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[albanach] Re: Medieval Scottish Hats

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  • Sharon L. Krossa
    ... No, he d have a plaid wrapped around him that wasn t belted around his waist, and so at least as (if not more) readily available to be pulled up over his
    Message 1 of 16 , Sep 24, 2005
      At 10:24 PM +0000 9/23/05, Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn wrote:
      >Nothing wrong with that thought - he was just asking specifically for
      >15th century & so wouldn't have a kilt yet handy to flip up (grin).

      No, he'd have a plaid wrapped around him that wasn't belted around
      his waist, and so at least as (if not more) readily available to be
      pulled up over his head.

      Given the significant differences between Highland and Lowland
      clothing in the 15th century, it is not safe to assume that
      Highlanders wore all (or even any) of the same kind of headgear that
      Lowlanders did -- at least not without some evidence to back up the
      speculation.

      Unfortunately, at the moment I don't really have the time to look
      into the question of Highland headgear, or else I'd write more...
      However, a search of the archives might pull up past discussions
      which may (or may not) have relevant information.

      Affrick
      --
      Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@...
      Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more:
      Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/
    • John McConnell
      Would a plain tam be okay? Or one of the robin hood type of hats? John ... From: Sharon L. Krossa To: albanach@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 24,
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 24, 2005
        Would a plain tam be okay? Or one of the "robin hood" type of hats?

        John

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Sharon L. Krossa
        To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 7:36 AM
        Subject: [albanach] Re: Medieval Scottish Hats


        At 10:24 PM +0000 9/23/05, Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn wrote:
        >Nothing wrong with that thought - he was just asking specifically for
        >15th century & so wouldn't have a kilt yet handy to flip up (grin).

        No, he'd have a plaid wrapped around him that wasn't belted around
        his waist, and so at least as (if not more) readily available to be
        pulled up over his head.

        Given the significant differences between Highland and Lowland
        clothing in the 15th century, it is not safe to assume that
        Highlanders wore all (or even any) of the same kind of headgear that
        Lowlanders did -- at least not without some evidence to back up the
        speculation.

        Unfortunately, at the moment I don't really have the time to look
        into the question of Highland headgear, or else I'd write more...
        However, a search of the archives might pull up past discussions
        which may (or may not) have relevant information.

        Affrick
        --
        Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@...
        Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more:
        Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/


        This is Albanach, a group devoted to the study and re-enactment of
        Scotland c. 503-1603 AD.



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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn
        It depends on what you mean by tam. If you just mean a sort of soft sided beret, then you are fine. But tam appears to be an 18th-18th century usage and
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 25, 2005
          It depends on what you mean by tam. If you just mean a sort of soft
          sided beret, then you are fine. But tam appears to be an 18th-18th
          century usage and doesn't only mean hat. A quick perusal of the
          dictionary of the Scots language gives a few references. 'Bonnet'
          would seem to be the word of choice and it clearly refers to a type
          of hat, not a coif. There is mention of a carbouille hat (boiled
          leather, obviously some sort of armor) and also a knapscull bonnet.
          Knapscull refers to something covering the head closely, as a
          skullcap and refers to a sort of metal skullcap worn under a regular
          cloth cap or coif, meant to be defensive. There are a number of 15th
          century references for men's bonnets, of red, black and blue, are
          specifically mentioned. But, again, literary references do not
          necessarily refer to Highlanders, but Lowlanders and it's hard to
          know. I'll keep looking for a good, reliable Highland reference for
          you.
          cheers,
          Margaret Hepburn

          --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "John McConnell" <mccobalt@c...>
          wrote:
          > Would a plain tam be okay? Or one of the "robin hood" type of
          hats?
          >
          > John
        • Allen Hansen
          Surely not for daily usage. Perhaps you d use the cloak as a hood. That seems the most likely and practicle option. ... headgear
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 25, 2005
            Surely not for daily usage. Perhaps you'd use the cloak as a hood. That
            seems the most likely and practicle option.
            > From what I've read, helmets is about all you get for highland
            headgear
            > before the 16th-sh century. Now, I wonder if you go back far enough,
            > what the prevelance of hats was during the viking era on the western
            > seaboard....
            >
            > -Cainnech Ruad mcGuairi
          • John McConnell
            Margaret, Thanks so much for your guidence. What about these sorts of berets? http://store.yahoo.com/campingsurvival/woolmonber.html
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 25, 2005
              Margaret,

