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Re: [albanach] OT Gaelic question

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  • Erin Cabana
    No, it;s actually called the Old Irish Workbook. There is also a book by John Straden and Olson Bejin (spelling might be off as my Prof. has horrid hand
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 28, 2006
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      No, it;s actually called the Old Irish Workbook. There is also a book by John Straden and Olson Bejin (spelling might be off as my Prof. has horrid hand writting) Called Olr Irish Paradigms, that goes over congigation and definite articles..all that fun stuff.

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Sharon L. Krossa <skrossa-ml@...>
      To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, 28 November, 2006 4:55:15 AM
      Subject: Re: [albanach] OT Gaelic question













      At 2:47 AM -0800 11/27/06, Erin Cabana wrote:

      >You can also get Old Irish by Quinn. I believe it was published in

      >the late 60's. It is what we are currently using at the U of

      >Aberdeen for our medieval gaelic class. It's not the best...but it's

      >not that bad either.



      Do you mean Dictionary of the Irish Language,

      which is sometimes referred to as "DIL"? That is:



      Quin, E. G., et al., eds. _Dictionary of the

      Irish Language Based Mainly On Old And Middle

      Irish Materials_. Compact ed. 1983. Reprint,

      Dublin: Royal Irish Academy, 1998. Original

      edition, 1913-1976.

      http://www.amazon. com/exec/ obidos/ASIN/ 0901714291/ ref=nosim/ medievalscotland

      http://www.amazon. co.uk/exec/ obidos/ASIN/ 0901714291/ ref=nosim/ medievalscotla02



      If so, this is actually the best & most

      comprehensive dictionary for pre-1200 Gaelic

      there is currently, despite it's flaws. (For

      those unfamiliar with it, it is, in approach,

      roughly the equivalent of the OED for Early and

      Middle Gaelic -- it not only gives definitions,

      but cites dated examples.) Note, btw, that the

      editor (or at least the last general editor) is

      Quin (with only one <n>, not two).



      Anyway, various resources for Early and Middle

      Gaelic (aka Old and Middle Irish) can be found

      listed at

      http://medievalscot land.org/ scotbiblio/ languages. shtml#gaelic



      The _Etymological Dictionary of Scottish-Gaelic_

      by Alexander MacBain, mentioned by someone else,

      is often useful but not entirely to be trusted

      when it comes to the etymologies -- if one has

      access to DIL, it is normally to be preferred to

      MacBain with regard to Early/Middle Gaelic.



      With regard to the particular question of what

      the Gaelic for "High Queen" would be, note that

      whatever the correct term is, the spelling (and

      possibly even the word) would depend on specific

      period -- whether you want it in Early Gaelic

      (600-900), Middle Gaelic (900-1200), Common

      Gaelic (1200-1700), (modern) Scottish Gaelic, or

      (modern) Irish.



      In any case, while I don't know of any Irish high

      queens, I have found one late medieval Irish text

      that uses a term for "high queen" (in reference

      to the wives of Roman emperors), and that term is

      <airdríghan> (a post-1200 spelling).



      Sharon



      PS BTW, I also did Early Gaelic and Middle Gaelic

      at the University of Aberdeen -- with Colm

      O'Boyle, who is now retired. (Just missed meeting

      with him last week when I was in Aberdeen for my

      graduation, alas!) Hope you're enjoying it as

      much as I did (though I doubt it, as I had the

      luxury of auditing, so got to learn without all

      the stress of worrying about marks ;-)

      --

      Sharon Krossa, Ph.D. -- skrossa-ml@Medieval Scotland. org

      Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more:

      Medieval Scotland - http://www.Medieval Scotland. org/

      The most complete index of reliable web articles about pre-1600 names:

      The Medieval Names Archive - http://www.s- gabriel.org/ names/












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    • ebrowder@widomaker.com
      Thanks to both of you for the heads up on Dictionaries. Recently got a copy of Harry Potter in Irish Gaelic--and also need to get a modern Irish dictionary.
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 28, 2006
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        Thanks to both of you for the heads up on Dictionaries. Recently got a copy of
        Harry Potter in Irish Gaelic--and also need to get a modern Irish dictionary.

