Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [allthingshistory] The reason that Haiti is poor ISN'T voodoo

Expand Messages
  • Kim Noyes
    Whoa, whoa, whoa! Think about what you just said? We let the Duvalier s steal the wealth of the Haitian people implies we have any sort of duty to stop that
    Message 1 of 119 , Feb 1, 2010
      Whoa, whoa, whoa!

      Think about what you just said? We let the Duvalier's steal the wealth of the Haitian people implies we have any sort of duty to stop that which is not only false but defies logic and rationality.

      We have to pick and choose our battles as to where we will intrude into another nation's internal matters because we can't do it in all of them nor should we even if we could.

      Cuba is a different matter.

      Cuba benefits from a lot of outside money and always has as well as being located on a larger and more resource-wealthy island that is located a lot closer to the source of a lot of that outside money.

      On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:11 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@...> wrote:
       

      We sacrificed the Haitians by letting the Duvaliers steal all their money. I look at Cuba. Their brand of communism sent a lot of Cubans here but Cuba is  still in better shape than the Haitians, economically.  Why?  Well I dunno. I am no ecomonist but hey.. maybe they do a better job of smuggling cigars here. Allison

      --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...> wrote:

      From: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...>

      Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] The reason that Haiti is poor ISN'T voodoo
      To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 6:36 AM


       
      Oh? And how did we sacrifice Haitians? How were the Duvalier's of that era any worse than the Communist alternative waiting in the wings to take their place?

      On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 6:40 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@ att.net> wrote:
       
      No no.. the US was willing to sacrifice the Haitians. Papa Doc stole from his own country. We still have our democracy here. Allison


      --- On Sun, 1/31/10, morten hansen <grusvei@yahoo. no> wrote:

      From: morten hansen <grusvei@yahoo. no>
      Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] The reason that Haiti is poor ISN'T voodoo
      To: allthingshistory@ yahoogroups. com
      Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 8:57 AM


       
      Many poor countries through no fault of their own got caught up in the cold war and were used as pawns by either the Russians or the US. I don't know enough about papa doc DUvalier to know which side supported him. But I would not be surprised if it was the United states. The US supported many dictatorships around the world, look at Chile and El Salvador. Stopping communism is one thing, but at what price? The United states was willing to sacrifice the democracy they fought for.
       

      --- Den søn 2010-01-31 skrev Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@gmail. com>:

      Fra: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@gmail. com>
      Emne: Re: [allthingshistory] The reason that Haiti is poor ISN'T voodoo
      Til: allthingshistory@ yahoogroups. com
      Dato: Søndag 31. januar 2010 05.35

       
      It is the responsibilty of every society to choose the form of government they are willing to live under and that even applies to autocracies like dictatorships which must rule by concent ultimately as any society has the ability to overwhelm even the Stalins and Hitlers of this world. Those men and men like them ruled because enough people went along with the program because they either ideologically believed in it and/or saw a chance to to enhance their own lot in life. The Hatians have voted with their feet by not changing the dominant paradigm.

      On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 1:13 PM, <robert-blau@ webtv.net> wrote:
       
      http://www.salon. com/mwt/feature/ 2010/01/13/ haiti_satan_ pact/index. html

      "The reason Haiti is poor is because Europe imposed a blockade on trade
      after the slave revolt in 1804, and you have an extremely polarized
      class structure in which a few families stepped into the positions of
      the former colonial plantation owners. There has been a horrible cycle
      of plundering and autocracy within Haitian leadership."

      Sound familiar?
       




      --
      Check out http://groups. yahoo..com/ group/california disasters/
      Read our blog at http://eclecticarca nia.blogspot. com/
      Visit me on Facebook at http://www.facebook .com/derkimster
      Visit my Myspace at http://www.myspace. com/kimusinterup tus
      We have an Ebay store at http://stores. ebay.com/ K-K-Earthwerks

      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
      Bruker du Yahoo!?
      Lei av spam? Yahoo! Mail har den beste spambeskyttelsen
      http://no.mail. yahoo.com



      --
      Check out http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/california disasters/
      Read our blog at http://eclecticarca nia.blogspot. com/
      Visit me on Facebook at http://www.facebook .com/derkimster
      Visit my Myspace at http://www.myspace. com/kimusinterup tus
      We have an Ebay store at http://stores. ebay.com/ K-K-Earthwerks



