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Re: [aleyos-online] Re: Sango

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  • Denise Mauri
    Thanks for the information. I have had my worriors for about 2 years, la entrada was done 3 months after I received them. I know how to care for them but I
    Message 1 of 35 , Mar 1, 2005
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      Thanks for the information.  I have had my worriors for about 2 years, la entrada was done 3 months after I received them.  I know how to care for them but I was not taught to throw the coco.  Why? I don't know, everytime I want to learn something I am told that I can't because I am in the process of doing Santo.  I have noticed I am told "you can't do that yet" a lot.  I am impulsive and I love to read, learn and do.  I get a speech all the time on how the orishas will take the talent from me if I do things before my time, for example, I set up and decorated the Altar for my mom's Santo OBATALA - I love him, I felt compeld to decorate and set up the thrown - He know I did it out of love for him and the rest of the orishas, it was a beautiful thrown.  I dressed all the Orishas with their Shawls and Crowns, they were ALL beautifully presented they looked like the Kings and Queens that they are.  My Godparents came by for the celebration, once they saw it they asked who set up and decorated the Alter, they were very impressed and needed to know who she hired to do the job. Once my mom said I did it - I was pulled aside and instructed me to never do that again.  When I asked why, they told me the Orishas will take away my talent.  I explained I did it out of love for the Orishas.  The whole time I was setting up each orisha, I prayed to them, asking them permission to dress them up and asked for forgiveness if I was not supposed to be doing this, but it was all from my heart and love for them.  My Godparent's spoke to me some more and I said fine, what ever.  The Orisha's know I did it out of love, it was the least I could do for them. 

      kingshytestarter <kingshytestarter@...> wrote:

      Well you need to ask your God Parents how to through Obi to Your
      Elegua. i'm very surprize you do not know how to toss the coconuts
      as yet. because speaking to your Elegua brings you too closer
      togather and besides that you need to know how to work your Elegua
      and your warriors. I do not know if you just recieved your warriors
      because my God Father wouldn't let me work mine until 3 months had
      pass of my recieving mine. oh yea they also need to be fed at your
      front door after 3 months. but anyway i know that i am going to be
      drag through the coals again for opening my big mouth in here but
      here it goes anyway. This is How i toss Obi and this will very a lot
      from house to house on the preyer part of it, but this is how i do
      it so i hope your ready for Kings Crash Course on how to Through Obi
      LOL.

      1st thing you need is a nice size coconut and a hammer.

      2st thing you need to do is hold the coconut and ask Obi
      permisission to open his coconut for divination.

      3. you crack the coconut in Left hand and hammer in your right and
      DO NOT crack the coconut on the floor with the hammer, to it in your
      hands. might be a wise idea here to save the juice for later to
      clean your own head.  

      once you have it open in half, break it the two pieaces you have in
      half again. should give you a total of 4 big pieces. take a blade of
      a knigh and stick it in between the coconut and the meat and give it
      a light twist back and forth to pry the meat away from the coconut
      IN ONE PIEACE. this takes skill and practice as anyone here will
      sure to tell you. anyway once you have all the meat out of the
      shells. take your blade and carve you 5 nice rounded pieaces make
      sure there are know cracks running in the round pieaces. then drop
      them in a bowl of water and place then in the ice box until you
      ready to begin.

      now pull out your straw mat and place elegua at the top of it.
      before your Elegua place the coco's Generally  the smallest of the
      coco's near elegua as a witness to the ceremony. and then place the
      other for under that one. tear 3 little tiny pieace from each one
      and sprinkly over Elegua. now from a seperate Gourd or cup of cool
      water sprinkle the coconuts that should all be facing white side up
      on the mat while you do this chant:

      ago obi {3 times}

      obi ni ibi iku

      obi ni ibi arun

      obi ni ibi ofo

      obi ni ibi fitibo bi ni ibi indina

      sprinkle tree drops of water before Elegua

      Holding your 4 obi shells white side up in your left hand kneeling
      on the floor befor your elegua chant:

      He mo ki e o (3 times}

      switching the ibi shells from the left to the the right hand  you
      then chant:

      He mo ki e o iki eye {3 times}

      switching back to your left hand you knock on the mat with your
      right hand and chant:

      Obi (the name of your Elegua}, iLe mo ki e o iki eye (3 times)

      Now stand up and from your waist height you move your cupped hands
      with the coconuts him them in a clockwise cirular motion and ask
      Elegua if he will speak then drop the coconuts on the mat. Alafia
      (all white) means yes with blessing, but you must toss them again to
      make sure, if you get Ejiefe with two black and two white this is
      Yes! you might get 3 white and one black {aiafia} this is also
      yes,if you get 3 dark and one white {okana}it means NO. if this
      happens to fall, start over but call to elegua and say a preyer to
      him before starting the ritual. if he answers Okana again, try the
      next day. don't bother him again. now of you get 4 darks, don't
      panic or freak out, just means the dead stand to speak, ask elegua
      if this is what it is if this falls, if so stop and talk to the dead
      immediately. then talk to elegua afterthey have said what they have
      to say. if Oyeku doesn't mean the dead, then find out what it is
      about. keep your questions simple yes and no questions and be
      Pacific in what you ask.

      four example i ask Elegua if i would win the lotto one day, to my
      surpize he said yes! the next day i played the lotto like i was
      beating on a hourse race. in deed i won! but it was only 3 dollars
      LOL, Got to love Elegua and his tricks.

