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Re: [allthingshistory] Basic elements of a Western

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  • Elena Vaccaro
    My favorite western writer was Louis L Amour. As for some of the plotlines, many of the ones I remember do not have these. Mmm I might not have been watching
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 1, 2013
      My favorite western writer was Louis L'Amour. As for some of the plotlines, many of the ones I remember do not have these. Mmm I might not have been watching enough movies. I do remember Wagon Train, Shane [the tv series], Bonanza, The Rifleman.

      As for the later movies/tv shows, Star Trek was pitched to NBC by Gene Roddenberry as Wagon Train to the stars.

      Many of the plotlines listed below also fit any Space Opera.

      Elena
      >^..^<


      --- On Mon, 4/1/13, Robert Blau <robert-blau@...> wrote:

      From: Robert Blau <robert-blau@...>
      Subject: [allthingshistory] Basic elements of a Western
      To: "WG" <wackygenretv@yahoogroups.com>, "his" <allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com>, "bruce@..." <bruce@...>
      Date: Monday, April 1, 2013, 5:23 PM



      Interesting . . .
       

      Game idea for module:

      (edited 04/21/06, 01/08/08)


      (Thank you Steve, Mars, David and others for ideas and corrections)


      ELEMENTS OF A WESTERN:

      CHARACTERS:

      Sheriff/Marshal

      Cattle Police

      Russlers

      Priest/Preacher

      Cowboys

      Bandits

      Little Boy/Girl

      Soliders/Federals

      Mexican Army

      Federal Agent

      Indian Agent

      Scout - white or indian, or maybe even black.

      Indians (helpful of they are known aggressive types, but not always, depends on the plot)

      Bartender

      Bar Maid

      Whores/Entertainers/Madame

      Drunk(s)

      Preacher

      Lord/Don/Owner of the local ranch

      Undertaker

      Hangman

      School Teacher

      Snake Oil Salesman (or some other travelling sales person)

      Conmen (see snake oil, but not always the same)

      Carpet Bagger (more for southern style)

      Bankers (can be a character or just a plot device, or? )

      Prospectors/Miners

      Blacksmith

      Gambler

      Gunslinger

      Peasants/Peon

      Slaves - Former or even depending on time and place, current. Slaves are not always black, some asian and irish slaves/in dentured servants, as well as some Indians (From India) was used in late western times.

      Chinese/Blacks/Irish slaves or semi-slaves (Indebtured). Many southerners used black slaves from their plantations/stock to mine california gold from their lands there.

      Confederates (former/bandits or refugees?)

      Engineers (Train normally, but possible others, like the oil or water or projects type)

      Doctor/Dentist/Snake Oil Salesmen - Kwak or for real

      Adventurer/Big Game Hunter

      Judge

      Post Master

      Gunsmith

      Carpetbagger (southern style or ?)

      Foreign dignatary (not often)

      President or member of current or past administration)

      Member of Congress, but not often

      Secret Agent (See James West for some ideas, but not always)


      CHARACTERS - GENERIC

      Hero

      Villain

      Side Kick

      Victim(s)

      Snitch

      Love Interest (Even if not romantically involved)

      Horse

      Dog or other animal non-riding

      Madame

      Deputies/ Posse

      Vigilanties

      Bounty Hunters

      Buffalo hunters

      Barber/ bathhouse

      Telegraph operator

      piano player

      farmer

      cattle rancher

      sheep rancher

      calvarymen

      pony express

      wells fargo

      Spanish Mission monks and maybe nuns

      Suttler (general store)

      Sule Skinner

      Chinese railroad workers

      Early Union Organizer

      Cooper

      Wainwright (making wagons and like)

      Assayer

      (got to remember what some of the professions was doing)


      PLACES:

      Hotel/Bar

      Whore House

      Ranch - Sheep/Cattle

      Farm

      Bank

      Jail

      Train Stop/Station

      Store (General)

      Houses

      Court House

      Feed Store/Livery Stable/Blacksmith/Corral

      Hacienda/Ranch (And buildings for it)

      Church

      Gallows

      Undertakers Office

      Doctors Office

      Post Office

      Fort

      Apothecary

      Opium Den (sometimes the same as the Apothecary, some time separate) Often run by a Chinese doctor.

      Corral

      Brothel

      Assayers office

      Land claims office

      Wainwrights or Cooper place/shop (one does wagons the other does wheels or is it pots/pans and like?)

      GROUPS:

      Cattlemen

      Sheep Herders

      Farmer

      Former Slaves - Settlers

      Settlers

      Mormons

      Wives Club

      Grange/Farmers Groups

      Crime Group

      Hattfield/McCoy/etc: Any group that might have a natural grudge against the other, often due to a land or like issues that went to far. Racial/Religious/Romance and more (Romeo and Juliet).