        As for a high queen, Peter Tremayne lists one in his latest Sister Fidelma
        novel. Since Tremayne is the pen name of Peter Beresford Ellis who is a
        serious scholar of Irish history and this is an oblique reference and not a
        character in the story, it is probably a result of his research. She is listed
        as Macha of the Red Tresses and said to be 76th in the line of rulers at Tara.
        Take it for what it's worth, or write Peter Tremayne (he has a fan club and
        probably responds to enquiries). He also has an interesting book out
        "Eyewitnesses to Irish History" under his real name and it consists of quotes
        from old texts and his comments on them.

        Tapaidh leibh is beannachd leibh,
        Shel

        Quoting "Sharon L. Krossa" <skrossa-ml@...>:

        > At 2:47 AM -0800 11/27/06, Erin Cabana wrote:
        > >You can also get Old Irish by Quinn. I believe it was published in
        > >the late 60's. It is what we are currently using at the U of
        > >Aberdeen for our medieval gaelic class. It's not the best...but it's
        > >not that bad either.
        >
        > Do you mean Dictionary of the Irish Language,
        > which is sometimes referred to as "DIL"? That is:
        >
        > Quin, E. G., et al., eds. _Dictionary of the
        > Irish Language Based Mainly On Old And Middle
        > Irish Materials_. Compact ed. 1983. Reprint,
        > Dublin: Royal Irish Academy, 1998. Original
        > edition, 1913-1976.
        > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0901714291/ref=nosim/medievalscotland
        >
        http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0901714291/ref=nosim/medievalscotla02
        >
        > If so, this is actually the best & most
        > comprehensive dictionary for pre-1200 Gaelic
        > there is currently, despite it's flaws. (For
        > those unfamiliar with it, it is, in approach,
        > roughly the equivalent of the OED for Early and
        > Middle Gaelic -- it not only gives definitions,
        > but cites dated examples.) Note, btw, that the
        > editor (or at least the last general editor) is
        > Quin (with only one <n>, not two).
        >
        > Anyway, various resources for Early and Middle
        > Gaelic (aka Old and Middle Irish) can be found
        > listed at
        > http://medievalscotland.org/scotbiblio/languages.shtml#gaelic
        >
        > The _Etymological Dictionary of Scottish-Gaelic_
        > by Alexander MacBain, mentioned by someone else,
        > is often useful but not entirely to be trusted
        > when it comes to the etymologies -- if one has
        > access to DIL, it is normally to be preferred to
        > MacBain with regard to Early/Middle Gaelic.
        >
        > With regard to the particular question of what
        > the Gaelic for "High Queen" would be, note that
        > whatever the correct term is, the spelling (and
        > possibly even the word) would depend on specific
        > period -- whether you want it in Early Gaelic
        > (600-900), Middle Gaelic (900-1200), Common
        > Gaelic (1200-1700), (modern) Scottish Gaelic, or
        > (modern) Irish.
        >
        > In any case, while I don't know of any Irish high
        > queens, I have found one late medieval Irish text
        > that uses a term for "high queen" (in reference
        > to the wives of Roman emperors), and that term is
        > <airdríghan> (a post-1200 spelling).
        >
        > Sharon
        >
        > PS BTW, I also did Early Gaelic and Middle Gaelic
        > at the University of Aberdeen -- with Colm
        > O'Boyle, who is now retired. (Just missed meeting
        > with him last week when I was in Aberdeen for my
        > graduation, alas!) Hope you're enjoying it as
        > much as I did (though I doubt it, as I had the
        > luxury of auditing, so got to learn without all
        > the stress of worrying about marks ;-)
        > --
        > Sharon Krossa, Ph.D. -- skrossa-ml@...
        > Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more:
        > Medieval Scotland - http://www.MedievalScotland.org/
        > The most complete index of reliable web articles about pre-1600 names:
        > The Medieval Names Archive - http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/
        >
      • Sharon L. Krossa
        ... Actually, Peter Berresford Ellis is not a serious scholar of Irish history -- he is a journalist turned popular mass market historian and novelist whose
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 28, 2006
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          At 4:43 AM -0500 11/28/06, Unspecified wrote:
          >As for a high queen, Peter Tremayne lists one in his latest Sister Fidelma
          >novel. Since Tremayne is the pen name of Peter Beresford Ellis who is a
          >serious scholar of Irish history