      1. 4 whites is YES on your first toss, but it needs tO be follow up
      by a secant toss to make sure.

      2. WHITES AND ONE BLACK means yes but also needs to be followed up
      by another toss.

      3. 2 WHITE AND TWO BLACK is there most solid yes!

      4. 3 BLACK AND 1 WHITE means NO!

      5. ALL BLACK ask if the dead wish to speak! if not there is a
      problem. find out what it is or have a more experince santero
      babalaow find out what is going on right away!

      This is only my way of doing things i am sure there are others that
      will have a lot to say about it. but it works for me and my Elegua's
      so good luck :)

      --- In aleyos-online@yahoogroups.com, Denise Mauri <dmauri66@y...>
      wrote:
      > Bendicion

      > How exactly would you ask Elegua and how would you know the answer?
      >
      > kingshytestarter <kingshytestarter@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Left somethng out...after 3 days go back to Elegua and ask him
      wear to
      > dispose of the offering.
      >
      > 1. the woods against a pine tree?
      > 2. Garbage heep?
      > 3. bushes? ect. ect.
      >
      > --- In aleyos-online@yahoogroups.com, "kingshytestarter"
      > <kingshytestarter@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Ok well this is what i would do and this is only my option.
      > > I am Assuming you have Warriors? if so put the package togather
      as i
      > > said before inside the brown papper bag with red ribbon. and go
      to
      > > your Elegua and explain to him to Give The ACHE to Chango!
      Through Obi
      > > to him and make sure he understands and agrees. kick him 3
      candies and
      > > be done with it. or you can fine the biggest Pine tree around and
      > > leave it there, Chango will know it for him with all that okra
      > > smelling up the woods LOL
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In aleyos-online@yahoogroups.com, "goldenfireempress1"
      > > <goldenfireempress1@y...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi King....
      > > >
      > > > Thanks for the tip.  Ironically saffronwolf asked my next
      > > > question.  :)  Unfortunately, I don't live anywhere near a
      beach. Is
      > > > there any other place that would be acceptable?  I appreciate
      your
      > > > sharing the information about the okra, yellow cornmeal, and
      palm
      > > > oil.
      > > >
      > > > Thanks.... :)
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In aleyos-online@yahoogroups.com, "saffronwolf"
      > > > <saffronwolf@m...> wrote:
      > > > > what if you don't live where there are palm trees
      > > > >
      > > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > > From: kingshytestarter [mailto:kingshytestarter@y...]
      > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 6:51 PM
      > > > > To: aleyos-online@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Subject: [aleyos-online] Re: Sango
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > The Biggest Palm tree you can find, he love oakra mixed with
      yellow
      > > > > corn meal and palm oil. put it in a small paper bag and rap
      it with
      > > > a
      > > > > red ribbin and leave it under the palm tree for shango, i
      use this
      > > > to
      > > > > clean my self off good and then i left it. Hope this helps :)
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In aleyos-online@yahoogroups.com, "goldenfireempress1"
      > > > > <goldenfireempress1@y...> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Alafia,
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Here I go with another question.  :)  Where would I make
      an
      > > > > offering
      > > > > > to Sango?  For example, I would go to the river to talk to
      > > > Oshun. 
      > > > > > What would be Shango's domain? 
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Thanks and Blessings to all...
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > 
      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      >
      >
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      > Denise
      >
      >            
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    • kingshytestarter
      Thank you sweetie I am so happy to be back as well. ... this ... place ... stay ... happy ... any ... see ... enthusiasm ... their ... cannot ... need ... need
      Message 35 of 35 , Mar 11, 2005
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        Thank you sweetie I am so happy to be back as well.

