                      gained new prominence due to the research of Francesca Stavrakopoulou,
                      who began her work at Oxford and is now a senior lecturer in the
                      department of Theology and Religion at the University of Exeter. "After
                      years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel,
                      however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some,
                      uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added. J. Edward
                      Wright, president of both The Arizona Center for Judaic Studies and The
                      Albright Institute for Archaeological Research, told Discovery News that
                      he agrees several Hebrew inscriptions mention "Yahweh and his Asherah."
                      "Asherah was not entirely edited out of the Bible by its male editors,"
                      he added.

                      http://news.discovery.com/history/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.html




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                    • Kim Noyes
                      *Allison, Quit being simple: you have produced no facts that contradict the fact that there were other pagan gods in the Hebrew temple on occasion during times
                      Message 10 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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                        Allison,

                        Quit being simple: you have produced no facts that contradict the fact that there were other pagan gods in the Hebrew temple on occasion during times when the Hebrews were functioning polytheistically. Just because there was a male God and a female god worshipped in the same place does not automatically indicate they were considered husband and wife. You are making the same idle suppositions as the man who is the subject of the article that started this dialogue. You are ignoring Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation, and not coincidentally the correct explanation, is that multiple individual separate gods were worshipped in one place. Most Roman and Greek gods weren't married to each other either even when worshipped in the same place. Not only are you not discussing theology you are not discussing history or science or fact or faith or anything whatsoever that remotely approximates an intelligent intellectual dialogue.

                        Der Kimster


                        On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 9:05 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                         

                        Nope don't agree with you there either. Really no one can prove anything here... not that God had a wife, not that there is even a god.. rather I just said that it  looks like there is evidence for the fact that a lot of people believed that God did have a wife once up on a time. And I  produced some articles that said the same thing. You are looking too much at theology...not enough at the actual facts. This is a group about history, right? not theology. It makes for a nice debate. Of course there is no mention of God's wife obviously in the Bible although some of the articles I sent refer to some oblique references. Also today in accepted Christian theology there is no place for God to have a wife. But  a longtime ago in a less sophisticated culture, it looks like God might have had a wife. And likely someone like Jeremiah reacted just like you did... possibly he was a relative? Geez. Quit confusing the theology of  today with the  simple ways of yesterday. Allison

                        Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 8:31:09 AM

                        Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                         

                        Allison,

                        Your thoughts are not well-organized in this. You seem to not have listened to Lin's logic, nor mine.

                        First off, in the scriptures there is no reference to such. Secondly, God is a triune God with a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.... there is no fourth personality within the God-head.

                        Secondly, God clearly established the institution of marriage for human beings whom live in physical bodies with sexual needs and reproductive abilities, things that are beneath God's own personal necessity and existence.

                        Thirdly, as Lin and I already clearly explained the presence of other God's in the Temple not evidence they were all married, merely that they were all worshipped there.

                        It is your own secular humanistic thought processes and value system that are threatened and reacting, not Lin nor I.

                        Bringing up Catholicism and making reference to patriarchy are straw man arguments.... very thin ones.

                        Der Kimster



                        On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 5:05 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                         

                        No I disagree...there was an article accompanied by photos of ancient temple offerings that depict both a male and female in BAR.. I will see if I can find it and post it. Women were once worshipped too. Don't tell me you feel threatened by the presence of a female counterpart? hmmm? I mean, why not? The Catholic Church has only been around 2000 plus years.... and previous religions for 20 or 30 thousand years. Look at the Venus figurines....they span an enormous amount of time. Maybe God only had a wife for a short time.. maybe she was edited out by patriarchal old goats who were threatened by women... and tried desperately to keep women downtrodden and disenfranchised. Allison


                        From: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...>
                        To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 10:10:32 PM
                        Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                         

                        This is beyond stupid...... this was a heathen pagan god introduced into the temple as oft happened during the history of the First Temple.... no news bulletin here other than the vapid and vacuous assertions of this pseudo-intellectual trying desperately to come up with an angle in order to garner attention.... and succeeding!

                        Kimmer

                        On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, <robert-blau@...> wrote:
                         

                        Make the story and its significance fairly clear . . .

                        God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible -- Almost
                        Discovery News [USA], Mar 18, 2011

                        God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped
                        alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford
                        scholar. In 1967, Raphael Patai was the first historian to mention that
                        the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah. The theory has
                        gained new prominence due to the research of Francesca Stavrakopoulou,
                        who began her work at Oxford and is now a senior lecturer in the
                        department of Theology and Religion at the University of Exeter. "After
                        years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel,
                        however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some,
                        uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added. J. Edward
                        Wright, president of both The Arizona Center for Judaic Studies and The
                        Albright Institute for Archaeological Research, told Discovery News that
                        he agrees several Hebrew inscriptions mention "Yahweh and his Asherah."
                        "Asherah was not entirely edited out of the Bible by its male editors,"
                        he added.

                        http://news.discovery.com/history/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.html




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                      • Kim Noyes
                        *NO, you are the one experiencing an apparent intellectual meltdown. You have stated nothing intelligent thus far this morning. You are discussing neither
                        Message 11 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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                          NO, you are the one experiencing an apparent intellectual meltdown. You have stated nothing intelligent thus far this morning.

                          You are discussing neither theology nor history... you are not actually directly addressing any of the facts or logical ideas I have presented but keep contentiously arguing for arguing's sake while constantly either repeated what you stated before that was already refuted or going on to some other angle that is no more helpful to the general thrust of what you are vainly attempting to prove.

                          Der Kimster



                          On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                           

                          Wow this really hit a nerve..this is history not theology...it bears repeating. You must behaving a religious meltdown.Allison


                          From: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...>
                          To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 8:41:39 AM

                          Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                           

                          Everything that is in the Scriptures is precisely what God wanted placed there....  nobody free-lanced and rooted anything out that God had placed there originally and such idle speculation to the contrary is vapid and utterly unsupported by the facts.

                          You are anthropomorphizing God to suggest He needs a wife for sexual gratification and reproduction and domestic help and companionship when we are talking about a non-corporeal Creator of the Universes that has already introduced Himself as having three personalities: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

                          God created us in His image - we DID NOT create Him in our image. We don't decide if He was married or not. To whom would a God that is triune and non-corporeal and omnipresent and omnipotent and omniscient be married? That gal named Sally who works at Hooters in Houston?

                          The Scriptures already makes it plainly clear that there were pagan gods being placed in the temple for worship which explain this matter already. All this other talk is vanity and foolishness.

                          Now you are all over the place in an explosion of unrelated and unconnected foolishness.

                          The Gospel of Thomas as discarded and thrown away because it was clearly written by a poser and charlatan and is filled with foolishness.... it was not hidden or suppressed, it was DISCARDED as it ought to have been.