      --
      Check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/californiadisasters/
      Read our blog at http://eclecticarcania.blogspot.com/
      Visit me on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/derkimster
      Visit my Myspace at http://www.myspace.com/kimusinteruptus
      We have an Ebay store at http://stores.ebay.com/K-K-Earthwerks
    • Allison Loukanis
      LOl.. you are funny. When I asked them to buy the other books I did not know if they were worthy. Found out afterwards. That is what libraries are for.
      Message 119 of 119 , Feb 16, 2010
        LOl.. you are funny. When I asked them to buy the other books I did not know if they were worthy. Found out afterwards. That is what libraries are for. smile..Allison

        --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...> wrote:

        From: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...>
        Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] religion...for Gabriel
        To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 3:36 AM

         
        Don't go asking them to buy a book you have not even read as it might or might not be worthy.

        On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@ att.net> wrote:
         
        OK thanks for telling me.. my library has been very good about buying books I  have asked them to buy. They bought that book about Africa..Dead Aid by Dambisa Moyo, plus another one. They might buy yours if I ask them too. I am one of their best patrons and also they make a lot of money off me as I am constantly either paying my late fees or my kids' late fees...lol.
          I just got thru reading a book by Sharon Kay Penman called Falls the Shadow. It was about Simon De Montfort back in the reign of Henry lll, who was John Lackland's son. Apparently Simon de Montfort was one of the earliest European aristocrats in favor of representational government and he ultimately died for it.. but what is also interesting is that he did what he could to protect the Jews of London. Apparently in London at this time \1250 or so anti semitism was at its worst. Fascinating book. I highly recommend . Allison
         
        .
        --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Gabriel Wilensky <gwilensky@sixmillio ncrucifixions. com> wrote:


        From: Gabriel Wilensky <gwilensky@sixmillio ncrucifixions. com>
        Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] religion...for Gabriel
        To: allthingshistory@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 6:51 PM


         



        No, it’s not out yet. Official publication date is April 11. It will be available on Amazon, B&N online, and others. Some public libraries will probably have it, but I suspect later. If you want to get it about a month prior to the official publication date you can sign up for an early copy on the book’s site. If you like eBooks, it will be available as an eBook for free for the first month.


        Gabriel


        On 2/8/10 10:37 AM, "Allison Loukanis" <allison.m.loukanis@ att.net> wrote:



        Well your book sounds interesting. Is it ust out or would a public library have it? Allison

        --- On Thu, 2/4/10, Gabriel Wilensky <gwilensky@sixmillio ncrucifixions. com> wrote:


        From: Gabriel Wilensky <gwilensky@sixmillio ncrucifixions. com>
        Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] religion...for Gabriel
        To: allthingshistory@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 8:51 PM

          And I commend you for that, Allison. I think I know what it is you teach your children, and I have no doubt it is all good. The trouble is the “others”, the ones who take things in scriptures or bad admonishments from priests, rabbis or imams to heart and do bad things. It’s interesting you mention baby Nazis, because I agree with you wholeheartedly with your point that he/she gets his philosophy at home (as well as from other authority figures during childhood, such as teachers or priests). Which, if you recall, was my point in our earlier discussion about what could have possibly
        prepared the soil for the Nazis and their helpers throughout Europe to do what they did. This, by the way, is one of the things my book is about.

        Gabriel

        On 2/4/10 7:53 AM, "Allison Loukanis" <allison.m.loukanis@ att.net> wrote:


        They all do that. lol...I just discount it. There are many ways up the mountain. That is how I raise my kids and it all starts with that. A baby Nazi gets his philosophy  from home or at least the ground work that will allow him to be a Nazi. You are right that a lot of blood has been shed in the name of religion and it has to stop. Allison

        --- On Thu, 2/4/10, Gabriel Wilensky <gwilensky@sixmillio ncrucifixions. com> wrote:


        From: Gabriel Wilensky <gwilensky@sixmillio ncrucifixions. com>
        Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] Haiti
        To: allthingshistory@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 2:28 AM

          I think Morten is doing a good job in defending his side of the argument, but if I may, I think his point is that the problem with religions is that they do not do what you are asking him to do, that is, to respect what others believe. Please note I am not talking about you, but rather, religion in general. And the problem goes beyond respect, as at least some religions proselitize and often in a violent way. For most of history most religious groups have zealously claimed their religion was the one, true religion, to the exclusion of all others who often were decimated in the process of shutting them down.

