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Re: [albanach] Correct term confirmation?

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  • obsidian@raex.com
    Greetings I m not sure where you are getting the saltire cross from, what s your source? Early Moray Arms were: Azure, three mullets argent, two and one -
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 20, 2010
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      Greetings

      I'm not sure where you are getting the saltire cross
      from, what's your source? Early Moray Arms were: "Azure, three
      mullets argent, two and one" - that's the heraldic blazon. In
      untechnical language, that would be "Three white five-pointed stars
      arranged in a triangle pointing down, on a blue background.

      Cordially;
      Bruce Gordon

      On Mon, December 20, 2010 2:11
      pm, Diana Cosby wrote:
      > I am describing Andrew de Moray's
      shield. Am I correct in saying,
      > "a swath of deep blue
      complimented with a St. Andrew's Cross Argent and
      > three mullets
      Argent." ??? My sincere thanks for your time.
      >
      >
      Diana Cosby, International Best-Selling Author
      >
      www.dianacosby.com <http://www.dianacosby.com/>
      > His
      Captive-Alexander MacGruder/ His Woman-Duncan MacGruder/ His
      >
      Conquest-Seathan MacGruder
      > His Destiny - Oct 2011
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >


      --
      "Ausculta, feminae novae
      in lacunis recumbens gladii dispensans non fundamentum pro formula
      administrationis est."
      -
      http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/regindex.html


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Kevin Myers
      I would suggest field instead of swath , swath is more like a broad stripe, while field suggests more of a background. But otherwise, if avoiding the
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 20, 2010
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        I would suggest 'field' instead of 'swath', 'swath' is more like a broad
        stripe, while 'field' suggests more of a background.
        But otherwise, if avoiding the heraldic blazoning, your description seems
        good. Or maybe, "three white stars on an azure field"?

        Sin mo dha phingin....

        Kevin

        -----Original Message-----
        From: albanach@yahoogroups.com [mailto:albanach@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Diana Cosby
        Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 1:44 PM
        To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [albanach] Correct term confirmation?

        ~Hi Cathal, as you saw, I was trying to weave a mix of both for a
        'taste' of the medieval setting. For guidance I used the photo at:
        http://www.andrewdemoray.com/
        Do you think it's best to keep it simple and say, "Framed with a deep
        blue, an azure swath complimented by three white stars?" My sincere
        thanks for any insight. Happy Holidays!

        Diana Cosby, International Best-Selling Author
        www.dianacosby.com <http://www.dianacosby.com/>
        His Captive-Alexander MacGruder/ His Woman-Duncan MacGruder/ His
        Conquest-Seathan MacGruder
        His Destiny - Oct 2011


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ------------------------------------

        This is Albanach, a group devoted to the study and re-enactment of
        Scotland c. 503-1603 AD. Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Diana Cosby
        ... ~I like that, clean, states it clearly. I ll use something to that effect, my sincere thanks. The stars are silver? They looked white from the picture.
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 20, 2010
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          Cathal wrote:

          >>~Hi Cathal, as you saw, I was trying to weave a mix of both for a
          >>'taste' of the medieval setting. For guidance I used the photo at:
          >>http://www.andrewdemoray.com/
          >>Do you think it's best to keep it simple and say, "Framed with a
          >>deep
          >>blue, an azure swath complimented by three white stars?" My sincere
          >>thanks for any insight. Happy Holidays!
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >How about 'on a field of deepest blue, three silver stars'?
          >
          >
          ~I like that, clean, states it clearly. I'll use something to that
          effect, my sincere thanks. The stars are silver? They looked white
          from the picture. My sincere thanks for everything!


          Diana Cosby, International Best-Selling Author
          www.dianacosby.com <http://www.dianacosby.com/>
          His Captive-Alexander MacGruder/ His Woman-Duncan MacGruder/ His
          Conquest-Seathan MacGruder
          His Destiny - Oct 2011


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Cathal
          ... In Heraldry, there are two metals ...Or and Argent. Depending on the medium they are emblazoned with, they can be Or= gold/yellow (N.b. the yellow is a
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 20, 2010
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            >>How about 'on a field of deepest blue, three silver stars'?
            >>
            >>
            > ~I like that, clean, states it clearly. I'll use something to that
            > effect, my sincere thanks. The stars are silver? They looked white
            > from the picture. My sincere thanks for everything!
            >
            >
            > Diana Cosby,

            In Heraldry, there are two 'metals'...Or and Argent.

            Depending on the medium they are emblazoned with, they can be
            Or= gold/yellow (N.b. the 'yellow' is a true yellow not saffron,
            tawny or any of the variants)
            Argent=silver/white.

            Generally the blazon is as the metal not the color, while the emblazon
            can be either.

            Hence: Azure, three stars of five points two and one, Argent.

            (Blazon-how you describe the heraldry in technical terms)
            (Emblazon-how you draw it )
          • Diana Cosby
            ... ~Bruce, -blush-, when I doubled checked, I saw there wasn t a saltire cross. My sincere thanks and have a wonderful holiday season! Diana Cosby,
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 20, 2010
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              obsidian@... wrote:

              >Greetings
              >
              >I'm not sure where you are getting the saltire cross
              >from, what's your source? Early Moray Arms were: "Azure, three
              >mullets argent, two and one" - that's the heraldic blazon. In
              >untechnical language, that would be "Three white five-pointed stars
              >arranged in a triangle pointing down, on a blue background.
              >
              >
              ~Bruce, -blush-, when I doubled checked, I saw there wasn't a saltire
              cross. My sincere thanks and have a wonderful holiday season!