                          Der Kimster


                          On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 6:04 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                           

                          Well some would say that we worship Mary today in Catholicism. Certainly in mainstream Chrisitanity there is no doubt that God did  not/does not have a wife. But who is to say that at one time this was accepted and then someone..Ezekial, Jeremiah...whoever.. threw a fit and rooted that out? The gospel of Thomas was thrown out by that second century bishop Irenaeus.. who was influential in deciding the Canon of the Bible, but what if he had accepted the Gospel of Thomas? and then we would all be thinking we had to change into men to attain the kindom of heaven... Ack!  I think the same sort of thing went on a long time ago with a lot of  people deciding that indeed God did have a wife. Just because we don't believe it now doesn't mean it didnt' happen. Allison

                          Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 5:26:16 AM

                          Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                           

                          The concept doesn't offend me, but the pairing of a pagan god with Yahweh is like mixing oil with water. If we think that the current display of religious manifestations are abundant in number, remember that at that point in time, there were even more wild sects practicing their own theologies. I'm sure that one of those sects "married" Ishtar to Yahweh in an attempt to keep one's goddess in the face of the growing number of the Israelite faithful, but having read most of the books considered for inclusion in the Bible, but rejected for one reason or another, I've yet to see anything that stated that within the roots of Christianity, God had a wife.

                          The most absurd thing I've read is in the Book of Thomas wherein Jesus tells Mary that in order to gain heaven, she must become a man. lol Thank goodness the wisdom of the early church fathers prevailed.

                          Lin

                          On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 7:07 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                           

                          Oh I don't think it is all that stupid. Certainly it  offends current day practitioners of the faith. Allison


                          From: Lin Kerns <linkerns@...>
                          To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 10:45:15 PM

                          Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                           

                          I have to agree with Kim. Ishtar was one of the high goddesses of Egypt and she was worshiped as far back as the Sumerians. Astarte is still worshiped in some witches' covens, and her name stretches even farther back in time. But the claim that she was the Israelite God's wife is so absurd.

                          The reason that both statues shared the Temple is that this was a time before the Temple was *cleansed," and the pagans wanted a deity of theirs to be represented. Simple.

                          Imagine two strangers sitting beside each other in church; association does not imply marriage. Also, what if their names appeared together in conversation or the Book of the Elect. Still sounds silly to imply something more than what's in your face.

                          Stupid. Stupid. stupidstupidstupid.

                          Lin


                          On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...> wrote:
                           

                          This is beyond stupid...... this was a heathen pagan god introduced into the temple as oft happened during the history of the First Temple.... no news bulletin here other than the vapid and vacuous assertions of this pseudo-intellectual trying desperately to come up with an angle in order to garner attention.... and succeeding!

                          Kimmer

                          On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, <robert-blau@...> wrote:
                           

                          Make the story and its significance fairly clear . . .

                          God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible -- Almost
                          Discovery News [USA], Mar 18, 2011

                          God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped
                          alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford
                          scholar. In 1967, Raphael Patai was the first historian to mention that
                          the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah. The theory has
                          gained new prominence due to the research of Francesca Stavrakopoulou,
                          who began her work at Oxford and is now a senior lecturer in the
                          department of Theology and Religion at the University of Exeter. "After
                          years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel,
                          however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some,
                          uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added. J. Edward
                          Wright, president of both The Arizona Center for Judaic Studies and The
                          Albright Institute for Archaeological Research, told Discovery News that
                          he agrees several Hebrew inscriptions mention "Yahweh and his Asherah."
                          "Asherah was not entirely edited out of the Bible by its male editors,"
                          he added.

                          http://news.discovery.com/history/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.html




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                        • Allison Loukanis
                          No I posted articles from those who could do that. Read them. allison ________________________________ From: Kim Noyes To:
                          Message 12 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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                            No I posted articles from those who could do that. Read them. allison


                            From: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...>
                            To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 9:12:04 AM
                            Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                             

                            Allison,

                            Quit being simple: you have produced no facts that contradict the fact that there were other pagan gods in the Hebrew temple on occasion during times when the Hebrews were functioning polytheistically. Just because there was a male God and a female god worshipped in the same place does not automatically indicate they were considered husband and wife. You are making the same idle suppositions as the man who is the subject of the article that started this dialogue. You are ignoring Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation, and not coincidentally the correct explanation, is that multiple individual separate gods were worshipped in one place. Most Roman and Greek gods weren't married to each other either even when worshipped in the same place. Not only are you not discussing theology you are not discussing history or science or fact or faith or anything whatsoever that remotely approximates an intelligent intellectual dialogue.

                            Der Kimster


                            On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 9:05 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                             

                            Nope don't agree with you there either. Really no one can prove anything here... not that God had a wife, not that there is even a god.. rather I just said that it  looks like there is evidence for the fact that a lot of people believed that God did have a wife once up on a time. And I  produced some articles that said the same thing. You are looking too much at theology...not enough at the actual facts. This is a group about history, right? not theology. It makes for a nice debate. Of course there is no mention of God's wife obviously in the Bible although some of the articles I sent refer to some oblique references. Also today in accepted Christian theology there is no place for God to have a wife. But  a longtime ago in a less sophisticated culture, it looks like God might have had a wife. And likely someone like Jeremiah reacted just like you did... possibly he was a relative? Geez. Quit confusing the theology of  today with the  simple ways of yesterday. Allison

                            Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 8:31:09 AM

                            Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                             

                            Allison,

                            Your thoughts are not well-organized in this. You seem to not have listened to Lin's logic, nor mine.

                            First off, in the scriptures there is no reference to such. Secondly, God is a triune God with a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.... there is no fourth personality within the God-head.

                            Secondly, God clearly established the institution of marriage for human beings whom live in physical bodies with sexual needs and reproductive abilities, things that are beneath God's own personal necessity and existence.

                            Thirdly, as Lin and I already clearly explained the presence of other God's in the Temple not evidence they were all married, merely that they were all worshipped there.

                            It is your own secular humanistic thought processes and value system that are threatened and reacting, not Lin nor I.

                            Bringing up Catholicism and making reference to patriarchy are straw man arguments.... very thin ones.

                            Der Kimster



                            On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 5:05 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                             

                            No I disagree...there was an article accompanied by photos of ancient temple offerings that depict both a male and female in BAR.. I will see if I can find it and post it. Women were once worshipped too. Don't tell me you feel threatened by the presence of a female counterpart? hmmm? I mean, why not? The Catholic Church has only been around 2000 plus years.... and previous religions for 20 or 30 thousand years. Look at the Venus figurines....they span an enormous amount of time. Maybe God only had a wife for a short time.. maybe she was edited out by patriarchal old goats who were threatened by women... and tried desperately to keep women downtrodden and disenfranchised. Allison


                            From: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...>
                            To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 10:10:32 PM
                            Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                             

                            This is beyond stupid...... this was a heathen pagan god introduced into the temple as oft happened during the history of the First Temple.... no news bulletin here other than the vapid and vacuous assertions of this pseudo-intellectual trying desperately to come up with an angle in order to garner attention.... and succeeding!