        --- In aleyos-online@yahoogroups.com, "goldenfireempress1"
        <goldenfireempress1@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Hey King...
        >
        > I am so glad you are back!!!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In aleyos-online@yahoogroups.com, "bjamaica1" <Bjamaica1@y...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > No problem. I am new to this group. Just thought it was in
        > > interesting name. LOL
        > >
        > > BJ
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In aleyos-online@yahoogroups.com, "kingshytestarter"
        > > <kingshytestarter@y...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > many years ago i was and still am in this yahoo chat group,
        this
        > > chat
        > > > group is off the scales. if you have thin skin it is not a
        place
        > for
        > > > the average yahoo user. well they in the group gave me the name
        > and
        > > it
        > > > kinda stuck over the years besides it's all in fun. In this
        > group
        > > and
        > > > forum you guys see a much more serious spiritual side of me. so
        > > please
        > > > Exccuse the name in here.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In aleyos-online@yahoogroups.com, "bjamaica1"
        > <Bjamaica1@y...>
        > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > alafia,
        > > > >
        > > > > I am glad that you are back. By the way, I meant to ask you
        > this
        > > > > question before, how did you come up with your screen name.
        > > > > Inquiring minds want to know. :-)
        > > > >
        > > > > BJ
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In aleyos-online@yahoogroups.com, "kingshytestarter"
        > > > > <kingshytestarter@y...> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I was so very touched in my heart by what you said, you
        > > explained
        > > > > > things so beautifully and made me realize that I should
        stay
        > > and
        > > > > > continue to learn and grow with the group. So I applied
        > again
        > > and
        > > > > to
        > > > > > my surprise the moderator let me back in and I am very
        happy
        > > > > because
        > > > > > this is my favorite Group and I was missing you guys to
        > death
        > > to be
        > > > > > honest. I think you should open your mouth more and post
        > more
        > > > > often.
        > > > > > I also like to say thank you to the others People that sent
        > me
        > > mail
        > > > > > and urge me to come back, it feels nice to be wanted
        > somewhere
        > > and
        > > > > I
        > > > > > am very humbled by you guys.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In aleyos-online@yahoogroups.com, "Will" <diviner@c...>
        > > wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Alafia,
        > > > > > > I have watched this thread with interest and held back
        any
        > > > > comment
        > > > > > up
        > > > > > > to now. The people who have read my previous posts can
        see
        > > that I
        > > > > > dont
        > > > > > > speak unless spoken to or unless I see something that is
        > > leading
        > > > > to
        > > > > > > the type of situation we have going on here. I have not
        > even
        > > > > > gotten my
        > > > > > > Elekes or Guerros yet, but despite that I am a Diviner
        > with
        > > 20
        > > > > > years
        > > > > > > of experiance and Abba (father) in my tradition of two
        > dozen
        > > > > > initiated
        > > > > > > "children". I may not be able to speak of Ocha as an
        > initiate
        > > but
        > > > > I
        > > > > > > will speak here as a teacher...
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > kingshytestarter, I can see that you have great
        enthusiasm
        > > for the
        > > > > > > Orishas, your Ile, and all things Ocha. I see that you
        > have
        > > the
        > > > > > great
        > > > > > > desire to help others. Your behavior is very much the
        > > behavior of
        > > > > > an
        > > > > > > Ochun, you have learned to read the cocos and they will
        > tell
        > > you
        > > > > > such.
        > > > > > > I understand the frustration of wanting to help in this
        > > situation
        > > > > > and
        > > > > > > it is very difficult to help when one does not know the
        > > manner or
        > > > > > > reasons for why a godparent conducts themself as they do.
        > > Your
        > > > > > Padrino
        > > > > > > encourages you to seek and to find out. He sees that you
        > have
        > > the
        > > > > > need
        > > > > > > to 'DO'. Your Padrino sees that you have the talent to
        > find
        > > your
        > > > > > own
        > > > > > > answers and even pushes you to do so. The other persons
        > > > > Godparents
        > > > > > see
        > > > > > > that she needs to be handled with care. For their own
        > reasons
        > > they
        > > > > > > have not encouraged her to read the cocos. It may be
        their
        > > policy
        > > > > > in
        > > > > > > their Ile or it may be a feeling they have about her in
        > > > > particular.
        > > > > > > But in either case Ile is Ile and path is path, one
        cannot
        > > happily
        > > > > > > give information to an aleyo if that information has been
        > > held
        > > > > back
        > > > > > > for their well being or for the sake of the rules of the
        > > house
        > > > > she
        > > > > > is
        > > > > > > in. Your Ile and Padrino encourage you to be you. You
        need
        > > the
        > > > > info
        > > > > > > and the things they have given you. They see what you
        need
        > > and
        > > > > move
        > > > > > > accordingly. She is being handled according to her Ile
        and
        > > her
        > > > > > needs.
        > > > > > > "Each house has its own doors"
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > You must understand that with a handle that reads
        > like 'king
        > > shit
        > > > > > > starter' that people may expect you to be a trouble maker
        > or
        > > to be
        > > > > > > disrespectful. I think that you must remember that there
        > is a
        > > > > > certain