      Deputies

      Soldiers

      Tribes

      Cattlemen

      Sheep Herders

      Farmers

      Miners

      Chinese: Chinese or other Asian group (most often seen in the western US). Chinese and like can add Eastern elements, such as the early Tong/Triads and more. But also how they was treated..

      Mexicans (Spanish and Non-Spanish).

      Revolutionaries (Ponco and Friends and more). Much of the troubles of the 1840s to 1920 was over Northern Mexican issues, and land acquisition from Mexico).

      Groups, ex-Confeds, like Klan or like type people, or you mean like the James/Younger/Dalton gangs, who had Mosby or Quamtrille backgrounds.. True, need not be ex-confedes, can be real ones, such as they mission in like 1863 to go to California. But they did not get there to cut off the gold mines..

      Mormons or other religious group, most often christian in nature. Like Black settlers, off to find a land where slavery is not around, or something like that.

      Monestary or like.


      PLOT IDEAS:

      Gun slinger

      Cattlemen vs Sheep Herders

      Sheep Herders vs Farmers

      Farmers vs Cattlemen

      Farmers vs Sheep Herders or Cattlemen

      Miners vs someone? Claim jumpers or ?

      Murder or self defense

      Locked up wrongy

      Defense, sheriff arrests someone and he can not do much until judge or marshal is in town or army is.

      Runaway slave

      Burning down the local Chinese doctors house (why many Chinese doctors houses/work place was strong and nearly bullet proof).

      Conflict: Well, hatfields and mccoy, can also means two groups that do not like each other, to include farmers vs cattle headers, or sheep herders vs cattle and so on.



      Looking for more ideas and such, some westerns are more 1900s, but could be westerns, sort of.


      OTHER ELEMENTS:


      Foreign elements such as:

      Mexico/Spanish

      - Poncho Vila

      - Emperor Maximillian

      - Texas/Chiuahua Rebellion

      French

      Canadian

      - What is now NW US was once US/British Territory (Oregon/Washington/Idaho and ..)

      As well as foreign trade. California was a nation for a short time.. Also Russia claimed what is now Alaska, British Columbia, Washington/Oregon/California coast to San Fransisco and Hawaii..


      CLASSIC PLOT LINES:

      Corrupt Judge or like? Such as federal agent, indian agent, sherif and more.

      Hum, maybe a list of known clash types as well as scenarios for classic weasterns?

      Cattle/Sheep Rusters

      Herders vs the Animals (not common, but more than people think)

      Sheriff vs someone, sometimes a good thing, sometimes not, like a corrupt sheriff in the pocket of the cattlemen, and the son of the local sheep herder who is in love with the cheif cattlemans daugjhter or something else, but he faces hanging cause of a murder or self defense or ..

      Like the classic Sheriff besieges in his jail until the Army gets there?

      Railroad vs ... Cattlemen or .. Sheep or Indians or ....


      Will review and make changes..


      How many movies that was not a western, but might as well been one?


      Star Wars for instance?


      Moves that come to mind for ideas?


      Mike



      From Steve



      DISPUTES:


      There was always disputes between farmers and ranchers. Often Ranchers would buy up huge tracts of land and then fence it off, usually tying up water supplies ans roads that farmers disparately needed. Sometimes it was vice-versa where farmers would fence off alot of small properties and not allow ranchers to let their cattle/sheep/whichever to graze.

      Grange/Farmers Groups


      Commonly, farmers were in struggle with buyers. These companies, back when there were no regulations, would try to low ball them every time and would go so far as to use hired guns or sabotage to get their way. Farmers would try to fight back with their Co-op groups (kinda like a farmer's union) but these were often busted up with hired guns. Alternately, buyer companies would try to pose as legit commodities brokers and start co-ops with farmers - and then screw them afterwards (very low).

      Crime Group


      usually ex-confederates who didn't get over losing the war, or just didn't adjust to life after the civil war.

      Hattfield/McCoy/etc


      I persoanlly wouldn't focus on something like that. Thats more of a southern thing - although if you want to combine it with one of the above themes, it might make interesting twist.

      Soldiers/Tribes

      Enraged natives who are hellbent on protecting their way of life because the white man keeps renegging on their treaties - and the soldiers who are caught up in the mess. Many times, ranchers and prospectors would encroach on native lands despite ironclad treaties, these groups would form lobby-groups in washington who in turn would make laws which allowed these groups to ignore the treaties. Also, the effort to put telegraph lines and railways tracks across the country. Almost always they didn't ask first. How would you like it if it built a swimming pool half on your backyard - and then built a fence around it so you couldn't use it?

      These are merely some ideas off the top of my head. I watched many a western as a young lad...so often these plot ideas can be political back drops to a senario. Of course you could still mix in the typically bank robbers, glory seekers, street duels (gunfights), barroom brawls, etc etc. Until civilization moved in in the 1880's-90s, the west was fairly lawless - except in big cities or large towns (Dodge City for instance). But out in the boonies, it was pretty pure anarchy.

