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Re: [albanach] Re: Medieval Scottish Hats

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  • Kevin Myers
    Before the kilt was the brat/plaid, and that too can be worn over the head in inclement weather. A sunny day at Pennsic is inclement IMHO therefore I wear my
    Message 1 of 16 , Sep 23, 2005
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      Before the kilt was the brat/plaid, and that too can be worn over the
      head in inclement weather. A sunny day at Pennsic is inclement IMHO
      therefore I wear my brat over my head frequently. My camp-mates call it
      "Pictish camoflage".

      -Cainnech Ruad

      --- "Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn" <malvoisine@...>
      wrote:

      > Nothing wrong with that thought - he was just asking specifically for
      >
      > 15th century & so wouldn't have a kilt yet handy to flip up (grin).
      > P'raps he wanted to be a fashinable Hielander....
      > Cheers,
      > Margaret Hepburn
      >

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    • Sharon L. Krossa
      ... No, he d have a plaid wrapped around him that wasn t belted around his waist, and so at least as (if not more) readily available to be pulled up over his
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 24, 2005
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        At 10:24 PM +0000 9/23/05, Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn wrote:
        >Nothing wrong with that thought - he was just asking specifically for
        >15th century & so wouldn't have a kilt yet handy to flip up (grin).

        No, he'd have a plaid wrapped around him that wasn't belted around
        his waist, and so at least as (if not more) readily available to be
        pulled up over his head.

        Given the significant differences between Highland and Lowland
        clothing in the 15th century, it is not safe to assume that
        Highlanders wore all (or even any) of the same kind of headgear that
        Lowlanders did -- at least not without some evidence to back up the
        speculation.

        Unfortunately, at the moment I don't really have the time to look
        into the question of Highland headgear, or else I'd write more...
        However, a search of the archives might pull up past discussions
        which may (or may not) have relevant information.

        Affrick
        --
        Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@...
        Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more:
        Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/
      • John McConnell
        Would a plain tam be okay? Or one of the robin hood type of hats? John ... From: Sharon L. Krossa To: albanach@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 24,
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 24, 2005
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          Would a plain tam be okay? Or one of the "robin hood" type of hats?

          John

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Sharon L. Krossa
          To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 7:36 AM
          Subject: [albanach] Re: Medieval Scottish Hats


          At 10:24 PM +0000 9/23/05, Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn wrote:
          >Nothing wrong with that thought - he was just asking specifically for
          >15th century & so wouldn't have a kilt yet handy to flip up (grin).

          No, he'd have a plaid wrapped around him that wasn't belted around
          his waist, and so at least as (if not more) readily available to be
          pulled up over his head.

          Given the significant differences between Highland and Lowland
          clothing in the 15th century, it is not safe to assume that
          Highlanders wore all (or even any) of the same kind of headgear that
          Lowlanders did -- at least not without some evidence to back up the
          speculation.

          Unfortunately, at the moment I don't really have the time to look
          into the question of Highland headgear, or else I'd write more...
          However, a search of the archives might pull up past discussions
          which may (or may not) have relevant information.

          Affrick
          --
          Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@...
          Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more:
          Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/


          This is Albanach, a group devoted to the study and re-enactment of
          Scotland c. 503-1603 AD.



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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn
          It depends on what you mean by tam. If you just mean a sort of soft sided beret, then you are fine. But tam appears to be an 18th-18th century usage and
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 25, 2005
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            It depends on what you mean by tam. If you just mean a sort of soft
            sided beret, then you are fine. But tam appears to be an 18th-18th
            century usage and doesn't only mean hat. A quick perusal of the
            dictionary of the Scots language gives a few references. 'Bonnet'
            would seem to be the word of choice and it clearly refers to a type
            of hat, not a coif. There is mention of a carbouille hat (boiled
            leather, obviously some sort of armor) and also a knapscull bonnet.
            Knapscull refers to something covering the head closely, as a
            skullcap and refers to a sort of metal skullcap worn under a regular
            cloth cap or coif, meant to be defensive. There are a number of 15th
            century references for men's bonnets, of red, black and blue, are
            specifically mentioned. But, again, literary references do not
            necessarily refer to Highlanders, but Lowlanders and it's hard to
            know. I'll keep looking for a good, reliable Highland reference for
            you.
            cheers,
            Margaret Hepburn

