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  • Morgiana Cheyney
    Hello everyone! I just joined the list and thought I would post a little hello, and introduce myself. My name is Morgan Cheyney, known to most as Morgiana or
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 1, 2006
      Hello everyone! I just joined the list and thought I would post a
      little hello, and introduce myself. My name is Morgan Cheyney, known
      to most as Morgiana or Morgi. I have been in the SCA for about 16
      years now, and live in the Barony of Caerthe in the proud kingdom of
      the Outlands! I am a mid 14th Century Scot and have decided (finally)
      that the area around Inverness is my home (before moving to the
      Outlands of course). I am interested in costuming, embroidery,
      herbalism, archery and fencing. I really hope to learn alot from this
      group. I already have just from browsing over the past messages.

      Right now my main concern is my name. It's registered as Morgan
      Cheyney but I've always been Morgiana. I know it's not correct for the
      period. (The spelling is, but the construction isn't.) If anyone has
      any suggestions on how to keep the Morgiana (or Morgan), and the
      Cheyney, but in a more period appropriate manner, I would appreciate it.

      Thank you in advance.
      Morgi
    • Muirghein
      ... Hey, another 14th c. Scot who goes by Morgan :-). My originally registered name was Morgan O Daire, but as I became more knowledgeable as a herald I
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 1, 2006
        At 01:44 PM 3/1/2006, you wrote:
        >Hello everyone! I just joined the list and thought I would post a
        >little hello, and introduce myself. My name is Morgan Cheyney, known
        >to most as Morgiana or Morgi. I have been in the SCA for about 16
        >years now, and live in the Barony of Caerthe in the proud kingdom of
        >the Outlands! I am a mid 14th Century Scot and have decided (finally)
        >that the area around Inverness is my home (before moving to the
        >Outlands of course). I am interested in costuming, embroidery,
        >herbalism, archery and fencing. I really hope to learn alot from this
        >group. I already have just from browsing over the past messages.
        >
        >Right now my main concern is my name. It's registered as Morgan
        >Cheyney but I've always been Morgiana. I know it's not correct for the
        >period. (The spelling is, but the construction isn't.) If anyone has
        >any suggestions on how to keep the Morgiana (or Morgan), and the
        >Cheyney, but in a more period appropriate manner, I would appreciate it.
        >
        >Thank you in advance.
        >Morgi

        Hey, another 14th c. Scot who goes by "Morgan" :-).

        My originally registered name was Morgan O'Daire, but as I became
        more knowledgeable as a herald I realized that name was more
        appropriate for a late-period Welsh/Irish man than an early 14th c.
        Highland woman, so I looked into changing it. The result is in the
        sig (just "Muirghein Dhaire" -- the rest is title and clan affiliation).

        There's a lot of info on Morgan variants on the Problem Names Project
        -- http://www.medievalscotland.org/problem/names/morgan.shtml

        I know that "Muirghein" isn't properly pronounced "Morgan," but I
        don't expect we Southern Californian speakers of English to get that
        "ghy" sound right so I let it slide :-).

        Hey, Sharon, thinking back on how hard it was for you and Tangwystyl
        to describe in print how to properly pronounce my name, I'm wondering
        if small sound files on some of these pages might not help people
        with some of these difficult pronunciations. Just a thought *G*.

        In Service to Many Dreams,
        Baintighearna Muirghein Dhaire Faoilciarach /|\
        Dreiburgen Web Minister http://www.dreiburgen.org
        (any posts to e-mail lists do not reflect official
        opinions unless specifically stated otherwise)
      • Sharon L. Krossa
        Greetings, and welcome! ... To the best of my knowledge, is not a period name, Scottish or otherwise. is a fine period name, if you (or
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 1, 2006
          Greetings, and welcome!

          At 9:44 PM +0000 3/1/06, Morgiana Cheyney wrote:
          >the Outlands! I am a mid 14th Century Scot and have decided (finally)
          >that the area around Inverness is my home (before moving to the
          ...
          >Right now my main concern is my name. It's registered as Morgan
          >Cheyney but I've always been Morgiana. I know it's not correct for the
          >period. (The spelling is, but the construction isn't.) If anyone has
          >any suggestions on how to keep the Morgiana (or Morgan), and the
          >Cheyney, but in a more period appropriate manner, I would appreciate it.

          To the best of my knowledge, <Morgiana> is not a period name,
          Scottish or otherwise.

          <Morgan> is a fine period name, if you (or your persona) is male. It
          was not used by women until quite modern times.