        Gabriel

        On 2/3/10 6:15
        PM, "Allison Loukanis" <allison.m.loukanis@ att.net> wrote:




        Ok wait.. we are venturing into dangerous territory. One's beliefs are one's beliefs. Telling parents not to teach their beliefs is like saying ok you can have kids but just dont' talk to them.. in other words impossible. I could no more not share my religious beliefs with my kids than I could stop breathing. You may equate the Christian supernatural with mythology like fairies,etc. but I don't. In fact why not have faries too? Along with angels? And just where has science taught they don't exist? I believe they do. smile...
        My point is that while you may teach your kids whatever you wish, I will teach mine to believe in my faith.. that is why we live in America, right?
          One good book for atheist kids is The Golden Compass trilogy. Weird but good. I let my kids read it just to see what that philosophy is. They thought it odd but
        interesting.
          Please respect that others believe what they believe. OK? Allison

        --- On Wed, 2/3/10, morten hansen <grusvei@yahoo. no> wrote:


        From: morten hansen <grusvei@yahoo. no>
        Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] Haiti
        To: allthingshistory@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 7:54 PM

          
        When you burn some one at the stake as the catholic church did because they don't believe in God, or when you hang some one as they do in islamic states because they have broken sharia law, you operate in the name on religion. There is no rule in atheism which says you have harm believers. In fact, atheism is make you much more insecure about what to do. You have to struggle with truth, you have to way the evidence. I am not saying there should be no law or no ethical systems that should be imprinted on our children. I just saying that we shouldn't teach them things which science have taught us are false. That includes the existence of pixies, faries,
        elves, angels, demons, gods etc..  

        --- Den ons 2010-02-03 skrev Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@gmail. com>:


        Fra: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@gmail. com>
        Emne: Re: [allthingshistory] Haiti
        Til: allthingshistory@ yahoogroups. com
        Dato: Onsdag 3. februar 2010 17.41

          Outline the difference.. ...your remark below is nothing short of bizarre and has nothing to do with fact-based reality and everything to do with perception as reality (your perception). Is not killing to repress the same thing no matter what the motivation? As I have explained here innumerable times religion does not cause violence, but violent people with some sort of carnal motive use religion as a fig leaf to cover their sin as well as use it to motivate others to follow them in their violent enterprise.

        Der Kimster


        On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 2:49 AM, morten hansen <grusvei@yahoo. no <http://no.mc248
        <http://no.mc248/> . mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=grusvei@ yahoo.no <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=grusvei@ yahoo.no <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=grusvei@ yahoo.no> > > > wrote:

        There is a big difference between the atheist's repression of christians and the christian repression of atheists. Religion always kills because of god. Atheists kill because it happens to fit with some other motivation, political power etc.

        --- Den ons 2010-02-03 skrev Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@gmail. com
        <http://no.mc248 <http://no.mc248/> . mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=kimnoyes@ gmail.com <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=kimnoyes@ gmail.com <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=kimnoyes@ gmail.com> > > >:

        Fra: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@gmail. com <http://no.mc248 <http://no.mc248/> . mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=kimnoyes@ gmail.com <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=kimnoyes@ gmail.com <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=kimnoyes@ gmail.com> > > >
        Emne: Re: [allthingshistory] Haiti
        Til: allthingshistory@ yahoogroups. com <http://no.mc248 <http://no.mc248/> . mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allthingshist ory@yahoogroups. com <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allthingshist ory@yahoogroups. com <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allthingshist ory@yahoogroups. com> > >
        Dato: Onsdag 3. februar 2010 10.31


          The faith the missionaries brought these
        backward nations was an upgrade from the knuckle-dragging ways that preceded.
        Dare I list here the barbaric non-Christian practices seen in Africa of late that are rooted in indigenous beliefs?

        Africa was backward and cruel long before the West shown the light of civilization into the Dark Continent and things as bad as they are certainly are not worse and in many cases not as bad as they would otherwise be were it not for the Christian influence in place.

        Homosexuals have always taken a beating even before the Judeo-Christian- Muslim ethos moved into new areas of the world.
        Biology teachers are not oppressed at nearly the rate Christians are around the world.