                            Kimmer

                            On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, <robert-blau@...> wrote:
                             

                            Make the story and its significance fairly clear . . .

                            God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible -- Almost
                            Discovery News [USA], Mar 18, 2011

                            God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped
                            alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford
                            scholar. In 1967, Raphael Patai was the first historian to mention that
                            the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah. The theory has
                            gained new prominence due to the research of Francesca Stavrakopoulou,
                            who began her work at Oxford and is now a senior lecturer in the
                            department of Theology and Religion at the University of Exeter. "After
                            years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel,
                            however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some,
                            uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added. J. Edward
                            Wright, president of both The Arizona Center for Judaic Studies and The
                            Albright Institute for Archaeological Research, told Discovery News that
                            he agrees several Hebrew inscriptions mention "Yahweh and his Asherah."
                            "Asherah was not entirely edited out of the Bible by its male editors,"
                            he added.

                            http://news.discovery.com/history/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.html




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                          • Allison Loukanis
                            Like I said..hit a nerve. Perhaps you are right..let me think...hmm. no I think I am. lol... give it up.. what are you trying to do, prove me wrong? This is
                            Message 13 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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                              Like I said..hit a nerve. Perhaps you are right..let me think...hmm. no I think I am. lol... give it up.. what are you trying to do, prove me wrong? This is unprovable and there is room for allsorts of thinking here. Go take an ice bath and calm down. Allison


                              From: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...>
                              To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 9:16:49 AM
                              Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                               

                              NO, you are the one experiencing an apparent intellectual meltdown. You have stated nothing intelligent thus far this morning.

                              You are discussing neither theology nor history... you are not actually directly addressing any of the facts or logical ideas I have presented but keep contentiously arguing for arguing's sake while constantly either repeated what you stated before that was already refuted or going on to some other angle that is no more helpful to the general thrust of what you are vainly attempting to prove.

                              Der Kimster



                              On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                               

                              Wow this really hit a nerve..this is history not theology...it bears repeating. You must behaving a religious meltdown.Allison


                              From: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...>
                              To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 8:41:39 AM

                              Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                               

                              Everything that is in the Scriptures is precisely what God wanted placed there....  nobody free-lanced and rooted anything out that God had placed there originally and such idle speculation to the contrary is vapid and utterly unsupported by the facts.

                              You are anthropomorphizing God to suggest He needs a wife for sexual gratification and reproduction and domestic help and companionship when we are talking about a non-corporeal Creator of the Universes that has already introduced Himself as having three personalities: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

                              God created us in His image - we DID NOT create Him in our image. We don't decide if He was married or not. To whom would a God that is triune and non-corporeal and omnipresent and omnipotent and omniscient be married? That gal named Sally who works at Hooters in Houston?

                              The Scriptures already makes it plainly clear that there were pagan gods being placed in the temple for worship which explain this matter already. All this other talk is vanity and foolishness.

                              Now you are all over the place in an explosion of unrelated and unconnected foolishness.

                              The Gospel of Thomas as discarded and thrown away because it was clearly written by a poser and charlatan and is filled with foolishness.... it was not hidden or suppressed, it was DISCARDED as it ought to have been.


                              Der Kimster


                              On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 6:04 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                               

                              Well some would say that we worship Mary today in Catholicism. Certainly in mainstream Chrisitanity there is no doubt that God did  not/does not have a wife. But who is to say that at one time this was accepted and then someone..Ezekial, Jeremiah...whoever.. threw a fit and rooted that out? The gospel of Thomas was thrown out by that second century bishop Irenaeus.. who was influential in deciding the Canon of the Bible, but what if he had accepted the Gospel of Thomas? and then we would all be thinking we had to change into men to attain the kindom of heaven... Ack!  I think the same sort of thing went on a long time ago with a lot of  people deciding that indeed God did have a wife. Just because we don't believe it now doesn't mean it didnt' happen. Allison

                              Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 5:26:16 AM

                              Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                               

                              The concept doesn't offend me, but the pairing of a pagan god with Yahweh is like mixing oil with water. If we think that the current display of religious manifestations are abundant in number, remember that at that point in time, there were even more wild sects practicing their own theologies. I'm sure that one of those sects "married" Ishtar to Yahweh in an attempt to keep one's goddess in the face of the growing number of the Israelite faithful, but having read most of the books considered for inclusion in the Bible, but rejected for one reason or another, I've yet to see anything that stated that within the roots of Christianity, God had a wife.

                              The most absurd thing I've read is in the Book of Thomas wherein Jesus tells Mary that in order to gain heaven, she must become a man. lol Thank goodness the wisdom of the early church fathers prevailed.

                              Lin

                              On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 7:07 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                               

                              Oh I don't think it is all that stupid. Certainly it  offends current day practitioners of the faith. Allison


                              From: Lin Kerns <linkerns@...>
                              To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 10:45:15 PM

                              Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                               

                              I have to agree with Kim. Ishtar was one of the high goddesses of Egypt and she was worshiped as far back as the Sumerians. Astarte is still worshiped in some witches' covens, and her name stretches even farther back in time. But the claim that she was the Israelite God's wife is so absurd.

                              The reason that both statues shared the Temple is that this was a time before the Temple was *cleansed," and the pagans wanted a deity of theirs to be represented. Simple.

                              Imagine two strangers sitting beside each other in church; association does not imply marriage. Also, what if their names appeared together in conversation or the Book of the Elect. Still sounds silly to imply something more than what's in your face.

                              Stupid. Stupid. stupidstupidstupid.

                              Lin


                              On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...> wrote:
                               

                              This is beyond stupid...... this was a heathen pagan god introduced into the temple as oft happened during the history of the First Temple.... no news bulletin here other than the vapid and vacuous assertions of this pseudo-intellectual trying desperately to come up with an angle in order to garner attention.... and succeeding!

                              Kimmer

                              On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, <robert-blau@...> wrote:
                               

                              Make the story and its significance fairly clear . . .