              Thanks so much for your guidence. What about these sorts of berets?

              http://store.yahoo.com/campingsurvival/woolmonber.html

              http://johnhelmer.com/prod.itml/icOid/12


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn
              To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 2:38 PM
              Subject: [albanach] Re: Medieval Scottish Hats


              It depends on what you mean by tam. If you just mean a sort of soft
              sided beret, then you are fine. But tam appears to be an 18th-18th
              century usage and doesn't only mean hat. A quick perusal of the
              dictionary of the Scots language gives a few references. 'Bonnet'
              would seem to be the word of choice and it clearly refers to a type
              of hat, not a coif. There is mention of a carbouille hat (boiled
              leather, obviously some sort of armor) and also a knapscull bonnet.
              Knapscull refers to something covering the head closely, as a
              skullcap and refers to a sort of metal skullcap worn under a regular
              cloth cap or coif, meant to be defensive. There are a number of 15th
              century references for men's bonnets, of red, black and blue, are
              specifically mentioned. But, again, literary references do not
              necessarily refer to Highlanders, but Lowlanders and it's hard to
              know. I'll keep looking for a good, reliable Highland reference for
              you.
              cheers,
              Margaret Hepburn

              --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "John McConnell" <mccobalt@c...>
              wrote:
              > Would a plain tam be okay? Or one of the "robin hood" type of
              hats?
              >
              > John





              This is Albanach, a group devoted to the study and re-enactment of
              Scotland c. 503-1603 AD.



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              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

              a.. Visit your group "albanach" on the web.

              b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • John McConnell
              This was the other one I had originally looked at... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5617971135&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 25, 2005
                This was the other one I had originally looked at...

                http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5617971135&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

                Thanks!

                John

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn
                To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 2:38 PM
                Subject: [albanach] Re: Medieval Scottish Hats


                It depends on what you mean by tam. If you just mean a sort of soft
                sided beret, then you are fine. But tam appears to be an 18th-18th
                century usage and doesn't only mean hat. A quick perusal of the
                dictionary of the Scots language gives a few references. 'Bonnet'
                would seem to be the word of choice and it clearly refers to a type
                of hat, not a coif. There is mention of a carbouille hat (boiled
                leather, obviously some sort of armor) and also a knapscull bonnet.
                Knapscull refers to something covering the head closely, as a
                skullcap and refers to a sort of metal skullcap worn under a regular
                cloth cap or coif, meant to be defensive. There are a number of 15th
                century references for men's bonnets, of red, black and blue, are
                specifically mentioned. But, again, literary references do not
                necessarily refer to Highlanders, but Lowlanders and it's hard to
                know. I'll keep looking for a good, reliable Highland reference for
                you.
                cheers,
                Margaret Hepburn

                --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "John McConnell" <mccobalt@c...>
                wrote:
                > Would a plain tam be okay? Or one of the "robin hood" type of
                hats?
                >
                > John





                This is Albanach, a group devoted to the study and re-enactment of
                Scotland c. 503-1603 AD.



                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

                a.. Visit your group "albanach" on the web.

                b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                albanach-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Kevin Myers
                Well, what I meant was that the only headgear I ve come across in depictions of highlanders from before the 16th century show helmets, otherwise the head is
                Message 7 of 16 , Sep 26, 2005
                  Well, what I meant was that the only headgear I've come across in
                  depictions of highlanders from before the 16th century show helmets,
                  otherwise the head is uncovered or they are wearing their brat or plaid
                  over their head. So, yeah, not for daily usage (the helmet, that is).

                  -Cainnech
                  --- Allen Hansen <kapudanpasha@...> wrote:

                  > Surely not for daily usage. Perhaps you'd use the cloak as a hood.
                  > That
                  > seems the most likely and practicle option.
                  > > From what I've read, helmets is about all you get for highland
                  > headgear
                  > > before the 16th-sh century. Now, I wonder if you go back far
                  > enough,
                  > > what the prevelance of hats was during the viking era on the
                  > western
                  > > seaboard....
                  > >
                  > > -Cainnech Ruad mcGuairi
                  >





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