        > > > > > > pattern of behavior that sometimes comes up in an omo
        > ochun.
        > > > > > The "I am
        > > > > > > going to take my marbles and go home..." response when an
        > > Ochun
        > > > > is
        > > > > > not
        > > > > > > praised for doing something they think is helpful. I do
        > not
        > > speak
        > > > > > in
        > > > > > > disrespect for the great and beautiful Ochun, rather I
        > speak
        > > > > > > (respectfully) of the many Omo Ochun I have know
        > personally
        > > (I
        > > > > > seem to
        > > > > > > attract them and Omo Changos as well). Personally I am
        > very
        > > > > > greatful
        > > > > > > for the information you posted on reading the cocos,
        > because
        > > it
        > > > > > adds
        > > > > > > to the body of knowledge I already have on the subject
        and
        > > like
        > > > > > you,
        > > > > > > my Madrina encourages me to seek information as I can.
        She
        > > has
        > > > > > applied
        > > > > > > to join this forum as she wishes to see where I have
        > learned
        > > so
        > > > > > much,
        > > > > > > and hopfully the moderators will get to her application
        > soon.
        > > You
        > > > > > > wanted to help, you helped me (and probley several others
        > > here).
        > > > > > You
        > > > > > > must remember the simple fact that 'the road to hell is
        > paved
        > > with
        > > > > > > good intentions". In other words often our desire to help
        > > leads
        > > > > us
        > > > > > to
        > > > > > > do things that cause us or others distress later. Do not
        > take
        > > your
        > > > > > > marbles and go home, otherwise how can you and I compare
        > > marble
        > > > > > > collections? You have defered to an elder, that is right
        > and
        > > > > > proper,
        > > > > > > but leaving is not proper.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Dulakaba Shanaku 30th Abba of the Datu
        > > > > > > (William Phillip aleyo en ocha)
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Defering to an elder is good behavior, model behavior
        > > > > > > --- In aleyos-online@yahoogroups.com, "kingshytestarter"
        > > > > > > <kingshytestarter@y...> wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > You are my Elder and you are also Crown by Oshun, So I
        > have
        > > > > much
        > > > > > > > respect for what you had to say about my post and I
        will
        > > not
        > > > > > > > challenge you here in anyway. According to my Mana Del
        > > Orula I
        > > > > > have
        > > > > > > > received I too shall be Crown Oshun. I didn't mean to
        > lay
        > > any
        > > > > > doubts
        > > > > > > > in the mine of the woman speaking to me, because I
        > Assumed
        > > that
        > > > > > she
        > > > > > > > had a mind of her own and could think for her self, as
        > far
        > > as I
        > > > > > could
        > > > > > > > tell I did hold my Tongue as I am doing now out of
        > respect
        > > for
        > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > orisha that crowns you and the many years you have over
        > me
        > > as
        > > > > my
        > > > > > > > elder. I have nothing further to say in this forum
        > anymore.
        > > I
        > > > > > will
        > > > > > > > just leave and keep my thoughts and comments to my
        self.
        > > Again
        > > > > I
        > > > > > > > would like to say I never meant any disrespect to
        anyone
        > > here.
        > > > > I
        > > > > > just
        > > > > > > > love to share my experience¬Ö.the little I do have
        > anyway. I
        > > > > have
        > > > > > 7
        > > > > > > > years under two elder Witches before I even found
        > Santeria,
        > > I
        > > > > > have my
        > > > > > > > elekes and my warriors and my Olokun and 4 Eleguas, and
        > > soon I
        > > > > > will
        > > > > > > > have the twins also. I am very proud of my
        > accomplishments
        > > > > > > > And I can't wait to become priest in this religion and
        > also
        > > > > Tata
        > > > > > > > Nganga in Palo. But one thing I will take with me
        before
        > I
        > > > > leave
        > > > > > this
        > > > > > > > forum and that is your advice to tell them to speak to
        > > there
        > > > > God
        > > > > > > > Parents. I wish you all the very best of Experiences in
        > > this
        > > > > > forum I
        > > > > > > > hope I will run into some of you in the future. Keep an
        > eye
        > > out
        > > > > > for
        > > > > > > > this Child of Oshun , I am sure one day I will be
        worthy
        > > enough
        > > > > > to be
        > > > > > > > called a Santero.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > --- In aleyos-online@yahoogroups.com, "Silvy"
        > <s_frak@y...>
        > > > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > I am sorry but you said you were going to hold your
        > > tongue on
        > > > > > this
        > > > > > > > one
        > > > > > > > > and you didn't. You can actually put a lot of doubts
        > on
        > > a
        > > > > > person's
        > > > > > > > > head by writing such a post. You don't know the
        > reasons
        > > > > > behind her
        > > > > > > > > not being able to throw the Obi, her godparent might
        > know
        > > > > > something
        > > > > > > > > and don't want to reveal to her. When I was an Aleyo
        > > there
        > > > > > were
        > > > > > > > > things that my godfather told me to do and he would
        > just
        > > say
        > > > > > NINA I
        > > > > > > > > know what I am telling you to do and just do it!
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Having her warriors for 2 years doesn't mean that she
        > > doesn't
        > > > > > talk
        > > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > > them, don't you light your Elegua every Monday and
        > blow
        > > rum
        > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > cigar
        > > > > > > > > smoke on him? Don't you give him candy and pray to
        > him?
        > > > > Don't
        > > > > > you
        > > > > > > > > actually have a conversation with him on that day,