                              God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible -- Almost
                              Discovery News [USA], Mar 18, 2011

                              God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped
                              alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford
                              scholar. In 1967, Raphael Patai was the first historian to mention that
                              the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah. The theory has
                              gained new prominence due to the research of Francesca Stavrakopoulou,
                              who began her work at Oxford and is now a senior lecturer in the
                              department of Theology and Religion at the University of Exeter. "After
                              years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel,
                              however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some,
                              uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added. J. Edward
                              Wright, president of both The Arizona Center for Judaic Studies and The
                              Albright Institute for Archaeological Research, told Discovery News that
                              he agrees several Hebrew inscriptions mention "Yahweh and his Asherah."
                              "Asherah was not entirely edited out of the Bible by its male editors,"
                              he added.

                              http://news.discovery.com/history/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.html




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                            • Kim Noyes
                              *Allison, I can no longer afford the time to babysit you here. I have to go to work. Your comments have been weighed and acknowledged and your premise refuted.
                              Message 14 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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                                Allison,

                                I can no longer afford the time to babysit you here. I have to go to work. Your comments have been weighed and acknowledged and your premise refuted. You are doing a lot of projected upon me what rightly applies to you. Nice dodge. Your articles inadequately support your contention. Let us agree to disagree. The relative weights of your view shared by the person whose claims started this thread versus my rebuttals are out there for the membership to judge for themselves. Have a nice day.

                                Der Kimster


                                On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Like I said..hit a nerve. Perhaps you are right..let me think...hmm. no I think I am. lol... give it up.. what are you trying to do, prove me wrong? This is unprovable and there is room for allsorts of thinking here. Go take an ice bath and calm down. Allison

                                Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 9:16:49 AM

                                Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                                 

                                NO, you are the one experiencing an apparent intellectual meltdown. You have stated nothing intelligent thus far this morning.

                                You are discussing neither theology nor history... you are not actually directly addressing any of the facts or logical ideas I have presented but keep contentiously arguing for arguing's sake while constantly either repeated what you stated before that was already refuted or going on to some other angle that is no more helpful to the general thrust of what you are vainly attempting to prove.

                                Der Kimster



                                On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Wow this really hit a nerve..this is history not theology...it bears repeating. You must behaving a religious meltdown.Allison


                                From: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...>
                                To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 8:41:39 AM

                                Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                                 

                                Everything that is in the Scriptures is precisely what God wanted placed there....  nobody free-lanced and rooted anything out that God had placed there originally and such idle speculation to the contrary is vapid and utterly unsupported by the facts.

                                You are anthropomorphizing God to suggest He needs a wife for sexual gratification and reproduction and domestic help and companionship when we are talking about a non-corporeal Creator of the Universes that has already introduced Himself as having three personalities: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

                                God created us in His image - we DID NOT create Him in our image. We don't decide if He was married or not. To whom would a God that is triune and non-corporeal and omnipresent and omnipotent and omniscient be married? That gal named Sally who works at Hooters in Houston?

                                The Scriptures already makes it plainly clear that there were pagan gods being placed in the temple for worship which explain this matter already. All this other talk is vanity and foolishness.

                                Now you are all over the place in an explosion of unrelated and unconnected foolishness.

                                The Gospel of Thomas as discarded and thrown away because it was clearly written by a poser and charlatan and is filled with foolishness.... it was not hidden or suppressed, it was DISCARDED as it ought to have been.


                                Der Kimster


                                On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 6:04 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Well some would say that we worship Mary today in Catholicism. Certainly in mainstream Chrisitanity there is no doubt that God did  not/does not have a wife. But who is to say that at one time this was accepted and then someone..Ezekial, Jeremiah...whoever.. threw a fit and rooted that out? The gospel of Thomas was thrown out by that second century bishop Irenaeus.. who was influential in deciding the Canon of the Bible, but what if he had accepted the Gospel of Thomas? and then we would all be thinking we had to change into men to attain the kindom of heaven... Ack!  I think the same sort of thing went on a long time ago with a lot of  people deciding that indeed God did have a wife. Just because we don't believe it now doesn't mean it didnt' happen. Allison

                                Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 5:26:16 AM

                                Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                                 

                                The concept doesn't offend me, but the pairing of a pagan god with Yahweh is like mixing oil with water. If we think that the current display of religious manifestations are abundant in number, remember that at that point in time, there were even more wild sects practicing their own theologies. I'm sure that one of those sects "married" Ishtar to Yahweh in an attempt to keep one's goddess in the face of the growing number of the Israelite faithful, but having read most of the books considered for inclusion in the Bible, but rejected for one reason or another, I've yet to see anything that stated that within the roots of Christianity, God had a wife.

                                The most absurd thing I've read is in the Book of Thomas wherein Jesus tells Mary that in order to gain heaven, she must become a man. lol Thank goodness the wisdom of the early church fathers prevailed.

                                Lin

                                On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 7:07 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Oh I don't think it is all that stupid. Certainly it  offends current day practitioners of the faith. Allison


                                From: Lin Kerns <linkerns@...>
                                To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 10:45:15 PM

                                Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                                 

                                I have to agree with Kim. Ishtar was one of the high goddesses of Egypt and she was worshiped as far back as the Sumerians. Astarte is still worshiped in some witches' covens, and her name stretches even farther back in time. But the claim that she was the Israelite God's wife is so absurd.

                                The reason that both statues shared the Temple is that this was a time before the Temple was *cleansed," and the pagans wanted a deity of theirs to be represented. Simple.

                                Imagine two strangers sitting beside each other in church; association does not imply marriage. Also, what if their names appeared together in conversation or the Book of the Elect. Still sounds silly to imply something more than what's in your face.

                                Stupid. Stupid. stupidstupidstupid.

                                Lin


                                On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...> wrote:
                                 

                                This is beyond stupid...... this was a heathen pagan god introduced into the temple as oft happened during the history of the First Temple.... no news bulletin here other than the vapid and vacuous assertions of this pseudo-intellectual trying desperately to come up with an angle in order to garner attention.... and succeeding!

                                Kimmer

                                On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, <robert-blau@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Make the story and its significance fairly clear . . .

                                God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible -- Almost
                                Discovery News [USA], Mar 18, 2011

                                God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped
                                alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford
                                scholar. In 1967, Raphael Patai was the first historian to mention that
                                the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah. The theory has
                                gained new prominence due to the research of Francesca Stavrakopoulou,
                                who began her work at Oxford and is now a senior lecturer in the
                                department of Theology and Religion at the University of Exeter. "After
                                years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel,
                                however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some,
                                uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added. J. Edward
                                Wright, president of both The Arizona Center for Judaic Studies and The
                                Albright Institute for Archaeological Research, told Discovery News that
                                he agrees several Hebrew inscriptions mention "Yahweh and his Asherah."
                                "Asherah was not entirely edited out of the Bible by its male editors,"
                                he added.