          Actually, Peter Berresford Ellis is not a serious scholar of Irish
          history -- he is a journalist turned popular mass market historian
          and novelist whose scholarship is actually quite poor. He if fond of
          leaping to illogical conclusions (especially if those conclusions
          pander to a New Age audience's prejudices), and his evidence isn't
          always what he claims it to be. His works, whether fiction or
          non-fiction, are not reliable sources of historical information --
          they contain a lot of total nonsense.

          Unfortunately, he does a very good job of making his non-fiction
          works appear to have the trappings of scholarship (footnotes,
          references to primary sources, etc.) without actually being good
          scholarship, and so has fooled a large segment of the general public
          (and even some scholars who specialize in other fields) into
          accepting him as a serious scholar. However, in my experience his
          works are not at all respected by serious scholars who specialize in
          those topics.

          >and this is an oblique reference and not a
          >character in the story, it is probably a result of his research.

          And as you hinted, but I will make even more explicit: even if Ellis
          were not such a poor scholar, it is never safe to assume anything in
          a fictional novel is accurate history -- even the most careful and
          scrupulous historical novelists have to make stuff up. (And
          Ellis/Tremayne is not the most scrupulous...) Such references should
          be treated as possible clues at best, and not accepted as real
          history until confirmed from more reliable sources.

          >She is listed
          >as Macha of the Red Tresses and said to be 76th in the line of rulers at Tara.

          I did find a Macha who appears in a story about how Emain Macha (a
          place name) got its name told in the course of tales about Cu
          Chulainn, but though in the story she claims a kingship, so far I
          haven't found anything calling her a "high queen" (or, indeed, even a
          "queen") or the kingship a "high kingship". However, I haven't done
          an exhaustive examination, just a quick search through the CELT texts
          -- a thorough search would take quite a lot of time since there are
          so many mentions of the place name...

          So, there appears to be some kernel of truth in this particular claim
          by Ellis/Tremayne, but how much I couldn't say without spending more
          time on it than it is worth ;-)

          Sharon
          --
          Sharon Krossa, Ph.D. -- skrossa-ml@...
          Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more:
          Medieval Scotland - http://www.MedievalScotland.org/
          The most complete index of reliable web articles about pre-1600 names:
          The Medieval Names Archive - http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/
        • Muirghein
          ... Well, as I said in the original question, it s for a semi-mythical story :-). What I m trying to do, based on the background of the setting, is find as
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 28, 2006
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            At 08:55 PM 11/27/2006, Sharon wrote:
            >With regard to the particular question of what
            >the Gaelic for "High Queen" would be, note that
            >whatever the correct term is, the spelling (and
            >possibly even the word) would depend on specific
            >period -- whether you want it in Early Gaelic
            >(600-900), Middle Gaelic (900-1200), Common
            >Gaelic (1200-1700), (modern) Scottish Gaelic, or
            >(modern) Irish.
            >
            >In any case, while I don't know of any Irish high
            >queens, I have found one late medieval Irish text
            >that uses a term for "high queen" (in reference
            >to the wives of Roman emperors), and that term is
            ><airdríghan> (a post-1200 spelling).

            Well, as I said in the original question, it's for a semi-mythical
            story :-). What I'm trying to do, based on the background of the
            setting, is find as close to the original Gaelic for the names and
            titles I'm using, and then tweak the spellings so the average reader
            of English will end up pronouncing them mostly right. So for example,
            "Tigernán" is being spelled "Tirnan" so people don't try to pronounce
            it "tigger-nan" or "tiger-nan" or something similarly ugly, etc. I
            may put after-notes in the book explaining the correct names for all
            the people and places I've used.