        > that
        > > is
        > > > > > talking
        > > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > > them and if you really have a connection with the
        > Orisha
        > > you
        > > > > > don't
        > > > > > > > > need to pick up the Obi every minute you have a
        > question,
        > > > > > unless it
        > > > > > > > is
        > > > > > > > > very important.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Obi can be deceitful too and give you the wrong
        > answers,
        > > > > there
        > > > > > is a
        > > > > > > > > whole story about that.... but I won't get into it.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Just be careful what you say to other people, you
        > might
        > > create
        > > > > > > > > confusion in their head and with their Ile.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > The best suggestion that you can give anyone is to
        ask
        > > your
        > > > > > > > godfather,
        > > > > > > > > also your mother is a Santera, she can also help you
        > > > > > understand the
        > > > > > > > > religion better. Communication and respect will be
        > the
        > > most
        > > > > > > > important
        > > > > > > > > thing for any aleyo to have a peaceful development in
        > > this
        > > > > > > > religion.
        > > > > > > > > Without the communication and respect you cannot get
        > very
        > > > > far,
        > > > > > trust
        > > > > > > > > me I've seen horrors.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Also, it is a great disrespect for anyone to come on
        a
        > > board
        > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > complain about their godparents, go to them directly
        > and
        > > tell
        > > > > > them
        > > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > > their face how you feel... Trust me it is the best
        way
        > to
        > > go
        > > > > > about
        > > > > > > > it!
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > You must be able to communicate with your godparent,
        > he
        > > is
        > > > > > > > responsible
        > > > > > > > > for your head.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > I say this with much respect to all the Santeros and
        > > > > Aleyos...
        > > > > > > > > Silvy
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > --- In aleyos-
        > online@yahoogroups.com, "kingshytestarter"
        > > > > > > > > <kingshytestarter@y...> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > I will Hold My Tounge On This One in Respect For
        > Your
        > > God
        > > > > > > > Parents. I
        > > > > > > > > > am only a Aleyo and i am Not Grown and even if i
        was
        > > they
        > > > > > would
        > > > > > > > be my
        > > > > > > > > > elders so i can not speak on them. what i will say
        > is
        > > this,
        > > > > > My God
        > > > > > > > > > Father wants us to stand on our own two feet, a lot
        > of
        > > > > > things we
        > > > > > > > can't
        > > > > > > > > > do because we are not Made as yet. But Tossing Obi
        > to
        > > your
        > > > > > > > warriors is
        > > > > > > > > > not one of them. them your warriors and in my
        Humble
        > > Option
        > > > > > you
        > > > > > > > should
        > > > > > > > > > know how to speak with them. and my God woman you
        > have
        > > had
        > > > > > them
        > > > > > > > for 2
        > > > > > > > > > Freaking years! and you don't have a clue how to
        > work
        > > them
        > > > > > or even
        > > > > > > > > > speak to them. LOL let me tell you something...when
        > i
        > > > > called
        > > > > > my
        > > > > > > > God
        > > > > > > > > > father to ask him something you know what he says
        to
        > > me?
        > > > > did
        > > > > > you
        > > > > > > > ask
        > > > > > > > > > your Elegua first before coming to me? go back and
        > ask
        > > your
        > > > > > > > Elegua and
        > > > > > > > > > if you have trouble or you are confuse on something
        > > then
        > > > > > come to
        > > > > > > > me.
        > > > > > > > > > and another thing if the orisha's give there
        > blessing
        > > to do
        > > > > > > > something
        > > > > > > > > > then WORD IS BORN! but guess what? you got to know
        > how
        > > to
        > > > > > speak to
        > > > > > > > > > your elegua to find out if it's cool or not. I am
        > very
        > > > > Proud
        > > > > > of
        > > > > > > > my ile
        > > > > > > > > > and my God Father ROCKS! every iLe/house does
        things
        > > > > > diffrent and
        > > > > > > > if
        > > > > > > > > > you love and Trust your God Parents and comfitible
        > in
        > > your
        > > > > > house
        > > > > > > > then
        > > > > > > > > > shut up and and do what your told. if not then
        leave
        > > your
        > > > > > house
        > > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > > find another one that you are cofitible in. That's
        > just
        > > > > > being real
        > > > > > > > > > with you. sometimes you must listen to what your
        > head
        > > is
        > > > > > trying to
        > > > > > > > > > tell you, or even your dreams because a lot of
        times
        > > the
        > > > > > orisha's
        > > > > > > > will
        > > > > > > > > > speak to you in your dreams and give you direction.
        > > anyway
        > > > > > that's
        > > > > > > > my 2
        > > > > > > > > > cents for today. :)
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > --- In aleyos-online@yahoogroups.com, Denise Mauri
        > > > > > <dmauri66@y...>
        > > > > > > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the information. I have had my
        > worriors
        > > for
        > > > > > about 2
        > > > > > > > > > years, la entrada was done 3 months after I
        received
        > > them.
        > > > > > I
        > > > > > > > know how
        > > > > > > > > > to care for them but I was not taught to throw the
        > > coco.
        > > > > > Why? I
        > > > > > > > don't
        > > > > > > > > > know, everytime I want to learn something I am told
        > > that I