      Steve



      From David I Think:


      The 7 Standard Western Plots


      1 Shane - retired gunslinger defends the little guy


      2 The Magnificent 7 - Team is hired to defend entire town.


      3. Silverado - team must get rid of evil sherrif and his cronies.


      4. Save the widder's farm from Simon LaGrie who is forclosing on the

      mortgage


      5. Zorro (late period swashbuckling adventures)


      6 Defense of the Settler from Indians or Bandits, or on the trail from starvation or like


      7 Train robbers or like



      Check out the cowboy channel on cable or satellite. Just look at the

      schedule menu, the plots are summarised.

      Claim jumpers on gold prospectors, Jail breaks or preventing jail

      breaks, Bankrobbers,


      From David (world create?)


      Leader / Planner / Lawmaker


      Diplomat / Translator


      Counsellor / Peacemaker / Priest / Philosopher


      Archeologist / Scientist / Scholar / Designer


      Berserker / Loner / Wild Card


      Sidekick / Comic Relief


      Con Man / Charismatic

      ---------

      LAW ENFORCMENT:

      Sheriff/Marshal

      Cattle Police

      Deputy


      LEGAL:


      BUSINESS:


      ENEMIES: (depends on point of view):

      ----------------

      Additions:


      Abused wife on the run

      Cowardly Sheriff

      Escaped Slave

      Freed Slaves (group or)

      Mexican

      Laborors

      Peons

      Soldiers

      Westerns can include South America?


      Wandering Monk(s)

      Pilgrims


      How far back is a Western?

      Spanish conquest?

      Pre-Spanish (some basic background from pre-columbian.


      CHARACTERS:

      Post Master/Clerk

      Stagecoach Driver/Guard/Clerk

      Sheriff/Prison Guard/Deputy/Marshal

      Bounty Hunter

      Madame/Whore/Bartender/Kid

      Bank Manager/Clerk/Guard

      General Store Owner/Manager/Clerk/Worker

      Miner/Prespector/Assayer

      Cattlemen Police/Sheriff

      Newspaper Owner/Press person

      Mortician/Grave Digger

      Executioner/Hangman

      Priest/Pastor

      Mine Owner/Manager

      Doctor/Nurse (more like helper or wife?)

      Doctor might also do Vet work?

      Blacksmith/Copper Smith, Gunsmith.


      Bandits

      Mexican

      Former Union/Confed/French/Mexican Army.

      Guards/Soldiers


       


    • Allison Maricelli-Loukanis
      Hi Elena,  The western is one of my favorite movie genres. I loved the old John Wayne/John Ford movies. They always incorporated humor which just made the
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 2, 2013
        Hi Elena,
         The western is one of my favorite movie genres. I loved the old John Wayne/John Ford movies. They always incorporated humor which just made the movies for me. It seems lately that the westerns made today are unnecessarily grim and brutal. Maybe life was that way but this is Hollywood. We don't have to stick to reality. I especially liked Western comedies like Cat Ballou with Jane Fonda.. or McLintock, another John Wayne vehicle. The closest thing to this made recently or relatively recent would be the Will Smith movie.. Wild Wild West.. that one was fun. Allison 
      • Lin Kerns
        I detest westerns as a genre and I will avoid them like the plague. As a child, tv held nothing BUT westerns and I was relegated to 3 tv shows I followed
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 2, 2013
          I detest westerns as a genre and I will avoid them like the plague. As a child, tv held nothing BUT westerns and I was relegated to 3 tv shows I followed religiously: Superman, XL-5, and Alvin and the Chipmunks. I must say, though, that by avoiding all that tv, my imagination blossomed so I did benefit.

          I admit though that one of my favorite movies is "Dances with Wolves." I also fancy "True Grit," as the original still holds fond memories for me. The recent "Cowboys and Aliens" movie is also good, but that hardly qualifies as a genuine western. I just can't take reruns of "Bonanza," "The Rifleman," "Rawhide," and "Gunsmoke." I run screaming from the room. lol

          Lin


          On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <allison.ann@...> wrote:
           

          Hi Elena,
           The western is one of my favorite movie genres. I loved the old John Wayne/John Ford movies. They always incorporated humor which just made the movies for me. It seems lately that the westerns made today are unnecessarily grim and brutal. Maybe life was that way but this is Hollywood. We don't have to stick to reality. I especially liked Western comedies like Cat Ballou with Jane Fonda.. or McLintock, another John Wayne vehicle. The closest thing to this made recently or relatively recent would be the Will Smith movie.. Wild Wild West.. that one was fun. Allison 




          --
        • Elena Vaccaro
          There were several of the Wayne/Ford movies that were dark, but I still liked them for what they said about how people interact with each other. The darkest
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 3, 2013
            There were several of the Wayne/Ford movies that were dark, but I still liked them for what they said about how people interact with each other. The darkest one was 'The Searchers'. Wayne's character was bigoted and unforgiving. This story was based partially on real events that took place in the pan-handle of Texas, but the uncle did not find the niece in the end.

            http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049730/

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Searchers_%28film%29

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Le_May

            This is Cynthia Ann Parker's page

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynthia_Ann_Parker

            There was another famous captive who lived and died not far from Fort Wayne, Francis Slocum. She was captured by the Delaware, raised by them

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Slocum

            She was in Northern Indiana when Anthony Wayne built Fort Wayne, Defiance and fought the Battle of Fallen Timbers. Possibly had sons that fought with the Miami/Shawnee contingent.