            From what I've seen, it looks like airdríghan will work better than
            trying to figure out the ban- construction.

            If anyone's *really* curious, I started this project for NaNoWriMo
            (though I got started too late and kept running in to plotholes to
            come anywhere near the target word count), and I put an excerpt up at
            http://www.nanowrimo.org/flashinfo.php?uid=181296 (you have to "turn
            the page" to get to the excerpt). The SCA roots are fairly obvious in
            this bit, but the story will move away from that pretty quickly.

            Thanks to all!

            YiS,
            Baintighearna Muirghein Dhaire Faoilciarach /|\
            Dreiburgen Web Minister http://www.dreiburgen.org
            (any posts to e-mail lists do not reflect official
            opinions unless specifically stated otherwise)
          • ebrowder@widomaker.com
            Sharon, I can find the titlw Contributions to a dictionary of the Irish Language by Quin. Is that the book? Shel
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 29, 2006
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              Sharon,

              I can find the titlw "Contributions to a dictionary of the Irish Language" by
              Quin. Is that the book?

              Shel

              Quoting Erin Cabana <arianhrod2@...>:

              > No, it;s actually called the Old Irish Workbook. There is also a book by John
              > Straden and Olson Bejin (spelling might be off as my Prof. has horrid hand
              > writting) Called Olr Irish Paradigms, that goes over congigation and definite
              > articles..all that fun stuff.
              >
              > ----- Original Message ----
              > From: Sharon L. Krossa <skrossa-ml@...>
              > To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, 28 November, 2006 4:55:15 AM
              > Subject: Re: [albanach] OT Gaelic question
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > At 2:47 AM -0800 11/27/06, Erin Cabana wrote:
              >
              > >You can also get Old Irish by Quinn. I believe it was published in
              >
              > >the late 60's. It is what we are currently using at the U of
              >
              > >Aberdeen for our medieval gaelic class. It's not the best...but it's
              >
              > >not that bad either.
              >
              >
              >
              > Do you mean Dictionary of the Irish Language,
              >
              > which is sometimes referred to as "DIL"? That is:
              >
              >
              >
              > Quin, E. G., et al., eds. _Dictionary of the
              >
              > Irish Language Based Mainly On Old And Middle
              >
              > Irish Materials_. Compact ed. 1983. Reprint,
              >
              > Dublin: Royal Irish Academy, 1998. Original
              >
              > edition, 1913-1976.
              >
              > http://www.amazon. com/exec/ obidos/ASIN/ 0901714291/ ref=nosim/
              > medievalscotland
              >
              > http://www.amazon. co.uk/exec/ obidos/ASIN/ 0901714291/ ref=nosim/
              > medievalscotla02
              >
              >
              >
              > If so, this is actually the best & most
              >
              > comprehensive dictionary for pre-1200 Gaelic
              >
              > there is currently, despite it's flaws. (For
              >
              > those unfamiliar with it, it is, in approach,
              >
              > roughly the equivalent of the OED for Early and
              >
              > Middle Gaelic -- it not only gives definitions,
              >
              > but cites dated examples.) Note, btw, that the
              >
              > editor (or at least the last general editor) is
              >
              > Quin (with only one <n>, not two).
              >
              >
              >
              > Anyway, various resources for Early and Middle
              >
              > Gaelic (aka Old and Middle Irish) can be found
              >
              > listed at
              >