                                http://news.discovery.com/history/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.html




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                              • Allison Loukanis
                                I agree...you need to babysit yourself. Have a nice day too. Allison ________________________________ From: Kim Noyes To:
                                Message 15 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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                                  I agree...you need to babysit yourself. Have a nice day too. Allison


                                  From: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...>
                                  To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 9:28:55 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                                   

                                  Allison,

                                  I can no longer afford the time to babysit you here. I have to go to work. Your comments have been weighed and acknowledged and your premise refuted. You are doing a lot of projected upon me what rightly applies to you. Nice dodge. Your articles inadequately support your contention. Let us agree to disagree. The relative weights of your view shared by the person whose claims started this thread versus my rebuttals are out there for the membership to judge for themselves. Have a nice day.

                                  Der Kimster


                                  On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  Like I said..hit a nerve. Perhaps you are right..let me think...hmm. no I think I am. lol... give it up.. what are you trying to do, prove me wrong? This is unprovable and there is room for allsorts of thinking here. Go take an ice bath and calm down. Allison

                                  Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 9:16:49 AM

                                  Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                                   

                                  NO, you are the one experiencing an apparent intellectual meltdown. You have stated nothing intelligent thus far this morning.

                                  You are discussing neither theology nor history... you are not actually directly addressing any of the facts or logical ideas I have presented but keep contentiously arguing for arguing's sake while constantly either repeated what you stated before that was already refuted or going on to some other angle that is no more helpful to the general thrust of what you are vainly attempting to prove.

                                  Der Kimster



                                  On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  Wow this really hit a nerve..this is history not theology...it bears repeating. You must behaving a religious meltdown.Allison


                                  From: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...>
                                  To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 8:41:39 AM

                                  Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                                   

                                  Everything that is in the Scriptures is precisely what God wanted placed there....  nobody free-lanced and rooted anything out that God had placed there originally and such idle speculation to the contrary is vapid and utterly unsupported by the facts.

                                  You are anthropomorphizing God to suggest He needs a wife for sexual gratification and reproduction and domestic help and companionship when we are talking about a non-corporeal Creator of the Universes that has already introduced Himself as having three personalities: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

                                  God created us in His image - we DID NOT create Him in our image. We don't decide if He was married or not. To whom would a God that is triune and non-corporeal and omnipresent and omnipotent and omniscient be married? That gal named Sally who works at Hooters in Houston?

                                  The Scriptures already makes it plainly clear that there were pagan gods being placed in the temple for worship which explain this matter already. All this other talk is vanity and foolishness.

                                  Now you are all over the place in an explosion of unrelated and unconnected foolishness.

                                  The Gospel of Thomas as discarded and thrown away because it was clearly written by a poser and charlatan and is filled with foolishness.... it was not hidden or suppressed, it was DISCARDED as it ought to have been.


                                  Der Kimster


                                  On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 6:04 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  Well some would say that we worship Mary today in Catholicism. Certainly in mainstream Chrisitanity there is no doubt that God did  not/does not have a wife. But who is to say that at one time this was accepted and then someone..Ezekial, Jeremiah...whoever.. threw a fit and rooted that out? The gospel of Thomas was thrown out by that second century bishop Irenaeus.. who was influential in deciding the Canon of the Bible, but what if he had accepted the Gospel of Thomas? and then we would all be thinking we had to change into men to attain the kindom of heaven... Ack!  I think the same sort of thing went on a long time ago with a lot of  people deciding that indeed God did have a wife. Just because we don't believe it now doesn't mean it didnt' happen. Allison

                                  Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 5:26:16 AM

                                  Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                                   

                                  The concept doesn't offend me, but the pairing of a pagan god with Yahweh is like mixing oil with water. If we think that the current display of religious manifestations are abundant in number, remember that at that point in time, there were even more wild sects practicing their own theologies. I'm sure that one of those sects "married" Ishtar to Yahweh in an attempt to keep one's goddess in the face of the growing number of the Israelite faithful, but having read most of the books considered for inclusion in the Bible, but rejected for one reason or another, I've yet to see anything that stated that within the roots of Christianity, God had a wife.

                                  The most absurd thing I've read is in the Book of Thomas wherein Jesus tells Mary that in order to gain heaven, she must become a man. lol Thank goodness the wisdom of the early church fathers prevailed.

                                  Lin

                                  On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 7:07 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  Oh I don't think it is all that stupid. Certainly it  offends current day practitioners of the faith. Allison


                                  From: Lin Kerns <linkerns@...>
                                  To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 10:45:15 PM

                                  Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                                   

                                  I have to agree with Kim. Ishtar was one of the high goddesses of Egypt and she was worshiped as far back as the Sumerians. Astarte is still worshiped in some witches' covens, and her name stretches even farther back in time. But the claim that she was the Israelite God's wife is so absurd.

                                  The reason that both statues shared the Temple is that this was a time before the Temple was *cleansed," and the pagans wanted a deity of theirs to be represented. Simple.

                                  Imagine two strangers sitting beside each other in church; association does not imply marriage. Also, what if their names appeared together in conversation or the Book of the Elect. Still sounds silly to imply something more than what's in your face.

                                  Stupid. Stupid. stupidstupidstupid.

                                  Lin


                                  On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  This is beyond stupid...... this was a heathen pagan god introduced into the temple as oft happened during the history of the First Temple.... no news bulletin here other than the vapid and vacuous assertions of this pseudo-intellectual trying desperately to come up with an angle in order to garner attention.... and succeeding!

                                  Kimmer

                                  On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, <robert-blau@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  Make the story and its significance fairly clear . . .

                                  God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible -- Almost
                                  Discovery News [USA], Mar 18, 2011

                                  God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped
                                  alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford
                                  scholar. In 1967, Raphael Patai was the first historian to mention that
                                  the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah. The theory has
                                  gained new prominence due to the research of Francesca Stavrakopoulou,
                                  who began her work at Oxford and is now a senior lecturer in the
                                  department of Theology and Religion at the University of Exeter. "After
                                  years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel,
                                  however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some,
                                  uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added. J. Edward
                                  Wright, president of both The Arizona Center for Judaic Studies and The
                                  Albright Institute for Archaeological Research, told Discovery News that
                                  he agrees several Hebrew inscriptions mention "Yahweh and his Asherah."
                                  "Asherah was not entirely edited out of the Bible by its male editors,"
                                  he added.

                                  http://news.discovery.com/history/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.html




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                                • Bob Matter
                                  Well, I believe in both gods. Money AND gunpowder. -Bob M. Chicago
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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                                    Well, I believe in both gods.  Money AND gunpowder.