            Elena
            >^..^<


            --- On Tue, 4/2/13, Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <allison.ann@...> wrote:

            From: Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <allison.ann@...>
            Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] Basic elements of a Western
            To: "allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com" <allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Tuesday, April 2, 2013, 7:31 AM



            Hi Elena,
             The western is one of my favorite movie genres. I loved the old John Wayne/John Ford movies. They always incorporated humor which just made the movies for me. It seems lately that the westerns made today are unnecessarily grim and brutal. Maybe life was that way but this is Hollywood. We don't have to stick to reality. I especially liked Western comedies like Cat Ballou with Jane Fonda.. or McLintock, another John Wayne vehicle. The closest thing to this made recently or relatively recent would be the Will Smith movie.. Wild Wild West.. that one was fun. Allison 


          • Andrew Jackson
            Hello Group, Q- what s the difference between the good guys and the bad guys in the old westerns? A- the good guys talked nice, drank milk in the saloon, were
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 3, 2013
              Hello Group,

              Q- what's the difference between the good guys and the bad guys in the old westerns?
              A- the good guys talked nice, drank milk in the saloon, were polite to women, and went to church.  The bad guys boozed it up, swore, gambled, and chased women.

              Q- what's the difference between the good guys and the bad guys in modern westerns?
              A- the good guys wear stars.

              At least one commentator noted that the first modern western was The Wild Bunch (1969) with Bill Holden, Robert Ryan, and Ernest Borgnine. 

              Andrew
            • Allison Maricelli-Loukanis
              The Cynthia Ann Parker story is sad...I didn t know that some of the Texas Rangers had urged letting her return to her family...they should have let her do
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 4, 2013
                The Cynthia Ann Parker story is sad...I didn't know that some of the Texas Rangers had urged letting her return to her family...they should have let her do that. I think going back to the white world made her unhappy and shortened her life. Allison


                From: Elena Vaccaro <earthandice@...>
                To: allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2013 4:45 PM
                Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] Basic elements of a Western

                 
                There were several of the Wayne/Ford movies that were dark, but I still liked them for what they said about how people interact with each other. The darkest one was 'The Searchers'. Wayne's character was bigoted and unforgiving. This story was based partially on real events that took place in the pan-handle of Texas, but the uncle did not find the niece in the end.

                http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049730/

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Searchers_%28film%29

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Le_May

                This is Cynthia Ann Parker's page

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynthia_Ann_Parker

                There was another famous captive who lived and died not far from Fort Wayne, Francis Slocum. She was captured by the Delaware, raised by them

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Slocum

                She was in Northern Indiana when Anthony Wayne built Fort Wayne, Defiance and fought the Battle of Fallen Timbers. Possibly had sons that fought with the Miami/Shawnee contingent.

                Elena
                >^..^<


                --- On Tue, 4/2/13, Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <allison.ann@...> wrote:

                From: Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <allison.ann@...>
                Subject: Re: [allthingshistory] Basic elements of a Western
                To: "allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com" <allthingshistory@yahoogroups.com>
                Date: Tuesday, April 2, 2013, 7:31 AM



                Hi Elena,
                 The western is one of my favorite movie genres. I loved the old John Wayne/John Ford movies. They always incorporated humor which just made the movies for me. It seems lately that the westerns made today are unnecessarily grim and brutal. Maybe life was that way but this is Hollywood. We don't have to stick to reality. I especially liked Western comedies like Cat Ballou with Jane Fonda.. or McLintock, another John Wayne vehicle. The closest thing to this made recently or relatively recent would be the Will Smith movie.. Wild Wild West.. that one was fun. Allison 




              • Robert Blau
                Maybe you d like BraveStarr on Qubo Night Owl. :) Posted by: Lin Kerns linkerns@gmail.com lin.kerns Date: Thu Apr 4, 2013 12:10 pm ((PDT)) I
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 4, 2013
                  Maybe you'd like "BraveStarr" on Qubo Night Owl.           :)
                   
                  Posted by: "Lin Kerns" linkerns@... lin.kerns
                  Date: Thu Apr 4, 2013 12:10 pm ((PDT))

                  I detest westerns as a genre and I will avoid them like the plague. As a
                  child, tv held nothing BUT westerns and I was relegated to 3 tv shows I
                  followed religiously: Superman, XL-5, and Alvin and the Chipmunks. I must
                  say, though, that by avoiding all that tv, my imagination blossomed so I
                  did benefit.