        Also, biology teachers don't feed the poor and tend the sick and build schools and homes at nearly the rate Christian missionaries do because they're often too busy grinding their axes about Creationism.

        Atheists in the guise of Communists and Socialists and
        Marxists and Maoists spread the word against God throughout the world over the course of most of the 20th Century with the result being more dead human beings than caused by the Catholic Church throughout its entire history.

        The belief that God is merely a human invention is a figment of the human imagination.

        Der Kimster


        On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:17 AM, morten hansen <grusvei@yahoo. no <http://no.mc248 <http://no.mc248/> . mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=grusvei@ yahoo.no <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=grusvei@ yahoo.no <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=grusvei@ yahoo.no> > > >
        wrote:



        I don't want to belittle the good work done by missionairies. I am just saying that it comes with a price. It means that some countries will have to go through what the west has gone through to get rid of religious influence later on. Countries like Uganda and also Jamaica are terribly religious. You say that "spreading the word of god"  is good... In my opnion it is not, it it just prolonging delusions. However, i realise that "God" , even though he is just a figment of human imagination, might be the only comforting factor in many poor countries. He also serves as a center of organisation. However, the first ones to suffer, are women and homosexuals and biology teachers.

        --- Den ons 2010-02-03 skrev Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@ att.net <http://no.mc248 <http://no.mc248/> . mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allison. m.loukanis@ att.net <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allison. m.loukanis@ att.net <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allison. m.loukanis@ att.net> > > >:

        Fra: Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@ att.net <http://no.mc248 <http://no.mc248/> . mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allison. m.loukanis@ att.net <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allison. m.loukanis@ att.net <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allison. m.loukanis@ att.net> > > >
        Emne: Re: [allthingshistory] Haiti
        Til: allthingshistory@ yahoogroups. com <http://no.mc248 <http://no.mc248/> . mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allthingshist ory@yahoogroups. .com <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allthingshist ory@yahoogroups. .com <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allthingshist ory@yahoogroups. .com> > >
        Dato: Onsdag 3. februar 2010 00.06

          
        MIssionaries have
        done a lot of good work.I would not blame them for the customs of an orthodox society. It isn't a bad thing to have faith in God and try to pass it on... although I am not and never will be an evangelist. Allison

        --- On Tue, 2/2/10, morten hansen <grusvei@yahoo. no> wrote:



        From: morten hansen <grusvei@yahoo. no>
        Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] The reason that Haiti is poor ISN'T voodoo
        To: allthingshistory@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 8:37 PM

          
        This is the result of all those crazy missionaries that have been dumping the west's ideological rubbish in the third world. Give some one who is starving some food and tell him it comes from God.. When you cannot convince anyone with resources, find some one without.

        --- Den tir 2010-02-02 skrev Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@gmail. com>:

        Fra: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@gmail. com>
        Emne: Re: [allthingshistory] The reason that Haiti is poor ISN'T voodoo
        Til: allthingshistory@ yahoogroups. com
        Dato: Tirsdag 2. februar 2010 18.17

          Catholic leaders in the Third World are much more
        conservative and orthodox than their counterparts in the First World.

        On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 6:50 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@ att.net <http://no.mc248 <http://no.mc248/> . mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allison. m.loukanis@ att.net <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allison. m.loukanis@ att.net <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allison. m.loukanis@ att.net> > > > wrote:
          
        Well that is interesting. . about Haitian religion. Thanks.. didn't know that.
         Most of the priests up here that I have talked to are actually pretty  open minded. They willstate the Church's
        position and then talk pretty openly about condoms and birth control. They won't go so far as to support it but they don't negate it all either. And a couple of them have even said that one must do what is best for the family. MInd you, those are the younger ones. Most ofthe older ones.. well, they grew up before birth control was readily available. So  they are very orthodox in their thinking. Allison

        --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Lin Kerns <linkerns@gmail. . com <http://no.mc248 <http://no.mc248/> . mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=linkerns@ gmail.com <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=linkerns@ gmail.com <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo.
        com/mc/compose? to=linkerns@ gmail.com> > > > wrote:

        From: Lin Kerns <linkerns@gmail. com <http://no.mc248 <http://no.mc248/> . mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=linkerns@ gmail.com <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=linkerns@ gmail.com <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=linkerns@ gmail.com> > > >
        Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] The reason that Haiti is poor ISN'T voodoo
        To: allthingshistory@ yahoogroups. com <http://no.mc248 <http://no.mc248/> . mail.yahoo.
        com/mc/compose? to=allthingshist ory@yahoogroups. com <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allthingshist ory@yahoogroups. com <http://no.mc248. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allthingshist ory@yahoogroups. com> > >
        Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 4:03 AM

          On the subject of Haitian religion stats:

        For many years Roman Catholicism was the official religion of Haiti. Its official status was repealed with the enactment of the 1987 constitution; however, neither the government nor the Vatican has renounced the 1860 Concordat that serves as a basis for relations between the two. In many ways Roman Catholicism retains a position of honor, but Haitians are guaranteed the freedom to practice all religions by the constitution.
        According to 1998 estimates, Roman Catholics represent about 80% of the population. Most of the remainder belong to various Protestant denominations, the largest being the Baptist (10%) and Pentecostal (4%) churches. Other significant denominations include Methodists, Episcopalians, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Adventists, and Orthodox. Other religious groups include Jews, Muslims, Rastafarians, and Baha'is. Voodoo, a traditional religion partially derived from West African beliefs, is still widely practiced, often in tandem with Christianity. Voodoo became an officially recognized church in 2001 with the establishment of the Eglise Voudou d'Ayiti (the Voodoo Church of Haiti) and has had a growing attendance since then.

         Religions - Haiti <http://www.nationse <http://www.nationse />  ncyclopedia.
        com/Americas/ Haiti-RELIGIONS. html#ixzz0eLYKb6 Gw <http://www.nationse ncyclopedia. com/Americas/ Haiti-RELIGIONS. html#ixzz0eLYKb6 Gw <http://www.nationse ncyclopedia. com/Americas/ Haiti-RELIGIONS. html#ixzz0eLYKb6 Gw> > >  http://www.nationse <http://www.nationse />  <http://www.nationse / <http://www.nationse /> >  ncyclopedia. com/Americas/ Haiti-RELIGIONS. html#ixzz0eLYKb6 Gw <http://www.nationse <http://www.nationse />  ncyclopedia. ....com/Americas /Haiti-RELIGIONS .html#ixzz0eLYKb 6Gw <http://www.nationse ncyclopedia. ....com/Americas /Haiti-RELIGIONS .html#ixzz0eLYKb 6Gw <http://www.nationse ncyclopedia. ....com/Americas /Haiti-RELIGIONS .html#ixzz0eLYKb 6Gw> > >

        80% is a pretty fair stronghold on indigenous beliefs. I don't know if some Haitians are secretive about birth control methods, but I daresay that much of their thinking is guided by superstition and what those in an authoritative position have told them. Voodoo has become such a force in the country that it would not surprise me if the Haitians imitated the Cubans and their Santeria by using Catholic rituals as
        a way to cover certain aspects of that religion. But I'm digressing.. . the Church hands out a lot of freebies to the Haitians, and (Gads, I hate to say this), as long as this occurs, there is no incentive to get off one's behind and do something about anything.

        Lin

        PS I argue with priests because some of them have some very backward beliefs. If only for my own peace of mind, I tell them the truth. A person needs to be, at least, exposed to it. If they cannot handle it or they become explosive, that's their problem from that point onward. Change comes from within and one should never stop the attempts to live a life as near to the truth as possible.



        On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@ att.net <http://us.mc837 <http://us.mc837/> . mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose?
        to=allison. m.loukanis@ att.net <http://us.mc837. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allison. m.loukanis@ att.net <http://us.mc837. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allison. m.loukanis@ att.net> > > > wrote:
          
        lol.. well I had my tubes tied openly. I have not argued with a priest about it because God gave me a brain so I just do what I think is right for me and for my family. Or do you mean that in Haiti people have to be secret about it? Does the Church  have that strong a hold in that country? Allison

        --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Lin Kerns <linkerns@gmail. com <http://us.mc837 <http://us.mc837/> . mail.yahoo.
        com/mc/compose? to=linkerns@ gmail.com <http://us.mc837. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=linkerns@ gmail.com <http://us.mc837. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=linkerns@ gmail.com> > > > wrote:

