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castellans

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  • vkmyth
    In my current novel, I have a castellan running the castle. My question is, would this be a titled noble or a knight? Thank you very much for your time.
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 20, 2006
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      In my current novel, I have a castellan running the castle. My
      question is, would this be a titled noble or a knight? Thank you very
      much for your time.
      Diana
    • James Pratt
      ... That would depend generally on the rank of the person who actually held the fief. Castellans could range from well born but non-noble servants (in the
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 20, 2006
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        > In my current novel, I have a castellan running the castle. My
        > question is, would this be a titled noble or a knight? Thank you very
        > much for your time.

        That would depend generally on the rank of the person who actually held the
        fief.

        Castellans could range from well born but non-noble servants (in the sense
        of tenure rather than social servility)
        all the way up the social scale to landed nobles who held the office as a
        part of their service to an overlord.

        A reasonable rule of thumb is the higher, the fewer hence a Count or Duke
        because of the scope of their individual holdings
        would not likely hold such a generally subordinate office. Barons, however,
        could hold such an office and delegate the actual performance to a
        subordinate or even use it as an augmentation to the management of their own
        lands.

        It could also be given as a reward for an older member of a retinue (read:
        retired knight) to have as a retirement and still use his experience.

        Cathal.
      • Diana Cosby
        James Pratt wrote: That would depend generally on the rank of the person who actually held the fief. ~For my story purposes, it is King Edward I. It s a
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 21, 2006
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          James Pratt wrote: That would depend generally on the rank of the
          person who actually held the fief.

          ~For my story purposes, it is King Edward I. It's a recent capture on
          the Scottish border located in a significant strategical position.

          > <>Castellans could range from well born but non-noble servants (in the
          > sense of tenure rather than social servility)all the way up the social
          > scale to landed nobles who held the office as a part of their service
          > to an overlord. A reasonable rule of thumb is the higher, the fewer
          > hence a Count or Duke because of the scope of their individual
          > holdings would not likely hold such a generally subordinate office.
          > Barons, however, could hold such an office and delegate the actual
          > performance to a subordinate or even use it as an augmentation to the
          > management of their own
          > lands. It could also be given as a reward for an older member of a
          > retinue (read: retired knight) to have as a retirement and still use
          > his experience.

          ~At the moment the knight's position as castellan in service to King
          Edward I. It wouldn't be far fetched for King Edward to grant him the
          title of Baron and the castle for services rendered? Thank you very
          much for your time.
          Diana

          www.dianacosby.com
          Zebra/November 07/Title TBA
          Zebra/Release Date & Title TBA



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • James Pratt
          . ... Given the disdain that Longshanks held for the Scots that would not be out of the question. Consider the pique that placing a lower social strata but
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 21, 2006
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            .
            >
            > ~At the moment the knight's position as castellan in service to King
            > Edward I. It wouldn't be far fetched for King Edward to grant him the
            > title of Baron and the castle for services rendered? Thank you very
            > much for your time.
            > Diana

            Given the disdain that Longshanks held for the Scots that would not be out
            of the question.
            Consider the pique that placing a lower social strata but good
            fighter/commander knight would generate over the dispossesed
            native families as well as show some of Edward's own court factions that a
            reliable sword and not just family ties could make a man.

            We're speaking fiction here and ready-made plot complications are hard to
            find...;-}

            Cathal.
          • Diana Cosby
            ... ~Excellent points. ... ~:) I ll keep him a knight then, as you said, it ll add to the tension. I appreciate your taking the time to reply. Have an
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 21, 2006
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              James Pratt wrote:

              >>~At the moment the knight's position as castellan in service to King
              >>Edward I. It wouldn't be far fetched for King Edward to grant him the
              >>title of Baron and the castle for services rendered? Thank you very
              >>much for your time.
              >>Diana
              >>
              >>
              >
              >Given the disdain that Longshanks held for the Scots that would not be out of the question. Consider the pique that placing a lower social strata but good fighter/commander knight would generate over the dispossesed native families as well as show some of Edward's own court factions that a reliable sword and not just family ties could make a man.
              >
              >
              ~Excellent points.

              >We're speaking fiction here and ready-made plot complications are hard to
              >find...;-}
              >
              >
              ~:) I'll keep him a knight then, as you said, it'll add to the
              tension. I appreciate your taking the time to reply. Have an enjoyable
              weekend.
              Diana

              www.dianacosby.com
              Zebra/November 07/Title TBA
              Zebra/Release Date & Title TBA



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • James Pratt
              ... I will, thank you. It s the Stone Mountain Highland Games weekend here in Atlanta. A nice venue...but some rough areas; why a person could get kilt. They
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 21, 2006
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                > ~:) I'll keep him a knight then, as you said, it'll add to the
                > tension. I appreciate your taking the time to reply. Have an enjoyable
                > weekend.

                I will, thank you. It's the Stone Mountain Highland Games weekend here in
                Atlanta.
                A nice venue...but some rough areas; why a person could get kilt. They even
                let Campbells in...;-}

                Cathal.
              • Diana Cosby
                James Pratt wrote: I will, thank you. It s the Stone Mountain Highland Games weekend here in Atlanta. ~Sounds like a blast. :) ... ~*G* Enjoy! Diana
                Message 7 of 8 , Oct 21, 2006
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                  James Pratt wrote: I will, thank you. It's the Stone Mountain Highland
                  Games weekend here in Atlanta.

                  ~Sounds like a blast. :)

                  >A nice venue...but some rough areas; why a person could get kilt. They even let Campbells in...;-}
                  >
                  >
                  ~*G* Enjoy!
                  Diana

                  www.dianacosby.com
                  Zebra/November 07/Title TBA
                  Zebra/Release Date & Title TBA
                • Sharon L. Krossa
                  ... More important to consider what Edward actually did with the various Scottish castles he captured. (We modern 21st century people can imagine all sorts of
                  Message 8 of 8 , Oct 21, 2006
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                    At 4:53 PM -0400 10/21/06, James Pratt wrote:
                    >.
                    > >
                    > > ~At the moment the knight's position as castellan in service to King
                    > > Edward I. It wouldn't be far fetched for King Edward to grant him the
                    > > title of Baron and the castle for services rendered? Thank you very
                    > > much for your time.
                    > > Diana
                    >
                    >Given the disdain that Longshanks held for the Scots that would not be out
                    >of the question.
                    >Consider the pique that placing a lower social strata but good
                    >fighter/commander knight would generate over the dispossesed
                    >native families as well as show some of Edward's own court factions that a
                    >reliable sword and not just family ties could make a man.

                    More important to consider what Edward actually did with the various
                    Scottish castles he captured. (We modern 21st century people can
                    imagine all sorts of things that never occurred to, never mind were
                    done, by anyone circa 1300.) There is no reason to imagine and guess
                    when the answers are in the historical record.

                    >We're speaking fiction here and ready-made plot complications are hard to
                    >find...;-}

                    Actually, they're easy, if you do the historical research. (Real
                    history is, honestly, so much more interesting and complicated than
                    the same old tired ideas our modern society likes to project onto
                    history...)

                    Sharon
                    --
                    Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@...
                    Need help with technology for your research or teaching? Hire me!
                    http://MedievalScotland.org/hireme/
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