                  I admit though that one of my favorite movies is "Dances with Wolves." I
                  also fancy "True Grit," as the original still holds fond memories for me.
                  The recent "Cowboys and Aliens" movie is also good, but that hardly
                  qualifies as a genuine western. I just can't take reruns of "Bonanza," "The
                  Rifleman," "Rawhide," and "Gunsmoke." I run screaming from the room. lol

                  Lin


                  On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <
                  allison.ann@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Elena,
                  > The western is one of my favorite movie genres. I loved the old John
                  > Wayne/John Ford movies. They always incorporated humor which just made the
                  > movies for me. It seems lately that the westerns made today are
                  > unnecessarily grim and brutal. Maybe life was that way but this is
                  > Hollywood. We don't have to stick to reality. I especially liked Western
                  > comedies like Cat Ballou with Jane Fonda.. or McLintock, another John Wayne
                  > vehicle. The closest thing to this made recently or relatively recent would
                  > be the Will Smith movie.. Wild Wild West.. that one was fun. Allison
                  >
                  >
                  >
                   
                  Re: Basic elements of a Western
                  Posted by: "Lin Kerns" linkerns@... lin.kerns
                  Date: Thu Apr 4, 2013 12:10 pm ((PDT))

                  I detest westerns as a genre and I will avoid them like the plague. As a
                  child, tv held nothing BUT westerns and I was relegated to 3 tv shows I
                  followed religiously: Superman, XL-5, and Alvin and the Chipmunks. I must
                  say, though, that by avoiding all that tv, my imagination blossomed so I
                  did benefit.

                  I admit though that one of my favorite movies is "Dances with Wolves." I
                  also fancy "True Grit," as the original still holds fond memories for me.
                  The recent "Cowboys and Aliens" movie is also good, but that hardly
                  qualifies as a genuine western. I just can't take reruns of "Bonanza," "The
                  Rifleman," "Rawhide," and "Gunsmoke." I run screaming from the room. lol

                  Lin


                  On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <
                  allison.ann@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Elena,
                  > The western is one of my favorite movie genres. I loved the old John
                  > Wayne/John Ford movies. They always incorporated humor which just made the
                  > movies for me. It seems lately that the westerns made today are
                  > unnecessarily grim and brutal. Maybe life was that way but this is
                  > Hollywood. We don't have to stick to reality. I especially liked Western
                  > comedies like Cat Ballou with Jane Fonda.. or McLintock, another John Wayne
                  > vehicle. The closest thing to this made recently or relatively recent would
                  > be the Will Smith movie.. Wild Wild West.. that one was fun. Allison
                  >
                  >
                  >
                   

                • Kim Noyes
                  Lin, What did you think of the Coen Brother s True Grit ? ... -- Check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/californiadisasters/ Read my blog at
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 4, 2013
                    Lin,

                    What did you think of the Coen Brother's "True Grit"?


                    On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Robert Blau <robert-blau@...> wrote:
                     

                    Maybe you'd like "BraveStarr" on Qubo Night Owl.           :)
                     
                    Posted by: "Lin Kerns" linkerns@... lin.kerns
                    Date: Thu Apr 4, 2013 12:10 pm ((PDT))

                    I detest westerns as a genre and I will avoid them like the plague. As a
                    child, tv held nothing BUT westerns and I was relegated to 3 tv shows I
                    followed religiously: Superman, XL-5, and Alvin and the Chipmunks. I must
                    say, though, that by avoiding all that tv, my imagination blossomed so I
                    did benefit.

                    I admit though that one of my favorite movies is "Dances with Wolves." I
                    also fancy "True Grit," as the original still holds fond memories for me.
                    The recent "Cowboys and Aliens" movie is also good, but that hardly
                    qualifies as a genuine western. I just can't take reruns of "Bonanza," "The
                    Rifleman," "Rawhide," and "Gunsmoke." I run screaming from the room. lol

                    Lin


                    On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <
                    allison.ann@...> wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi Elena,
                    > The western is one of my favorite movie genres. I loved the old John
                    > Wayne/John Ford movies. They always incorporated humor which just made the
                    > movies for me. It seems lately that the westerns made today are
                    > unnecessarily grim and brutal. Maybe life was that way but this is
                    > Hollywood. We don't have to stick to reality. I especially liked Western
                    > comedies like Cat Ballou with Jane Fonda.. or McLintock, another John Wayne
                    > vehicle. The closest thing to this made recently or relatively recent would
                    > be the Will Smith movie.. Wild Wild West.. that one was fun. Allison
                    >
                    >
                    >
                     
                    Re: Basic elements of a Western
                    Posted by: "Lin Kerns" linkerns@... lin.kerns
                    Date: Thu Apr 4, 2013 12:10 pm ((PDT))

                    I detest westerns as a genre and I will avoid them like the plague. As a
                    child, tv held nothing BUT westerns and I was relegated to 3 tv shows I
                    followed religiously: Superman, XL-5, and Alvin and the Chipmunks. I must
                    say, though, that by avoiding all that tv, my imagination blossomed so I
                    did benefit.