        From: Lin Kerns <linkerns@gmail. com <http://us.mc837 <http://us.mc837/> . mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=linkerns@ gmail.com <http://us.mc837. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=linkerns@ gmail.com <http://us.mc837. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=linkerns@ gmail.com> > >
        >
        Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] The reason that Haiti is poor ISN'T voodoo
        To: allthingshistory@ yahoogroups. com <http://us.mc837 <http://us.mc837/> . mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allthingshist ory@yahoogroups. com <http://us.mc837. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allthingshist ory@yahoogroups. com <http://us.mc837. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allthingshist ory@yahoogroups. com> > >
        Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 6:52 PM

          
        Well, condoms might as well be banned in Haiti, as the Church teaches to "go forth and multiply" and that birth control, except for the rhythm method, is taboo. I know many
        Catholics here who secretly take bc pills, who have secretly had themselves sterilized, and like you say, hold condoms within the dark confines of their wallets. It's an archaic belief and needs to go away. If the Church can accept women's rights, then it makes no sense to continue to to treat women as brood mares. And yes, I am one to argue with a priest about it. LOL It's a wonder I haven't been excommunicated.

        Lin

        On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Allison Loukanis <allison.m.loukanis@ att.net <http://us.mc837 <http://us.mc837/> . mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allison. m.loukanis@ att.net <http://us.mc837. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allison. m.loukanis@ att.net <http://us.mc837. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allison. m.loukanis@ att.net> > > > wrote:
          
        The Catholic Church will never give up on the population thing. They will never officially sanction condoms or anything that will  not perpetrate an " openness to life". Maybe someday if women have a bigger role in the Church , they will but I doubt it. They are way too patriarchal.  Having said that it is up to others who are a bit more practical to just bring in condoms. They don't ban condoms, do they? I am Catholic but certainly I am  open to birth control. And I think a lot of Catholics are. They don' t want to say anything and make a big noise but any number of good Cathlic boys have condoms in their wallets. Allison

        --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Lin Kerns <linkerns@gmail. com <http://us.mc837 <http://us.mc837/> . mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=linkerns@ gmail.com <http://us.mc837. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=linkerns@ gmail.com <http://us.mc837. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=linkerns@ gmail.com> > > > wrote:

        From: Lin Kerns <linkerns@gmail. com <http://us.mc837 <http://us.mc837/> . mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=linkerns@ gmail.com <http://us.mc837. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=linkerns@ gmail.com <http://us.mc837. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=linkerns@ gmail.com> > > >
        Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] The reason that Haiti is poor ISN'T voodoo
        To: allthingshistory@ yahoogroups. com <http://us.mc837 <http://us.mc837/> . mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allthingshist ory@yahoogroups. com <http://us.mc837. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allthingshist ory@yahoogroups. com <http://us.mc837. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=allthingshist ory@yahoogroups. com> > >
        Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 4:27 PM

          I've thought a great deal about Haiti over the past few years and admittedly, I am
        totally ignorant of their history, other than the initial colonization by the French. I know that Catholics have a major stronghold in that country and yes, as I am one, I get to say the following:

        My local church sponsors a mission in Haiti and other than sending money and a few medical supplies, their big push is for people to donate Tums (aka calcium carbonate) for the Haitians' calcium deficiency. Why aren't they sending condoms along with those Tums, and money, and what not? How can they preach to a people that it's okay to have a child and watch it starve to death or become crippled due to some nutritional deficiency? This blind faith that everything will be okay so long as you trust in God is a fable. And sorry folks, I'm not getting into semantics so much as I am speaking of common sense. This is part and parcel of what I term, The Grand Ignorance, and propagating it is setting people up to fail.

        You all know that despite your
        faith, you will experience bad events in your life. I choose to think that I go through these times as a means to build my character, which is part of my faith. But for crying out loud, to seduce an ignorant people into overpopulation is a crime. I made the choice when I was in high school not to ever have children. Other people can do the same, including the Haitians, if they are given the opportunity of a proper education on which they can base a meaningful decision. Hello--having sex means having offspring. Easy.

        And for me, this is the great evil that is perpetuated in that country and why it will stay poor and underdeveloped.

        Lin

           



           











        --
        Check out http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/california disasters/
        Read our blog at http://eclecticarca nia.blogspot. com/
        Visit me on Facebook at http://www.facebook .com/derkimster
        Visit my Myspace at http://www.myspace. com/kimusinterup tus
        We have an Ebay store at http://stores. ebay.com/ K-K-Earthwerks
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.