        > > > > > can't
        > > > > > > > > > because I am in the process of doing Santo. I have
        > > noticed
        > > > > > I am
        > > > > > > > told
        > > > > > > > > > "you can't do that yet" a lot. I am impulsive and
        I
        > > love
        > > > > to
        > > > > > read,
        > > > > > > > > > learn and do. I get a speech all the time on how
        > the
        > > > > > orishas will
        > > > > > > > > > take the talent from me if I do things before my
        > time,
        > > for
        > > > > > > > example, I
        > > > > > > > > > set up and decorated the Altar for my mom's Santo
        > > OBATALA -
        > > > > > I love
        > > > > > > > > > him, I felt compeld to decorate and set up the
        > thrown -
        > > He
        > > > > > know I
        > > > > > > > did
        > > > > > > > > > it out of love for him and the rest of the orishas,
        > it
        > > was
        > > > > a
        > > > > > > > beautiful
        > > > > > > > > > thrown. I dressed all the Orishas with their
        Shawls
        > > and
        > > > > > Crowns,
        > > > > > > > they
        > > > > > > > > > were ALL beautifully presented they looked like the
        > > Kings
        > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > Queens
        > > > > > > > > > that they are. My Godparents came by for the
        > > celebration,
        > > > > > once
        > > > > > > > they
        > > > > > > > > > saw it they asked who set up and
        > > > > > > > > > > decorated the Alter, they were very impressed
        and
        > > needed
        > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > know
        > > > > > > > > > who she hired to do the job. Once my mom said I did
        > it -
        > > I
        > > > > > was
        > > > > > > > pulled
        > > > > > > > > > aside and instructed me to never do that again.
        > When I
        > > > > > asked why,
        > > > > > > > > > they told me the Orishas will take away my talent.
        > I
        > > > > > explained I
        > > > > > > > did
        > > > > > > > > > it out of love for the Orishas. The whole time I
        > was
        > > > > > setting up
        > > > > > > > each
        > > > > > > > > > orisha, I prayed to them, asking them permission to
        > > dress
        > > > > > them up
        > > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > > asked for forgiveness if I was not supposed to be
        > doing
        > > > > > this, but
        > > > > > > > it
        > > > > > > > > > was all from my heart and love for them. My
        > > Godparent's
        > > > > > spoke to
        > > > > > > > me
        > > > > > > > > > some more and I said fine, what ever. The Orisha's
        > > know I
        > > > > > did it
        > > > > > > > out
        > > > > > > > > > of love, it was the least I could do for them.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > kingshytestarter <kingshytestarter@y...> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > Well you need to ask your God Parents how to
        > through
        > > Obi
        > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > Your
        > > > > > > > > > > Elegua. i'm very surprize you do not know how to
        > toss
        > > the
        > > > > > > > coconuts
        > > > > > > > > > > as yet. because speaking to your Elegua brings
        you
        > > too
        > > > > > closer
        > > > > > > > > > > togather and besides that you need to know how to
        > > work
        > > > > > your
        > > > > > > > Elegua
        > > > > > > > > > > and your warriors. I do not know if you just
        > recieved
        > > > > your
        > > > > > > > warriors
        > > > > > > > > > > because my God Father wouldn't let me work mine
        > until
        > > 3
        > > > > > months
        > > > > > > > had
        > > > > > > > > > > pass of my recieving mine. oh yea they also need
        > to
        > > be
        > > > > fed
        > > > > > at
        > > > > > > > your
        > > > > > > > > > > front door after 3 months. but anyway i know that
        > i
        > > am
        > > > > > going to
        > > > > > > > be
        > > > > > > > > > > drag through the coals again for opening my big
        > mouth
        > > in
        > > > > > here
        > > > > > > > but
        > > > > > > > > > > here it goes anyway. This is How i toss Obi and
        > this
        > > will
        > > > > > very
        > > > > > > > a lot
        > > > > > > > > > > from house to house on the preyer part of it, but
        > > this is
        > > > > > how i
        > > > > > > > do
        > > > > > > > > > > it so i hope your ready for Kings Crash Course on
        > how
        > > to
        > > > > > > > Through Obi
        > > > > > > > > > > LOL.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > 1st thing you need is a nice size coconut and a
        > > hammer.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > 2st thing you need to do is hold the coconut and
        > ask
        > > Obi
        > > > > > > > > > > permisission to open his coconut for divination.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > 3. you crack the coconut in Left hand and hammer
        > in
        > > your
        > > > > > right
        > > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > > > DO NOT crack the coconut on the floor with the
        > > hammer, to
        > > > > > it in
        > > > > > > > your
        > > > > > > > > > > hands. might be a wise idea here to save the
        juice
        > > for
        > > > > > later to
        > > > > > > > > > > clean your own head.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > once you have it open in half, break it the two
        > > pieaces
        > > > > > you
        > > > > > > > have in
        > > > > > > > > > > half again. should give you a total of 4 big
        > pieces.
        > > take
        > > > > > a
        > > > > > > > blade of
        > > > > > > > > > > a knigh and stick it in between the coconut and
        > the
        > > meat
        > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > give it
        > > > > > > > > > > a light twist back and forth to pry the meat away
        > > from
        > > > > the
        > > > > > > > coconut
        > > > > > > > > > > IN ONE PIEACE. this takes skill and practice as
        > > anyone
        > > > > > here
        > > > > > > > will
        > > > > > > > > > > sure to tell you. anyway once you have all the
        > meat