                    I admit though that one of my favorite movies is "Dances with Wolves." I
                    also fancy "True Grit," as the original still holds fond memories for me.
                    The recent "Cowboys and Aliens" movie is also good, but that hardly
                    qualifies as a genuine western. I just can't take reruns of "Bonanza," "The
                    Rifleman," "Rawhide," and "Gunsmoke." I run screaming from the room. lol

                    Lin


                    On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <
                    allison.ann@...> wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi Elena,
                    > The western is one of my favorite movie genres. I loved the old John
                    > Wayne/John Ford movies. They always incorporated humor which just made the
                    > movies for me. It seems lately that the westerns made today are
                    > unnecessarily grim and brutal. Maybe life was that way but this is
                    > Hollywood. We don't have to stick to reality. I especially liked Western
                    > comedies like Cat Ballou with Jane Fonda.. or McLintock, another John Wayne
                    > vehicle. The closest thing to this made recently or relatively recent would
                    > be the Will Smith movie.. Wild Wild West.. that one was fun. Allison
                    >
                    >
                    >
                     




                    --
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                  • Allison Maricelli-Loukanis
                    That is true... there were an awful lot of westerns on TV in the fifties/sixties. I am not so much into those...I like the movies.   There was a scene I have
                    Message 9 of 14 , Apr 4, 2013
                      That is true... there were an awful lot of westerns on TV in the fifties/sixties. I am not so much into those...I like the movies. 
                       There was a scene I have never forgotten ..it was a Western. The cowboy was riding a horse and making this girl walk beside him with a rope around her neck and she was yelling at him and calling him names. This would have been mid to late sixties and it wasn't one of the tv series because I knew all those actors and this was a movie I am pretty sure. This is a longshot I do admit. /doubtful that anyone will know but I thought I would ask. Allison

                    • Lin Kerns
                      Kim, Although the story was more faithful to the book than the original movie, there s nothing that will ever replace the first in my heart and mind. The Duke,
                      Message 10 of 14 , Apr 4, 2013
                        Kim,

                        Although the story was more faithful to the book than the original movie, there's nothing that will ever replace the first in my heart and mind. The Duke, Kim Darby, and Glen Campbell made quite the best trio, regardless if the scenery looked more like Colorado than Arkansas and Texas ever did.

                        One other aside is that in the original, a bona fide rattlesnake was used in the cut-a-ways, while in the new version, a mucky cgi version would confuse even the most literate of herpetologists.

                        Lin


                        On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 4:16 PM, Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...> wrote:
                         

                        Lin,

                        What did you think of the Coen Brother's "True Grit"?


                        On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Robert Blau <robert-blau@...> wrote:
                         

                        Maybe you'd like "BraveStarr" on Qubo Night Owl.           :)
                         
                        Posted by: "Lin Kerns" linkerns@... lin.kerns
                        Date: Thu Apr 4, 2013 12:10 pm ((PDT))

                        I detest westerns as a genre and I will avoid them like the plague. As a
                        child, tv held nothing BUT westerns and I was relegated to 3 tv shows I
                        followed religiously: Superman, XL-5, and Alvin and the Chipmunks. I must
                        say, though, that by avoiding all that tv, my imagination blossomed so I
                        did benefit.

                        I admit though that one of my favorite movies is "Dances with Wolves." I
                        also fancy "True Grit," as the original still holds fond memories for me.
                        The recent "Cowboys and Aliens" movie is also good, but that hardly
                        qualifies as a genuine western. I just can't take reruns of "Bonanza," "The
                        Rifleman," "Rawhide," and "Gunsmoke." I run screaming from the room. lol

                        Lin


                        On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <
                        allison.ann@...> wrote:

                        > **
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi Elena,
                        > The western is one of my favorite movie genres. I loved the old John
                        > Wayne/John Ford movies. They always incorporated humor which just made the
                        > movies for me. It seems lately that the westerns made today are
                        > unnecessarily grim and brutal. Maybe life was that way but this is
                        > Hollywood. We don't have to stick to reality. I especially liked Western
                        > comedies like Cat Ballou with Jane Fonda.. or McLintock, another John Wayne
                        > vehicle. The closest thing to this made recently or relatively recent would
                        > be the Will Smith movie.. Wild Wild West.. that one was fun. Allison
                        >
                        >
                        >
                         
                        Re: Basic elements of a Western
                        Posted by: "Lin Kerns" linkerns@... lin.kerns
                        Date: Thu Apr 4, 2013 12:10 pm ((PDT))

                        I detest westerns as a genre and I will avoid them like the plague. As a
                        child, tv held nothing BUT westerns and I was relegated to 3 tv shows I
                        followed religiously: Superman, XL-5, and Alvin and the Chipmunks. I must
                        say, though, that by avoiding all that tv, my imagination blossomed so I
                        did benefit.