                                    -Bob M.
                                    Chicago
                                  • Dale A. Wood
                                    Have you ever read the non-canonical book in which the figure Daniel is a prominent character?  I have not, nor do I intend to. I just heard about it from a
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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                                      Have you ever read the non-canonical book in which the figure Daniel is a prominent character? 
                                      I have not, nor do I intend to. I just heard about it from a TV program on either The History Channel or the Discovery Channel.
                                       
                                      In any case, Daniel seemed to be a cool dude (!) in this one.
                                       
                                      Also, I have read of a significant group of Catholics who want to make Mary a "co-redeemer", along with Jesus Christ.
                                      In a way, that would make Mary the "Wife of God" as well as the "Mother of God".   "Mother of God" never made much sense to me, probably because I usually think of God as "God the Father", but I am a Unitarian anyway.
                                       
                                      Unitarianism began a long time ago as a rebellion against the concept of the Trinity, though it has moved a long way from that and also merged with Universalism. Universalism began in the Colonies of New England as a rebellion against the Presbyterians and the Separatists.
                                       
                                      My only sister has converted to Presbyterianism. I say, "No wonder that we were always like oil and water." 
                                      Religiously, I am actually a Skeptic. 
                                      Look it up in www.Wikipedia.org and other Web sites if you want to know what that is. 
                                       
                                      Just before he was going to be shot in South Africa for alleged war crimes, the Australian soldier Breaker Morant was inquired as to his religion. He replied, "I am a pagan." Then, when his buddy who was going to be shot on the same day was asked the same question, he replied, "I'm a pagan, too."
                                       
                                      Breaker Morant got his nickname of "Breaker" because of his great ability at breaking horses to saddleback riding back in his home state in Australia. Morant was a one of a good deal of Aussie soldiers who got sent to South Africa to fight against the Boers there on behalf of the British Empire, which in the last years of Queen Victoria (like 1898 - 1901, or so). The Boers were setters whose ancestors has migrated from the area that we now call the Netherlands, Belgium, and Luxembourg.
                                       
                                      [This was during the same period of time when Dutchmen were settling in New Holland and New Amsterdam, which were later taken over by the British and made into New York and New York City. A Dutchman "bought" Manhattan Island from the Indians for an assorment of knick-knacks, including a clock -- but the Indians did not understand the concept of owning land, buying it, and selling it. That was simply not part of their culture. Dutch people in New York became the ancestors of Theodore Roosevelt, Eleanor Roosevelt, and Franklin D. Roosevelt. 
                                      Now, it has just occured to me that this was a reason why the Dutchmen in New York State fought so hard against the British during the Revolutionary War -- they hated being ruled by the British, and they were gung-ho in favor of Independence. Major victories over the British Army occurred at places in New York like Fort Ticonderoga, Saratoga, Oriskany, White Plains, and so forth -- though the British did occupy New York City for nearly the entire Revolutionary War.]
                                       
                                      Other Dutchmen settled in places like (the future) Indonesia (the Dutch East Indies), Surinam, and the Dutch West Indies.] 
                                       
                                      I don't know whether Breaker Morant lived to see the founding of the Dominion of Australia on January 1, 1901, or not. That was when six different self-governing British Dominions unified to form a new country (still a part of the British Empire). Clockwise from the northeast, these were Queensland, New South Wales, Tasmania, Victoria, South Australia, and Western Australia.
                                       
                                      [The Australian Capital Territory was founded in southeastern New South Wales (at Canberra) in about 1912, but that place was not ready for the Australian Parliament to meet there until 1927. Neither Sydney nor Melbourne was willing to allow the other to become the permanent capital city, so a compromise was drawn, just as in the United States. An Australian Capital Territory (A.C.T.) was chosen in a good location, and the capital was built there. In this compromise, Melbourne was the temporary capital until the new one could be built, but the was selected from land in New South Wales with the provision that it be placed at least 120 miles from Sydney. Then, the Australian Parliament sent out surveyors to find a good place for a new capital city -- and they chose well, considering how nice the climate is there. Also, Canberra was built about halfway between Sydney and Melbourne. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canberra.   
                                       
                                      After an international competition, two American architects & city planners, Mr. and Mrs. Walter Burleigh Griffin of Chicago, Illinois, were chosen to lay out the design of the new city. There is a large artificial lake in Canberra that was in the Griffin's plan, but the detailed designa wan not worked out and this lake completed until 1964. It is named Lake Burley Griffin. The full names of the two planners were Walter Burley Griffin (1876 - 1937), a graduate of the University of Illinois in Urbana-Chanpaign.
                                      Marion Mahony Griffin (1871 - 1961), a graduate of M.I.T.  
                                      These two architects both worked for the giant of American architecture, Frank Lloyd Wright http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Lloyd_Wright
                                      in Oak Park, Illinois (in Chicagoland), and they decided to marry each other in 1911. They remained married to each other until Mr. Griffin's untimely death of an infection following gall-bladder surgery in India in 1937. 
                                      That was not a good time or place to have surgery done in 1937 -- especially elective abdominal surgery -- because there were not any antibiotics in 1937. In cases of emergency, abdominal surgery had been done successfully my earlier, such as back in the 1880s, when the Prince of Wales, the son of Queen Victoria, suffered from appendicitis. He recovered from his operation and he went on to become King Edward VII in 1901. He lived though 1910.     
                                       -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                       
                                      For more on the whole story of Morant, see the film Breaker Morant, which starred an outstanding Aussie actor Bryan Brown (who is from Sydney, New South Wales). I just remember that he was the same actor who was in the award-winning film Gorillas in the Mist along with Sigourney Weaver (as Diane Fossey), as the boyfriend (Bill Campbell) who wanted her to move to Borneo with him while he photographed orangutans for National Geographic magazine. So, Mr. Brown had a period of time of making several films about Africa. 
                                       
                                      If you look at the history of films in the 1980s, you will see that Gorillas in the Mist came out within a few years of the film Out of Africa. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980s_in_film   
                                      Gorillas in the Mist made its premiere on September 23, 1988 (probably in Los Angeles), and in the following year, it received nominations for Academy Awards in these categories: 
                                      Best Actress in a Leading Role (Ms. Weaver) 
                                      Best Original Score (written by Maurice Jarre)
                                      Best Screenplay based on material from another medium 
                                      Best Film Editing 
                                      Best Sound
                                       
                                      I think that this one should have been nominated also for Best Picture and Best Cinematography (by John Seale)  -- the latter because I just adored the photography in this one from the first time that I saw it. I also think that Ms. Weaver should have won for Best Actress.
                                       
                                      In the Golden Globe Awards, Ms. Weaver won for  Best Performance by an Actress in a Motion Picture - Drama
                                      (in which she was tied with both Shirley MacLaine and Jodie Foster.) Mr. Jarre won the Golden Globe for Best Original Score - Motion Picture, and the film was nominated for Best Motion Picture - Drama. 
                                      Two writers for this film were also nominated by the Writers' Guild of America for Best Screenplay Based on Material from Another Medium. 
                                       
                                      Out of Africa premiered on December 18, 1985 (probably in Los Angeles, also). This film is about the real life of the Danish writer Karen Blixen (played by Meryl Streep), mostly in Kenya during World War I and in the following decade, and it was much higher recognized by Hollywood and the critics. 