        > > out
        > > > > of
        > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > shells. take your blade and carve you 5 nice
        > rounded
        > > > > > pieaces
        > > > > > > > make
        > > > > > > > > > > sure there are know cracks running in the round
        > > pieaces.
        > > > > > then
        > > > > > > > drop
        > > > > > > > > > > them in a bowl of water and place then in the ice
        > box
        > > > > > until you
        > > > > > > > > > > ready to begin.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > now pull out your straw mat and place elegua at
        > the
        > > top
        > > > > of
        > > > > > it.
        > > > > > > > > > > before your Elegua place the coco's Generally
        the
        > > > > > smallest of
        > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > coco's near elegua as a witness to the ceremony.
        > and
        > > then
        > > > > > place
        > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > other for under that one. tear 3 little tiny
        > pieace
        > > from
        > > > > > each
        > > > > > > > one
        > > > > > > > > > > and sprinkly over Elegua. now from a seperate
        > Gourd
        > > or
        > > > > cup
        > > > > > of
        > > > > > > > cool
        > > > > > > > > > > water sprinkle the coconuts that should all be
        > facing
        > > > > > white
        > > > > > > > side up
        > > > > > > > > > > on the mat while you do this chant:
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > ago obi {3 times}
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > obi ni ibi iku
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > obi ni ibi arun
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > obi ni ibi ofo
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > obi ni ibi fitibo bi ni ibi indina
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > sprinkle tree drops of water before Elegua
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > Holding your 4 obi shells white side up in your
        > left
        > > hand
        > > > > > > > kneeling
        > > > > > > > > > > on the floor befor your elegua chant:
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > He mo ki e o (3 times}
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > switching the ibi shells from the left to the the
        > > right
        > > > > > hand
        > > > > > > > you
        > > > > > > > > > > then chant:
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > He mo ki e o iki eye {3 times}
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > switching back to your left hand you knock on the
        > mat
        > > > > with
        > > > > > your
        > > > > > > > > > > right hand and chant:
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > Obi (the name of your Elegua}, iLe mo ki e o iki
        > eye
        > > (3
        > > > > > times)
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > Now stand up and from your waist height you move
        > your
        > > > > > cupped
        > > > > > > > hands
        > > > > > > > > > > with the coconuts him them in a clockwise cirular
        > > motion
        > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > ask
        > > > > > > > > > > Elegua if he will speak then drop the coconuts on
        > the
        > > > > mat.
        > > > > > > > Alafia
        > > > > > > > > > > (all white) means yes with blessing, but you must
        > > toss
        > > > > > them
        > > > > > > > again to
        > > > > > > > > > > make sure, if you get Ejiefe with two black and
        > two
        > > white
        > > > > > this
        > > > > > > > is
        > > > > > > > > > > Yes! you might get 3 white and one black {aiafia}
        > > this is
        > > > > > also
        > > > > > > > > > > yes,if you get 3 dark and one white {okana}it
        > means
        > > NO.
        > > > > if
        > > > > > this
        > > > > > > > > > > happens to fall, start over but call to elegua
        and
        > > say a
        > > > > > preyer
        > > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > > > > him before starting the ritual. if he answers
        > Okana
        > > > > again,
        > > > > > try
        > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > next day. don't bother him again. now of you get
        4
        > > darks,
        > > > > > don't
        > > > > > > > > > > panic or freak out, just means the dead stand to
        > > speak,
        > > > > > ask
        > > > > > > > elegua
        > > > > > > > > > > if this is what it is if this falls, if so stop
        > and
        > > talk
        > > > > > to the
        > > > > > > > dead
        > > > > > > > > > > immediately. then talk to elegua afterthey have
        > said
        > > what
        > > > > > they
        > > > > > > > have
        > > > > > > > > > > to say. if Oyeku doesn't mean the dead, then find
        > out
        > > > > what
        > > > > > it
        > > > > > > > is
        > > > > > > > > > > about. keep your questions simple yes and no
        > > questions
        > > > > and
        > > > > > be
        > > > > > > > > > > Pacific in what you ask.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > four example i ask Elegua if i would win the
        lotto
        > > one
        > > > > > day, to
        > > > > > > > my
        > > > > > > > > > > surpize he said yes! the next day i played the
        > lotto
        > > like
        > > > > > i was
        > > > > > > > > > > beating on a hourse race. in deed i won! but it
        > was
        > > only
        > > > > 3
        > > > > > > > dollars
        > > > > > > > > > > LOL, Got to love Elegua and his tricks.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > 1. 4 whites is YES on your first toss, but it
        > needs
        > > tO be
        > > > > > > > follow up
        > > > > > > > > > > by a secant toss to make sure.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > 2. WHITES AND ONE BLACK means yes but also needs
        > to
        > > be
        > > > > > followed
        > > > > > > > up
        > > > > > > > > > > by another toss.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > 3. 2 WHITE AND TWO BLACK is there most solid yes!
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > 4. 3 BLACK AND 1 WHITE means NO!
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > 5. ALL BLACK ask if the dead wish to speak! if
        not
        > > there
        > > > > > is a