              > http://medievalscot land.org/ scotbiblio/ languages. shtml#gaelic
              >
              >
              >
              > The _Etymological Dictionary of Scottish-Gaelic_
              >
              > by Alexander MacBain, mentioned by someone else,
              >
              > is often useful but not entirely to be trusted
              >
              > when it comes to the etymologies -- if one has
              >
              > access to DIL, it is normally to be preferred to
              >
              > MacBain with regard to Early/Middle Gaelic.
              >
              >
              >
              > With regard to the particular question of what
              >
              > the Gaelic for "High Queen" would be, note that
              >
              > whatever the correct term is, the spelling (and
              >
              > possibly even the word) would depend on specific
              >
              > period -- whether you want it in Early Gaelic
              >
              > (600-900), Middle Gaelic (900-1200), Common
              >
              > Gaelic (1200-1700), (modern) Scottish Gaelic, or
              >
              > (modern) Irish.
              >
              >
              >
              > In any case, while I don't know of any Irish high
              >
              > queens, I have found one late medieval Irish text
              >
              > that uses a term for "high queen" (in reference
              >
              > to the wives of Roman emperors), and that term is
              >
              > <airdríghan> (a post-1200 spelling).
              >
              >
              >
              > Sharon
              >
              >
              >
              > PS BTW, I also did Early Gaelic and Middle Gaelic
              >
              > at the University of Aberdeen -- with Colm
              >
              > O'Boyle, who is now retired. (Just missed meeting
              >
              > with him last week when I was in Aberdeen for my
              >
              > graduation, alas!) Hope you're enjoying it as
              >
              > much as I did (though I doubt it, as I had the
              >
              > luxury of auditing, so got to learn without all
              >
              > the stress of worrying about marks ;-)
              >
              > --
              >
              > Sharon Krossa, Ph.D. -- skrossa-ml@Medieval Scotland. org
              >
              > Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more:
              >
              > Medieval Scotland - http://www.Medieval Scotland. org/
              >
              > The most complete index of reliable web articles about pre-1600 names:
              >
              > The Medieval Names Archive - http://www.s- gabriel.org/ names/
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              > #ygrp-sponsor #nc {
              > background-color:#eee;
              > margin-bottom:20px;
              > padding:0 8px;
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              > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{
              > padding:8px 0;
              > }
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              > font-family:Arial;
              > font-weight:bold;
              > color:#628c2a;
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              > line-height:122%;
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              > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
              > text-decoration:none;
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              >
              >
              > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
            • Sharon L. Krossa
              ... Sort of -- it is a part of it. The Dictionary was originally published in parts (or fasciculi -- 22 of them over the course of some 63 years), some of
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 30, 2006
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                At 6:22 PM -0500 11/29/06, Unspecified wrote:
                >I can find the titlw "Contributions to a dictionary of the Irish Language" by
                >Quin. Is that the book?