                                      Out of Africa won the Academy Awards for

                                      Best Picture
                                      Best Director (Sydney Pollack -- who passed away just recently)
                                      Best Adapted Screenplay
                                      Best Cinematography (David Watkin)
                                      Best Original Music Score (Sir John Barry -- who passed away just recently) 
                                      Best Art Direction
                                      Best Sound 
                                      I just adore the photography and the music for this film!
                                       
                                      Out of Africa was also nominated for Oscars for  
                                      Best Actress -- Meryl Streep -- who should have won it
                                      Best Supporting Actor -- Klaus Maria Brandauer
                                      Costume Design
                                      Film Editing
                                       
                                      Out of Africa also won Golden Globe Awards for
                                      Best Motion Picture - Drama
                                      Best Original Score - Sir John Barry
                                      Best Supporting Actor in a Motion Picture -- Klaus Maria Brandauer
                                      Also, it was nominated for Golden Globes for
                                      Best Director in a Motion Picture -- Sidney Pollack
                                      Best Actress in a Motion Picture -- Meryl Streep
                                      Best Screenplay for a Motion Picture -- Kurt Luedtke
                                       
                                      By the Los Angeles Film Critics Association:
                                      Best Actress -- won by Meryl Streep, so someone adored her performance in this film besides me
                                      Best Cinematography -- won by David Watkin
                                       
                                      By the Writers' Guild of America:
                                      Nominated: Best Screenplay Based on Material from Another Medium -- Kurt Luedtke
                                       
                                      I did not like Klaus Maria Brandauer very much, but he played a very greasy character, and the authorities recognize how difficult this is to do well.
                                      Sorry, I am prejudiced, so I think that a Best Actor is someone
                                      like George C. Scott as Patton, and in Dr. Strangelove
                                      Clark Gable in It Happened One Night, Mutiny on the Bounty, and Gone with the Wind
                                      Spencer Tracy in Boy's Town, The Old Man and the Sea, and Inherit the Wind,
                                      Gary Cooper in Sergeant York and Pride of the Yankees
                                      Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca, The African Queen, and The Caine Mutiny,
                                      Henry Fonda in The Grapes of Wrath
                                      Gregory Peck 12 O'Clock High and MacArthur
                                      Walter Pidgeon in Forbidden Planet and Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea
                                      Charlton Heston in Ben-Hur and The Planet of the Apes
                                      Burt Lancaster in From Here to Eternity and The Birdman of Alcatraz,
                                      Rex Harrison in My Fair Lady
                                      Sir Alec Guinness in The Bridge on the River Kwai, Star Wars, and The Empire Strikes Back
                                      Kirk Douglas in Spartacus
                                      Peter Sellers in Dr. Strangelove
                                      Paul Newman in Cool Hand Luke
                                      William Holden in Stalag 17 and The Bridge on the River Kwai
                                      Robert Redford in The Sting and Out of Africa
                                      Peter Finch in Network ("I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!"). Sadly, Mr. Finch died before receiving his Oscar.
                                      Dustin Hoffman in Kramer vs. Kramer, Tootsie, and Rain Man
                                      Robert Duvall in Tender Mercies
                                      F. Murray Abraham in Amadeus (in a sinister role as Saliari, but what the heck!) and in Gandhi
                                      Michael Douglas in Wall Street -- even though he played the ultimate in greasy characters, Gordon Gekko -- and in Fatal Attraction
                                      Tom Cruise in Born on the Fourth of July and Top Gun
                                      (Mr. Cruise was nominated for others, but I have never seen them.) 
                                      Liam Neeson in Schindler's List
                                      Tom Hanks in Forrest Gump, Saving Private Ryan, and Apollo 13
                                      Russell Crowe in A Beautiful Mind
                                      Joaquin Phoenix in Walk the Line
                                      Harrison Ford in American Graffiti, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, The Return of the Jedi, Working Girl, Witness, The Fugitive, Patriot Games, Clear and Present Danger, Presumed Innocent, and Air Force One,
                                      Mr. Ford has only ever been nominated for one Academy Award for a film: Witness -- but what the heck? I love him, anyway.
                                       
                                      Cheers, DAW     

                                      From: Lin Kerns <linkerns@...>
                                      Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"
                                      To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 7:26 AM

                                      The concept doesn't offend me, but the pairing of a pagan god with Yahweh is like mixing oil with water. If we think that the current display of religious manifestations are abundant in number, remember that at that point in time, there were even more wild sects practicing their own theologies. I'm sure that one of those sects "married" Ishtar to Yahweh in an attempt to keep one's goddess in the face of the growing number of the Israelite faithful, but having read most of the books considered for inclusion in the Bible, but rejected for one reason or another, I've yet to see anything that stated that within the roots of Christianity, God had a wife.

                                      The most absurd thing I've read is in the Book of Thomas wherein Jesus tells Mary that in order to gain heaven, she must become a man. lol Thank goodness the wisdom of the early church fathers prevailed.

                                      Lin

                                      On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 7:07 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:

                                      Oh I don't think it is all that stupid. Certainly it  offends current day practitioners of the faith. Allison

                                      From: Lin Kerns <linkerns@...>
                                      To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 10:45:15 PM

                                      Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                                      I have to agree with Kim. Ishtar was one of the high goddesses of Egypt and she was worshiped as far back as the Sumerians. Astarte is still worshiped in some witches' covens, and her name stretches even farther back in time. But the claim that she was the Israelite God's wife is so absurd.

                                      The reason that both statues shared the Temple is that this was a time before the Temple was *cleansed," and the pagans wanted a deity of theirs to be represented. Simple.

                                      Imagine two strangers sitting beside each other in church; association does not imply marriage. Also, what if their names appeared together in conversation or the Book of the Elect. Still sounds silly to imply something more than what's in your face.

                                      Stupid. Stupid. stupidstupidstupid.

                                      Lin

                                      On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...> wrote:

                                      This is beyond stupid...... this was a heathen pagan god introduced into the temple as oft happened during the history of the First Temple.... no news bulletin here other than the vapid and vacuous assertions of this pseudo-intellectual trying desperately to come up with an angle in order to garner attention.... and succeeding!

                                      Kimmer

                                      On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, <robert-blau@...> wrote:
                                      Make the story and its significance fairly clear . . .