              Diana Cosby, International Best-Selling Author
              www.dianacosby.com <http://www.dianacosby.com/>
              His Captive-Alexander MacGruder/ His Woman-Duncan MacGruder/ His
              Conquest-Seathan MacGruder
              His Destiny - Oct 2011


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Diana Cosby
              My sincere thanks to all who offered suggestions and/or an explanation about the correct description for describing Andrew de Moray s shield. I hope your New
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 28, 2010
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                My sincere thanks to all who offered suggestions and/or an
                explanation about the correct description for describing Andrew de
                Moray's shield. I hope your New Year is the best yet!
                Sincerely,

                Diana Cosby, International Best-Selling Author
                www.dianacosby.com <http://www.dianacosby.com/>
                His Captive-Alexander MacGruder/ His Woman-Duncan MacGruder/ His
                Conquest-Seathan MacGruder
                His Destiny - Oct 2011


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Robert Sehon
                But don t forget the border around the arms.  That is vitally important in Scottish Heraldry as it is one of the ways Lord Lion, King of Arms differentiates
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 30, 2010
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                  But don't forget the border around the arms.  That is vitally important in
                  Scottish Heraldry as it is one of the ways Lord Lion, King of Arms
                  differentiates one cadet line from another.  And the border is often charged
                  with other heraldic devices, as in this case. However, my resolution isn't good
                  enough to really tell what the charges are.  This may be too much accuracy for
                  your purpose, but accuracy was important when you're about to brain somebody
                  with a mace...




                  ________________________________
                  From: Cathal <cathal@...>
                  To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Mon, December 20, 2010 2:37:14 PM
                  Subject: Re: [albanach] Correct term confirmation?

                   
                  >>How about 'on a field of deepest blue, three silver stars'?
                  >>
                  >>
                  > ~I like that, clean, states it clearly. I'll use something to that
                  > effect, my sincere thanks. The stars are silver? They looked white
                  > from the picture. My sincere thanks for everything!
                  >
                  >
                  > Diana Cosby,

                  In Heraldry, there are two 'metals'...Or and Argent.

                  Depending on the medium they are emblazoned with, they can be
                  Or= gold/yellow (N.b. the 'yellow' is a true yellow not saffron,
                  tawny or any of the variants)
                  Argent=silver/white.

                  Generally the blazon is as the metal not the color, while the emblazon
                  can be either.

                  Hence: Azure, three stars of five points two and one, Argent.

                  (Blazon-how you describe the heraldry in technical terms)
                  (Emblazon-how you draw it )







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • obsidian@raex.com
                  The Moray arms displays no bordure - there are some heraldic representations that strive for a chiseled, 3-dimensional effect; it s very misleading (as well as
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 30, 2010
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                    The Moray arms displays no bordure - there are some heraldic
                    representations that strive for a chiseled, 3-dimensional effect; it's
                    very misleading (as well as being ghastly artwork), since such a thing
                    does, in fact, look a bit like an heraldic bordure. But the Moray Ancient
                    blazon is definitive: "Azure, three mullets, two and one,
                    argent". No bordure. You do encounter marks of cadency at times in
                    later versions; the label, the bend, and yes, a bordure, among others; but
                    that's 15th and 16th century stuff, it isn't seen much in the 13th or 14th
                    century. And when a cadency mark does occur, it's always entered into the
                    blazon in regular fashion. I'd have to look it up, but I think Diane's
                    subject was eldest son - if so, he'd use the Label, if it were in use at
                    all in the 1290's.

                    Bruce

                    On Thu, December 30, 2010
                    4:17 pm, Robert Sehon wrote:
                    > But don't forget the border around
                    the arms.  That is vitally important
                    > in
                    >
                    Scottish Heraldry as it is one of the ways Lord Lion, King of
                    Arms
                    > differentiates one cadet line from another. 
                    And the border is often
                    > charged
                    > with other heraldic
                    devices, as in this case. However, my resolution
                    >
                    isn't good
                    > enough to really tell what the charges
                    are.  This may be too much
                    > accuracy for
                    >
                    your purpose, but accuracy was important when you're about to brain
                    > somebody
                    > with a mace...
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    >
                    From: Cathal <cathal@...>
                    > To:
                    albanach@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Mon, December 20, 2010 2:37:14
                    PM
                    > Subject: Re: [albanach] Correct term confirmation?
                    >

                    >  
                    >>>How about 'on a field of deepest
                    blue, three silver stars'?
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >> ~I like that, clean, states it clearly. I'll use something to
                    that
                    >> effect, my sincere thanks. The stars are silver? They
                    looked white
                    >> from the picture. My sincere thanks for
                    everything!
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Diana Cosby,
                    >
                    > In Heraldry, there are two 'metals'...Or and Argent.
                    >
                    > Depending on the medium they are emblazoned with, they
                    can be
                    > Or= gold/yellow (N.b. the 'yellow' is a true yellow not
                    saffron,
                    > tawny or any of the variants)
                    >
                    Argent=silver/white.
                    >
                    > Generally the blazon is as the
                    metal not the color, while the emblazon
                    > can be either.
                    >

                    > Hence: Azure, three stars of five points two and one,
                    Argent.
                    >
                    > (Blazon-how you describe the heraldry in
                    technical terms)
                    > (Emblazon-how you draw it )
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >



                    --
                    "Ausculta, feminae novae in lacunis
                    recumbens gladii dispensans non fundamentum pro formula administrationis
                    est."
                    -
                    http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/regindex.html


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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