            --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "John McConnell" <mccobalt@c...>
            wrote:
            > Would a plain tam be okay? Or one of the "robin hood" type of
            hats?
            >
            > John
          • Allen Hansen
            Surely not for daily usage. Perhaps you d use the cloak as a hood. That seems the most likely and practicle option. ... headgear
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 25, 2005
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              Surely not for daily usage. Perhaps you'd use the cloak as a hood. That
              seems the most likely and practicle option.
              > From what I've read, helmets is about all you get for highland
              headgear
              > before the 16th-sh century. Now, I wonder if you go back far enough,
              > what the prevelance of hats was during the viking era on the western
              > seaboard....
              >
              > -Cainnech Ruad mcGuairi
            • John McConnell
              Margaret, Thanks so much for your guidence. What about these sorts of berets? http://store.yahoo.com/campingsurvival/woolmonber.html
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 25, 2005
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                Margaret,

                Thanks so much for your guidence. What about these sorts of berets?

                http://store.yahoo.com/campingsurvival/woolmonber.html

                http://johnhelmer.com/prod.itml/icOid/12


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn
                To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 2:38 PM
                Subject: [albanach] Re: Medieval Scottish Hats


                It depends on what you mean by tam. If you just mean a sort of soft
                sided beret, then you are fine. But tam appears to be an 18th-18th
                century usage and doesn't only mean hat. A quick perusal of the
                dictionary of the Scots language gives a few references. 'Bonnet'
                would seem to be the word of choice and it clearly refers to a type
                of hat, not a coif. There is mention of a carbouille hat (boiled
                leather, obviously some sort of armor) and also a knapscull bonnet.
                Knapscull refers to something covering the head closely, as a
                skullcap and refers to a sort of metal skullcap worn under a regular
                cloth cap or coif, meant to be defensive. There are a number of 15th
                century references for men's bonnets, of red, black and blue, are
                specifically mentioned. But, again, literary references do not
                necessarily refer to Highlanders, but Lowlanders and it's hard to
                know. I'll keep looking for a good, reliable Highland reference for
                you.
                cheers,
                Margaret Hepburn

                --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "John McConnell" <mccobalt@c...>
                wrote:
                > Would a plain tam be okay? Or one of the "robin hood" type of
                hats?
                >
                > John





                This is Albanach, a group devoted to the study and re-enactment of
                Scotland c. 503-1603 AD.



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                a.. Visit your group "albanach" on the web.

                b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • John McConnell
                This was the other one I had originally looked at... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5617971135&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
                Message 7 of 16 , Sep 25, 2005
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                  This was the other one I had originally looked at...

                  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5617971135&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

                  Thanks!

                  John

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn
                  To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 2:38 PM
                  Subject: [albanach] Re: Medieval Scottish Hats


                  It depends on what you mean by tam. If you just mean a sort of soft
                  sided beret, then you are fine. But tam appears to be an 18th-18th
                  century usage and doesn't only mean hat. A quick perusal of the
                  dictionary of the Scots language gives a few references. 'Bonnet'
                  would seem to be the word of choice and it clearly refers to a type
                  of hat, not a coif. There is mention of a carbouille hat (boiled
                  leather, obviously some sort of armor) and also a knapscull bonnet.
                  Knapscull refers to something covering the head closely, as a
                  skullcap and refers to a sort of metal skullcap worn under a regular
                  cloth cap or coif, meant to be defensive. There are a number of 15th
                  century references for men's bonnets, of red, black and blue, are
                  specifically mentioned. But, again, literary references do not
                  necessarily refer to Highlanders, but Lowlanders and it's hard to
                  know. I'll keep looking for a good, reliable Highland reference for
                  you.
                  cheers,
                  Margaret Hepburn

                  --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "John McConnell" <mccobalt@c...>
                  wrote:
                  > Would a plain tam be okay? Or one of the "robin hood" type of
                  hats?
                  >
                  > John





                  This is Albanach, a group devoted to the study and re-enactment of
                  Scotland c. 503-1603 AD.



                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

                  a.. Visit your group "albanach" on the web.

                  b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  albanach-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                  c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Kevin Myers
                  Well, what I meant was that the only headgear I ve come across in depictions of highlanders from before the 16th century show helmets, otherwise the head is
                  Message 8 of 16 , Sep 26, 2005
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                    Well, what I meant was that the only headgear I've come across in
                    depictions of highlanders from before the 16th century show helmets,
                    otherwise the head is uncovered or they are wearing their brat or plaid
                    over their head. So, yeah, not for daily usage (the helmet, that is).

                    -Cainnech
                    --- Allen Hansen <kapudanpasha@...> wrote:

                    > Surely not for daily usage. Perhaps you'd use the cloak as a hood.
                    > That
                    > seems the most likely and practicle option.
                    > > From what I've read, helmets is about all you get for highland
                    > headgear
                    > > before the 16th-sh century. Now, I wonder if you go back far
                    > enough,
                    > > what the prevelance of hats was during the viking era on the
                    > western
                    > > seaboard....
                    > >
                    > > -Cainnech Ruad mcGuairi
                    >





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