Re: [albanach] Re: Newbie
- Also, given surnames for individuals were still pretty uncommon during the
period you are interested in, a shorter descriptive name such as 'Thomas le
Cotelair' or Thomas the Knifemaker would also be acceptable.
On 8/9/06, Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn <malvoisine@...>
> Hey there, (waves Hi from Blackwater Keep),
> I was going through my books trying to help you out with your name.
> I cannot find Tinnian at all as a given name, only as a modern
> surname. Where did you get it from? That might help me refine the
> De la Hay, de Hay and just Hay are all fine, I cannot find just 'La
> Hay' - it's a difference in article and was not a period form of the
> name. Black gives the following spellings from the 12th & 13th
> century, :
> 'de Haia', 'de Haya', 'de Haye', 'de la Haye'. There is also
> a 'del Hay' from the 14th century in Scotland. If you really want an
> 11th century documentation for it, it's going to need to be Norman,
> rather than Scot, because they don't appear in Scottish records
> until after 1160, when the Norman de la Hays rec'd the first land
> grants there.
> As to 'Cutter', the closest I can get you in Scots is 'Cutler', from
> the occupation of knifemaker. If you can find a 'T' first name you
> like, let's just say Thomas for the sake of argument,
> 'Thomas de Haye le Cotelair' (to use a 13th century spelling) would
> be a for instance that would work.
> As for proper garb from 1066'ish, there's not going to be much
> difference in the Western European nations - clothing is fairly
> generic right then. Haircuts were the biggest difference for men
> right then, with the Normans shearing off the Saxon's flowing locks
> after 1066 as a form of subjugation. Normans were more often than
> not also cleanshaven. If you need some links for clothes from that
> era, let me know.
> Don't know if that's of much help....
> Margaret Hepburn
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org <albanach%40yahoogroups.com>, "Richard
> <tinniancutterlahay@...> wrote:
> > Hello, My name is Tinnian "Cutter" La Hay. I belong to the al-
> > Barranian Vikings (Albuquerque, NM) in the Kingdom of the
> Outlands. I
> > came to this site looking for information to round off my personae
> > get a little more information on my mundane name (Haynes).
> > If anyone can help me please let me know. I don't think I can get
> > with Tinnian for my name and device registration. And I don't
> think La
> > Hay will work either. "Cutter" is a house nickname given because
> > the work that I do for the vikings. Even though I know that the de
> > Hay's came from France and settled in Scotland. My personae is
> > century (around 1066) so I need to figure out the right garb and a
> > proper name. I appreciate the existance of groups like this one so
> > please, any information for research would be greatly appreciated.
> > Thank you very very much.
Ld. Earik MacSkellie
Squire to Sir Galem Lionel Ostwestly
Marshal, Incipient Shire of Foxvale
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- ...there was an upstart little SCAdian who thought he
could buck several hundred years worth of history and
name himself whatever he wanted, from whatever period
time he wanted in Scotland. He was willful and ignorant.
Then he read some books. Did a little research. Talked
with many people. And soon realized that certain people
on a certain yahoo board were right all along. That the
time period he wanted to play in (late 13th into early
14th century), in the place he wanted play (Scottish
Lowlands), was in fact, predominantly Scoto-Norman. That
out the window were pre-conceived notions of kilts, and
leather armor, and bad scottish brogues. He realized his
was a time of chausses and braies, chainmail and surcoats,
and Middle English or French.
Yet, all was not lost to heraldic capitulation. His desired
connection to the Hay name was realized, and he got to keep
his given name too!
I just wanted to come back and thank the wonderful Ladies
and Lords who helped me come to my senses, and started me
on a path to an SCA persona worth developing. If ever I can
help someone else in the same capacity, please let me know.
Lord Louchelan de Hay
formerly "Lochlan de la Hay"
formerly "Lochlan mac Garaidh"
formerly "Lochloinn mac Garaidh"
--- In email@example.com, "Sean" <t_a7808@...> wrote:
> Cutter, I'm so sorry I brought up this whole mac Garaidh thing. I
> seriously thought I had found a solution to tie myself (and
> subsequently you) in some way to the Hay family, and still retain a
> "Gaelic" name. When I saw your original post, it asked the very same
> question I had on my mind even as I ventured into the SCA, and I had
> done "some" research, so I thought I had it all figured out.
> As you've no doubt read, we can't have it both ways when it comes to
> SCA registration. Be Gaelic, you just can't be family Hay, because it
> doesn't fit the time and location, and you'll be called out for it.
> From what I've read, you've already figured that out. Good Luck.
> I've had to rethink things myself at this end too, and frankly I'm not
> sure what I'm going to do, but I do know this; this is the right place
> with the right people to figure it out, if my persona is to remain
> Scottish and/or Hay, and be registered.
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Richard Haynes \(Cutter\)"
> <tinniancutterlahay@> wrote:
> > Margaret & Muirghein,
> > Ladies, thank you very much for the help you are offering. I
> really appreciate it. I will take whatever research that I can get my
> paws on. I love wearing the Feileadh Mhor myself, but alas, it's not
> my period. Although I think I will still wear it just to say nyaaaaa
> to those who want to argue. I'm also the token Scotsman on board a
> Viking longboat so I can also wear their garb as well.
> > I found this website that looks promising. They have info on the
> > http://www.regia.org/main.htm
> > Well, cheers, and have a pint for me.
> > Richard Haynes
> > "Cutter" de la Hay
> > "Ho, Haha, Guard, Turn, Perry, Dodge, Spin, Ha, Thrust!"
> > ---------------------------------
> > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone
> call rates.
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]