          For more information on this and related names, see "Concerning the
          Names Morgan, Morgana, Morgaine, Muirghein, Morrigan, and the Like"
          at <http://MedievalScotland.org/problem/names/morgan.shtml>. (I don't
          recall whether this article discusses the Scottish use of Morgan, but
          if not the short form is that Welsh/Cumbric Morgan was borrowed into
          Gaelic, and then it seems was in turn borrowed again into Scots or
          else borrowed directly from Cumbric to Old English and so later
          Scots, so it is plausible both as a Gaelic masculine name and a
          Lowland Scots masculine name.)

          In the SCA you are free to have a persona whose gender does not match
          your real world gender, and you are also free to simply use a
          non-medieval name -- it is your choice how historically authentic you
          want to be. Unfortunately, given your name interests, you are going
          to have make some decisions about what is more important to you, as
          you won't be able to have these names *and* have a historically
          authentic name *and* have a female name. Something will have to be
          let go, but you're the only one who can decide what you're willing to
          live without.

          To add to the decisions you need to make, you should decide which
          Scottish culture your persona belongs to. Is he/she a Gael, or a
          Lowlander? You say above you have settled on the area around
          Inverness -- depending on where exactly you have placed yourself,
          this could point to a Gaelic persona or a Lowland one. (Some areas
          near Inverness, and inverness itself, were wholly or primarily
          Lowland in culture; other areas near Inverness were wholly or
          primarily Gaelic in culture.)

          <Cheyney> is, of course, a Lowland surname. 14th century forms of it
          listed in Black s.n. CHEYNE include

          de Chen, 1321 (Latin form)
          de Chen, 1305 (Latin or ANFrench form)

          Unfortunately, Black doesn't have a lot of examples, especially not
          for the 14th century.

          In this period it appears to be functioning as an inherited family
          byname (even though inherited family bynames were not yet the norm
          yet), and so rather more strongly than other 14th century bynames
          indicates a relationship to a particular noble family.

          So, if you want to have a Gaelic persona, this byname is not a very
          good choice, as the bytname and apparently the family who bore it in
          the 14th century were not Gaels. However, if you want to be a
          Lowlander, especially a Lowlander related to the noble Cheyne family,
          it is a good choice.

          Depending on which direction you want to go, I'd be happy to try to
          help you work on a 14th century Scottish name, either Gaelic or
          Lowland. Also, there are lots of resources for Scottish names, Gaelic
          and Lowland, at my web site at
          <http://MedievalScotland.org/scotnames/>.

          Sharon, ska Effric
          --
          Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@...
          Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more:
          Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/
        • Morgiana Cheyney
          Thank you all so very much for your valuable (and helpful) information. I have to admit, that I am very attached to the nickname Morgi (everyone calls me
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 3, 2006
            Thank you all so very much for your valuable (and helpful)
            information. I have to admit, that I am very attached to the
            nickname Morgi (everyone calls me that, even in mundane settings). I
            started out with Morgiana, because I like the way it sounds. I found
            documentation for the use of the name in historical fiction. (It's
            the name of the slave girl that hid in a basket in the Arabian
            Knights), but the college of heralds said it wasn't documentable as
            being in use as a name, especially in Scotland. They recomended
            Morgan, which I went with because after 16 years I'm never going to
            get people to call me anything but Morgi. Thus my delima. However,
            I'm willing to be flexible (to a point) to be more period.

            Cheyeny (or Chaney mundanely) is my own name. I'm attached to it,
            but not necessarily as a surname. I know the family is a Sept of the
            Clan Sutherland. Perhaps I could use the name to show clan
            affiliation?

            Sorry for rambling so much. Thank you all again for your help. I
            welcome any other thoughts/ideas/suggestions either on or off list.

            Yours,
            Morgi
          • Muirghein
            ... Might I suggest: The Tale of Tangwystyl or It s Your Name and You Can Change If You Want To
            Message 5 of 5 , Mar 3, 2006
              At 10:41 AM 3/3/2006, you wrote:
              >...They recomended
              >Morgan, which I went with because after 16 years I'm never going to
              >get people to call me anything but Morgi. Thus my delima.

              Might I suggest:

              The Tale of Tangwystyl
              or It's Your Name and You Can Change If You Want To
              http://www.heatherrosejones.com/simplearticles/taleoftangwystyl.html

              As to the nickname, I don't see why you couldn't register something
              close enough to justify folks calling you Morgi even if that's not
              what's registered. Most folks call me "Morgan," even though that's
              not how "Muirghein" is pronounced. I could see "Morgi" being a
              nickname for many names in the Morgan-ish family :-).

              YiS,
              Baintighearna Muirghein Dhaire Faoilciarach /|\
              Dreiburgen Web Minister http://www.dreiburgen.org
              (any posts to e-mail lists do not reflect official
              opinions unless specifically stated otherwise)
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