                                      God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible -- Almost
                                      Discovery News [USA], Mar 18, 2011

                                      God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford scholar. In 1967, Raphael Patai was the first historian to mention that the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah. The theory has gained new prominence due to the research of Francesca Stavrakopoulou, who began her work at Oxford and [who] is now a senior lecturer in the Department of Theology and Religion at the University of Exeter. "After
                                      years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel,
                                      however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some, uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added. J. Edward Wright, president of both The Arizona Center for Judaic Studies and The Albright Institute for Archaeological Research, told Discovery News that he agrees several Hebrew inscriptions mention "Yahweh and his Asherah."
                                      "Asherah was not entirely edited out of the Bible by its male editors," he added.

                                      http://news.discovery.com/history/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.html 
                                    • Elena Vaccaro
                                      Allison, you have set off one of my pet peeves. The implication that humans (or hominins) of earlier times were much less sophisticated than we are today.
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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                                        Allison, you have set off one of my pet peeves.

                                        The implication that humans (or hominins) of earlier times were much less sophisticated than we are today.

                                        Those individuals had the same size brains that we do now. Granted they did not have the technology we do today (there are pros and cons with this in my opinion), but that does not mean they did not have the same capacity to think and reason.

                                        Maintaining and fostering a culture as complex as the ancient Israelites had took considerable brain power considering the Torah was transmitted orally for generations before it was written down, like many other cultures (like the Celts, and other pre-writing civilizations).

                                        Even before these cultures existed, the hunter-gatherers that preceded them had to maintain not only their day to day existence, they conceived ways of worship that we do/have not discovered today.

                                        The hunting practices and weapons were very sophisticated in construction and innovations that matured over thousands of years from crude spears with the tips hardened in fire to elegant bows and arrows with beautiful flint and stone tips. And this is just the Paleolithic (Stone Age). Have you ever attempted to get close to a deer without spooking it? And not in an animal park either.

                                        Throw in the processing of the hides from those animals, gathering and processing of the other food items, not to mention remembering where they were in a very large area, without the luxury of writing down where they were and when they would be available for harvest is something that I respect. But these people had to do it if they wanted to survive.

                                        I for one would not want to attempt to live that type of life. 

                                        On the subject of 'God's Wife', while I believe in God, and think ALL sacred texts are inspired, I also think they came through a living breathing person. Those living, breathing people are subject to making errors in the reception. Then subsequent generations believe they have to edit those inspirations to fit the sacred text to reflect the way they believe.

                                        One of the books I have read on the subject is "The Sacred Executioner" by Hyam Maccoby.

                                        It is also possible there were hold overs from when Abram left Sumer and went into the desert.

                                        LIFE IS NOT MEASURED BY THE BREATH WE TAKE
                                        BUT BY THE MOMENTS THAT TAKE OUR BREATH AWAY

                                        >^,,^<

                                        Elena

                                        --- On Fri, 4/1/11, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:

                                        From: Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...>
                                        Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"
                                        To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 12:05 PM



                                        Nope don't agree with you there either. Really no one can prove anything here... not that God had a wife, not that there is even a god.. rather I just said that it  looks like there is evidence for the fact that a lot of people believed that God did have a wife once up on a time. And I  produced some articles that said the same thing. You are looking too much at theology...not enough at the actual facts. This is a group about history, right? not theology. It makes for a nice debate. Of course there is no mention of God's wife obviously in the Bible although some of the articles I sent refer to some oblique references. Also today in accepted Christian theology there is no place for God to have a wife. But  a longtime ago in a less sophisticated culture, it looks like God might have had a wife. And likely someone like Jeremiah reacted just like you did... possibly he was a relative? Geez. Quit confusing the theology of  today with the  simple ways of yesterday. Allison



                                      • Allison Loukanis
                                        Everyone is upset today. Ok , Elena. Allison ________________________________ From: Elena Vaccaro To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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                                          Everyone is upset today. Ok , Elena. Allison


                                          From: Elena Vaccaro <earthandice@...>
                                          To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 12:36:48 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"

                                           

                                          Allison, you have set off one of my pet peeves.

                                          The implication that humans (or hominins) of earlier times were much less sophisticated than we are today.

                                          Those individuals had the same size brains that we do now. Granted they did not have the technology we do today (there are pros and cons with this in my opinion), but that does not mean they did not have the same capacity to think and reason.

                                          Maintaining and fostering a culture as complex as the ancient Israelites had took considerable brain power considering the Torah was transmitted orally for generations before it was written down, like many other cultures (like the Celts, and other pre-writing civilizations).

                                          Even before these cultures existed, the hunter-gatherers that preceded them had to maintain not only their day to day existence, they conceived ways of worship that we do/have not discovered today.

                                          The hunting practices and weapons were very sophisticated in construction and innovations that matured over thousands of years from crude spears with the tips hardened in fire to elegant bows and arrows with beautiful flint and stone tips. And this is just the Paleolithic (Stone Age). Have you ever attempted to get close to a deer without spooking it? And not in an animal park either.

                                          Throw in the processing of the hides from those animals, gathering and processing of the other food items, not to mention remembering where they were in a very large area, without the luxury of writing down where they were and when they would be available for harvest is something that I respect. But these people had to do it if they wanted to survive.

                                          I for one would not want to attempt to live that type of life. 

                                          On the subject of 'God's Wife', while I believe in God, and think ALL sacred texts are inspired, I also think they came through a living breathing person. Those living, breathing people are subject to making errors in the reception. Then subsequent generations believe they have to edit those inspirations to fit the sacred text to reflect the way they believe.

                                          One of the books I have read on the subject is "The Sacred Executioner" by Hyam Maccoby.

                                          It is also possible there were hold overs from when Abram left Sumer and went into the desert.

                                          LIFE IS NOT MEASURED BY THE BREATH WE TAKE
                                          BUT BY THE MOMENTS THAT TAKE OUR BREATH AWAY

                                          >^,,^<

                                          Elena

                                          --- On Fri, 4/1/11, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:

                                          From: Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...>
                                          Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] More on "God's Wife"
                                          To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 12:05 PM



                                          Nope don't agree with you there either. Really no one can prove anything here... not that God had a wife, not that there is even a god.. rather I just said that it  looks like there is evidence for the fact that a lot of people believed that God did have a wife once up on a time. And I  produced some articles that said the same thing. You are looking too much at theology...not enough at the actual facts. This is a group about history, right? not theology. It makes for a nice debate. Of course there is no mention of God's wife obviously in the Bible although some of the articles I sent refer to some oblique references. Also today in accepted Christian theology there is no place for God to have a wife. But  a longtime ago in a less sophisticated culture, it looks like God might have had a wife. And likely someone like Jeremiah reacted just like you did... possibly he was a relative? Geez. Quit confusing the theology of  today with the  simple ways of yesterday. Allison



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