        > > > > > > > > > > problem. find out what it is or have a more
        > experince
        > > > > > santero
        > > > > > > > > > > babalaow find out what is going on right away!
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > This is only my way of doing things i am sure
        > there
        > > are
        > > > > > others
        > > > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > > > > will have a lot to say about it. but it works for
        > me
        > > and
        > > > > > my
        > > > > > > > Elegua's
        > > > > > > > > > > so good luck :)
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > --- In aleyos-online@yahoogroups.com, Denise
        Mauri
        > > > > > > > <dmauri66@y...>
        > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > Bendicion
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > How exactly would you ask Elegua and how would
        > you
        > > know
        > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > answer?
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > kingshytestarter <kingshytestarter@y...> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Left somethng out...after 3 days go back to
        > Elegua
        > > and
        > > > > > ask
        > > > > > > > him
        > > > > > > > > > > wear to
        > > > > > > > > > > > dispose of the offering.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > 1. the woods against a pine tree?
        > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Garbage heep?
        > > > > > > > > > > > 3. bushes? ect. ect.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > --- In aleyos-
        > > online@yahoogroups.com, "kingshytestarter"
        > > > > > > > > > > > <kingshytestarter@y...> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok well this is what i would do and this is
        > only
        > > my
        > > > > > option.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > I am Assuming you have Warriors? if so put
        the
        > > > > package
        > > > > > > > togather
        > > > > > > > > > > as i
        > > > > > > > > > > > > said before inside the brown papper bag with
        > red
        > > > > > ribbon.
        > > > > > > > and go
        > > > > > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > > > > > > your Elegua and explain to him to Give The
        > ACHE
        > > to
        > > > > > Chango!
        > > > > > > > > > > Through Obi
        > > > > > > > > > > > > to him and make sure he understands and
        > agrees.
        > > kick
        > > > > > him 3
        > > > > > > > > > > candies and
        > > > > > > > > > > > > be done with it. or you can fine the biggest
        > Pine
        > > > > tree
        > > > > > > > around and
        > > > > > > > > > > > > leave it there, Chango will know it for him
        > with
        > > all
        > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > okra
        > > > > > > > > > > > > smelling up the woods LOL
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In aleyos-
        > > > > > online@yahoogroups.com, "goldenfireempress1"
        > > > > > > > > > > > > <goldenfireempress1@y...> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi King....
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the tip. Ironically saffronwolf
        > > asked
        > > > > my
        > > > > > next
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > question. :) Unfortunately, I don't live
        > > anywhere
        > > > > > near
        > > > > > > > a
        > > > > > > > > > > beach. Is
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > there any other place that would be
        > > acceptable? I
        > > > > > > > appreciate
        > > > > > > > > > > your
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > sharing the information about the okra,
        > yellow
        > > > > > cornmeal,
        > > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > > > palm
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > oil.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks.... :)
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In aleyos-
        > > online@yahoogroups.com, "saffronwolf"
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > <saffronwolf@m...> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what if you don't live where there are
        > palm
        > > trees
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: kingshytestarter
        > > > > > [mailto:kingshytestarter@y...]
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 6:51 PM
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: aleyos-online@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [aleyos-online] Re: Sango
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Biggest Palm tree you can find, he
        > love
        > > oakra
        > > > > > mixed
        > > > > > > > with
        > > > > > > > > > > yellow
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > corn meal and palm oil. put it in a small
        > > paper
        > > > > > bag and
        > > > > > > > rap
        > > > > > > > > > > it with
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > a
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > red ribbin and leave it under the palm
        > tree
        > > for
        > > > > > shango,
        > > > > > > > i
        > > > > > > > > > > use this
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clean my self off good and then i left
        it.
        > > Hope
        > > > > > this
        > > > > > > > helps :)
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In aleyos-
        > > > > > > > online@yahoogroups.com, "goldenfireempress1"
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <goldenfireempress1@y...> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alafia,
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here I go with another question. :)
        > Where
        > > > > > would I
        > > > > > > > make
        > > > > > > > > > > an
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > offering
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to Sango? For example, I would go to
        > the
        > > river
        > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > talk to
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oshun.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What would be Shango's domain?
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Blessings to all...
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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