                Sort of -- it is a part of it. The Dictionary was originally
                published in parts (or "fasciculi" -- 22 of them over the course of
                some 63 years), some of which were titled "Contributions to a
                Dictionary of the Irish Language". The edition I referenced is the
                complete work in a single volume compact (bring your magnifying
                glass, if you're no longer young ;-) form:

                Quin, E. G., et al., eds. _Dictionary of the Irish Language Based
                Mainly On Old And Middle Irish Materials_. Compact ed. 1983. Reprint,
                Dublin: Royal Irish Academy, 1998. Original edition, 1913-1976.
                http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0901714291/ref=nosim/medievalscotland
                http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0901714291/ref=nosim/medievalscotla02

                To the best of my knowledge, the compact edition is the only edition
                that gathers all the sections together -- otherwise you have to
                collect together the multiple parts yourself, which really isn't all
                that handy (and which can't be practically bound together in a single
                volume -- as said, this is the OED for early medieval Gaelic).

                US Amazon doesn't appear to realize the compact edition is still
                available new, but if you go to the UK Amazon link above, you will
                see it is still available new and (for what it is) quite reasonably
                priced at only 45 UK pounds, which is about $90 at current exchange
                rates. Depending on where you live, you may also be able to find it
                in a local university library.

                Sharon
                --
                Sharon Krossa, Ph.D. <skrossa-ml@...>
                Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more:
                Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/
                Help support Medieval Scotland when you shop online!
                http://MedievalScotland.org/patron/
              • ebrowder@widomaker.com
                Thanks Sharon--and at 60 I will need my magnifying glass :-} Shel ... http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0901714291/ref=nosim/medievalscotla02
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 30, 2006
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                  Thanks Sharon--and at 60 I will need my magnifying glass :-}

                  Shel

                  Quoting "Sharon L. Krossa" <skrossa-ml@...>:

                  > At 6:22 PM -0500 11/29/06, Unspecified wrote:
                  > >I can find the titlw "Contributions to a dictionary of the Irish Language"
                  > by
                  > >Quin. Is that the book?
                  >
                  > Sort of -- it is a part of it. The Dictionary was originally
                  > published in parts (or "fasciculi" -- 22 of them over the course of
                  > some 63 years), some of which were titled "Contributions to a
                  > Dictionary of the Irish Language". The edition I referenced is the
                  > complete work in a single volume compact (bring your magnifying
                  > glass, if you're no longer young ;-) form:
                  >
                  > Quin, E. G., et al., eds. _Dictionary of the Irish Language Based
                  > Mainly On Old And Middle Irish Materials_. Compact ed. 1983. Reprint,
                  > Dublin: Royal Irish Academy, 1998. Original edition, 1913-1976.
                  > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0901714291/ref=nosim/medievalscotland
                  >
                  http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0901714291/ref=nosim/medievalscotla02
                  >
                  > To the best of my knowledge, the compact edition is the only edition
                  > that gathers all the sections together -- otherwise you have to
                  > collect together the multiple parts yourself, which really isn't all
                  > that handy (and which can't be practically bound together in a single
                  > volume -- as said, this is the OED for early medieval Gaelic).
                  >
                  > US Amazon doesn't appear to realize the compact edition is still
                  > available new, but if you go to the UK Amazon link above, you will
                  > see it is still available new and (for what it is) quite reasonably
                  > priced at only 45 UK pounds, which is about $90 at current exchange
                  > rates. Depending on where you live, you may also be able to find it
                  > in a local university library.
                  >
                  > Sharon
                  > --
                  > Sharon Krossa, Ph.D. <skrossa-ml@...>
                  > Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more:
                  > Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/
                  > Help support Medieval Scotland when you shop online!
                  > http://MedievalScotland.org/patron/
                  >
                • Muirghein
                  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6310211.stm ... More on the Beeb. Related story:
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 31, 2007
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                    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6310211.stm

                    >Wild wolves 'good for ecosystems'
                    >Reintroducing wild wolves to the Scottish Highlands would help the
                    >local ecosystem, a study suggests.
                    >
                    >Wolves, which were hunted to extinction in Scotland in the late
                    >1700s, would help control the numbers of red deer, the team from the
                    >UK and Norway said.
                    >
                    >This would aid the re-establishment of plants and birds - currently
                    >hampered by the deer population, they write in Proceedings of the
                    >Royal Society B.

                    More on the Beeb. Related story:
                    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/highlands_and_islands/6317357.stm

                    >The demise of Scotland's wolves
                    >
                    >Blink and you will miss it.
                    >
                    >A carved stone by the side of the A9 near Brora claims to mark the
                    >site where the last wolf in Sutherland was killed by a man called
                    >Polson in 1700.
                    >
                    >The unremarkable grey marker reflects the sad demise of the wild
                    >animal in Scotland.
                    >
                    >According to research done by Glasgow Zoo, now closed, the wolf was
                    >regarded as a common enemy.
                    >
                    >Chieftains and royalty led hunts.
                    >
                    >One attended by Queen Mary in 1563 employed 2,000 Highlanders and
                    >ended in the deaths of five wolves and 360 deer.
                    >
                    >Huge swathes of forest in Perthshire, Lochaber and Argyll were
                    >systematically destroyed to deprive wolves of their habitat.
                    ...
                    >However, many historians believe the very last one was dispatched
                    >near Findhorn, Moray, in 1743 amid an outcry that it had killed two
                    >children.