                        I admit though that one of my favorite movies is "Dances with Wolves." I
                        also fancy "True Grit," as the original still holds fond memories for me.
                        The recent "Cowboys and Aliens" movie is also good, but that hardly
                        qualifies as a genuine western. I just can't take reruns of "Bonanza," "The
                        Rifleman," "Rawhide," and "Gunsmoke." I run screaming from the room. lol

                        Lin


                        On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <
                        allison.ann@...> wrote:

                        > **
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi Elena,
                        > The western is one of my favorite movie genres. I loved the old John
                        > Wayne/John Ford movies. They always incorporated humor which just made the
                        > movies for me. It seems lately that the westerns made today are
                        > unnecessarily grim and brutal. Maybe life was that way but this is
                        > Hollywood. We don't have to stick to reality. I especially liked Western
                        > comedies like Cat Ballou with Jane Fonda.. or McLintock, another John Wayne
                        > vehicle. The closest thing to this made recently or relatively recent would
                        > be the Will Smith movie.. Wild Wild West.. that one was fun. Allison
                        >
                        >
                        >
                         




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                      • Robert Blau
                        What did you think of the Coen Brothers [correctively placed apostrophe ... Posted by: Kim Noyes kimnoyes@gmail.com kimusinteruptus Date: Thu Apr 4, 2013
                        Message 11 of 14 , Apr 6, 2013
                          What did you think of the Coen Brothers' [correctively placed apostrophe

                          :)  ] "No Country for Old Men?

                                  Posted by: "Kim Noyes" kimnoyes@...
                          kimusinteruptus   Date: Thu Apr 4, 2013 2:16 pm ((PDT))

                          Lin,
                          What did you think of the Coen Brother's "True Grit"?

                          On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Robert Blau <robert-blau@...>
                          wrote:
                          ** 
                          Maybe you'd like "BraveStarr" on Qubo Night Owl.           :)

                          Posted by: "Lin Kerns" linkerns@... lin.kerns Date: Thu Apr 4,
                          2013 12:10 pm ((PDT))

                          I detest westerns as a genre and I will avoid them like the plague. As a

                          child, tv held nothing BUT westerns and I was relegated to 3 tv shows I
                          followed religiously: Superman, XL-5, and Alvin and the Chipmunks. I
                          must say, though, that by avoiding all that tv, my imagination blossomed

                          so I did benefit.
                          I admit though that one of my favorite movies is "Dances with Wolves." I

                          also fancy "True Grit," as the original still holds fond memories for
                          me. The recent "Cowboys and Aliens" movie is also good, but that hardly
                          qualifies as a genuine western. I just can't take reruns of "Bonanza,"
                          "The Rifleman," "Rawhide," and "Gunsmoke." I run screaming from the
                          room. lol
                          Lin
                          On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <
                          allison.ann@...> wrote:
                          ** 
                          Hi Elena,
                          The western is one of my favorite movie genres. I loved the old John
                          Wayne/John Ford movies. They always incorporated humor which just made
                          the movies for me. It seems lately that the westerns made today are
                          unnecessarily grim and brutal. Maybe life was that way but this is
                          Hollywood. We don't have to stick to reality. I especially liked Western

                          comedies like Cat Ballou with Jane Fonda.. or McLintock, another John
                          Wayne vehicle. The closest thing to this made recently or relatively
                          recent would be the Will Smith movie.. Wild Wild West.. that one was
                          fun. Allison
                          Re: Basic elements of a Western
                          Posted by: "Lin Kerns" linkerns@... lin.kerns Date: Thu Apr 4,
                          2013 12:10 pm ((PDT))
                          I detest westerns as a genre and I will avoid them like the plague. As a

                          child, tv held nothing BUT westerns and I was relegated to 3 tv shows I
                          followed religiously: Superman, XL-5, and Alvin and the Chipmunks. I
                          must say, though, that by avoiding all that tv, my imagination blossomed

                          so I did benefit.
                          I admit though that one of my favorite movies is "Dances with Wolves." I

                          also fancy "True Grit," as the original still holds fond memories for
                          me. The recent "Cowboys and Aliens" movie is also good, but that hardly
                          qualifies as a genuine western. I just can't take reruns of "Bonanza,"
                          "The Rifleman," "Rawhide," and "Gunsmoke." I run screaming from the
                          room. lol
                          Lin

                          On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <
                          allison.ann@...> wrote:
                          ** 
                          Hi Elena,
                          The western is one of my favorite movie genres. I loved the old John
                          Wayne/John Ford movies. They always incorporated humor which just made
                          the movies for me. It seems lately that the westerns made today are
                          unnecessarily grim and brutal. Maybe life was that way but this is
                          Hollywood. We don't have to stick to reality. I especially liked Western

                          comedies like Cat Ballou with Jane Fonda.. or McLintock, another John
                          Wayne vehicle. The closest thing to this made recently or relatively
                          recent would be the Will Smith movie.. Wild Wild West.. that one was
                          fun. Allison



                        • Andrew Jackson
                          John Wayne westerns were OK when I was a kid. True Grit was OK. I really did like The Wild Bunch and Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid. Andrew
                          Message 12 of 14 , Apr 6, 2013
                            John Wayne westerns were OK when I was a kid. True Grit was OK.  I really did like The Wild Bunch and Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid.