                    In Service,
                    Baintighearna Muirghein Dhaire Faoilciarach /|\
                    Dreiburgen Web Minister http://www.dreiburgen.org
                    (any posts to e-mail lists do not reflect official
                    opinions unless specifically stated otherwise)
                  • Julie Stackable
                    ... I wonder where they are going to get the wolves from? And who has to catch them and transport them? That sounds like a fun job... I know that most wolf
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 1, 2007
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                      --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, Muirghein <wolfestead@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6310211.stm
                      >
                      > >Wild wolves 'good for ecosystems'
                      > >Reintroducing wild wolves to the Scottish Highlands would help the
                      > >local ecosystem, a study suggests.

                      I wonder where they are going to get the wolves from? And who has to
                      catch them and transport them? That sounds like a fun job...

                      I know that most wolf species mate for life. I hope whomever they get
                      to stock the wolves in Scotland doesn't break up family groups
                      (anybody ever seen or read 'Never Cry Wolf' - great movie, great
                      book).

                      Toujours a vos ordres,
                      Margaret Hepburn
                    • Muirghein
                      ... AFAIK, relocation efforts tend to work with packs, so they don t give the emigres a handicap right off by upsetting their social structure. Saw the movie,
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 1, 2007
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                        At 08:19 AM 2/1/2007, Margaret Hepburn wrote:
                        >--- Muirghein <wolfestead@...> wrote:
                        > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6310211.stm
                        > >
                        > > >Wild wolves 'good for ecosystems'
                        > > >Reintroducing wild wolves to the Scottish Highlands would help the
                        > > >local ecosystem, a study suggests.
                        >
                        >I wonder where they are going to get the wolves from? And who has to
                        >catch them and transport them? That sounds like a fun job...
                        >
                        >I know that most wolf species mate for life. I hope whomever they get
                        >to stock the wolves in Scotland doesn't break up family groups
                        >(anybody ever seen or read 'Never Cry Wolf' - great movie, great
                        >book).

                        AFAIK, relocation efforts tend to work with packs, so they don't give
                        the emigres a handicap right off by upsetting their social structure.

                        Saw the movie, haven't read the book, but one look at my household
                        name (see the email address) should show I'm not exactly neutral on
                        the subject of wolves ;-).

                        YiS,
                        Baintighearna Muirghein Dhaire Faoilciarach /|\
                        Dreiburgen Web Minister http://www.dreiburgen.org
                        (any posts to e-mail lists do not reflect official
                        opinions unless specifically stated otherwise)
                      • rowen_g
                        ... Well, with US wolf-restoration, they were brought in from Canada, but I daresay the Baltic areas still have plenty. The white-tailed or sea-eagle was
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 1, 2007
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                          --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "Julie Stackable" <malvoisine@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, Muirghein <wolfestead@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6310211.stm
                          > >
                          > > >Wild wolves 'good for ecosystems'
                          > > >Reintroducing wild wolves to the Scottish Highlands would help the
                          > > >local ecosystem, a study suggests.
                          >
                          > I wonder where they are going to get the wolves from? And who has to
                          > catch them and transport them? That sounds like a fun job...
                          >
                          > I know that most wolf species mate for life. I hope whomever they get
                          > to stock the wolves in Scotland doesn't break up family groups
                          > (anybody ever seen or read 'Never Cry Wolf' - great movie, great
                          > book).
                          >
                          > Toujours a vos ordres,
                          > Margaret Hepburn
                          >


                          Well, with US wolf-restoration, they were brought in from Canada, but
                          I daresay the Baltic areas still have plenty.

                          The white-tailed or sea-eagle was reintroduced into Scotland starting
                          in 1975. I've been told* that when the chicks were brought over from
                          Norway, an RAF jet was sent for them to minimalize the length of the
                          trip.

                          Rowen Brithwallt

                          (also fond of wolves)


                          * By a Scottish falconer who was working with rehabilitating a
                          zoo-raised sea eagle, and who allowed me to put on a leather sleeve
                          and glove and hold the lure when the eagle was released from the other
                          side of a valley. She landed on my left forearm, and her wings
                          outspanned my arms and wrapped all around my head and shoulders.
                          Wonderful!

                          R
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