                            Andrew
                          • Kim Noyes
                            Misplaced apostrophes aside, I LOVED that movie despite it s darkness and bleakness and moody atmosphere. ... -- Check out
                            Message 13 of 14 , Apr 6, 2013
                              Misplaced apostrophes'  aside, I LOVED that movie despite it's darkness and bleakness and moody atmosphere.


                              On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:16 PM, Robert Blau <robert-blau@...> wrote:
                               

                              What did you think of the Coen Brothers' [correctively placed apostrophe

                              :)  ] "No Country for Old Men?

                                      Posted by: "Kim Noyes" kimnoyes@...
                              kimusinteruptus   Date: Thu Apr 4, 2013 2:16 pm ((PDT))

                              Lin,
                              What did you think of the Coen Brother's "True Grit"?

                              On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Robert Blau <robert-blau@...>
                              wrote:
                              ** 
                              Maybe you'd like "BraveStarr" on Qubo Night Owl.           :)

                              Posted by: "Lin Kerns" linkerns@... lin.kerns Date: Thu Apr 4,
                              2013 12:10 pm ((PDT))

                              I detest westerns as a genre and I will avoid them like the plague. As a

                              child, tv held nothing BUT westerns and I was relegated to 3 tv shows I
                              followed religiously: Superman, XL-5, and Alvin and the Chipmunks. I
                              must say, though, that by avoiding all that tv, my imagination blossomed

                              so I did benefit.
                              I admit though that one of my favorite movies is "Dances with Wolves." I

                              also fancy "True Grit," as the original still holds fond memories for
                              me. The recent "Cowboys and Aliens" movie is also good, but that hardly
                              qualifies as a genuine western. I just can't take reruns of "Bonanza,"
                              "The Rifleman," "Rawhide," and "Gunsmoke." I run screaming from the
                              room. lol
                              Lin
                              On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <
                              allison.ann@...> wrote:
                              ** 
                              Hi Elena,
                              The western is one of my favorite movie genres. I loved the old John
                              Wayne/John Ford movies. They always incorporated humor which just made
                              the movies for me. It seems lately that the westerns made today are
                              unnecessarily grim and brutal. Maybe life was that way but this is
                              Hollywood. We don't have to stick to reality. I especially liked Western

                              comedies like Cat Ballou with Jane Fonda.. or McLintock, another John
                              Wayne vehicle. The closest thing to this made recently or relatively
                              recent would be the Will Smith movie.. Wild Wild West.. that one was
                              fun. Allison
                              Re: Basic elements of a Western
                              Posted by: "Lin Kerns" linkerns@... lin.kerns Date: Thu Apr 4,
                              2013 12:10 pm ((PDT))
                              I detest westerns as a genre and I will avoid them like the plague. As a

                              child, tv held nothing BUT westerns and I was relegated to 3 tv shows I
                              followed religiously: Superman, XL-5, and Alvin and the Chipmunks. I
                              must say, though, that by avoiding all that tv, my imagination blossomed

                              so I did benefit.
                              I admit though that one of my favorite movies is "Dances with Wolves." I

                              also fancy "True Grit," as the original still holds fond memories for
                              me. The recent "Cowboys and Aliens" movie is also good, but that hardly
                              qualifies as a genuine western. I just can't take reruns of "Bonanza,"
                              "The Rifleman," "Rawhide," and "Gunsmoke." I run screaming from the
                              room. lol
                              Lin

                              On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <
                              allison.ann@...> wrote:
                              ** 
                              Hi Elena,
                              The western is one of my favorite movie genres. I loved the old John
                              Wayne/John Ford movies. They always incorporated humor which just made
                              the movies for me. It seems lately that the westerns made today are
                              unnecessarily grim and brutal. Maybe life was that way but this is
                              Hollywood. We don't have to stick to reality. I especially liked Western

                              comedies like Cat Ballou with Jane Fonda.. or McLintock, another John
                              Wayne vehicle. The closest thing to this made recently or relatively
                              recent would be the Will Smith movie.. Wild Wild West.. that one was
                              fun. Allison






                              --
                              Check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/californiadisasters/
                              Read my blog at http://eclecticarcania.blogspot.com/
                              My Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/derkimster
                              Linkedin profile: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/kim-noyes/9/3a1/2b8
                              Follow me on Twitter @DisasterKim
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