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RE: [albanach] Re: Grainne's father & grandfather - have to correct myself

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  • Matthew A. C. Newsome
    Nope, I m not at Pennsic, but I m not about to jump down anyone s throat for discussing Irish naming practices, either. ;-) Certainly on topic enough for my
    Message 1 of 22 , Aug 23, 2004
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      Nope, I'm not at Pennsic, but I'm not about to jump down anyone's throat
      for discussing Irish naming practices, either. ;-) Certainly on topic
      enough for my book!
      Aye,
      Eogan

      Get the new book, Early Highland Dress!
      Available now at <http://albanach.org> http://albanach.org

      If I find better info for Grainne I will post it. This thread might
      get kicked off the list though since it's not technically a
      discussion of anything Scottish - but, if the moderator is at
      Pennsic, maybe we can run amok for a couple of days.

      Toujours a vos ordres,
      Margaret Hepburn





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Victoria
      Hi, I m new here. I just got back from my first Pennsic and I m so excited. Well, I need to work on a persona. My family was from Glasgow so I think I ll
      Message 2 of 22 , Aug 24, 2004
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        Hi, I'm new here. I just got back from my first Pennsic and I'm so
        excited. Well, I need to work on a persona. My family was from
        Glasgow so I think I'll stick to that area. Any suggestions?

        Victoria
      • Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn
        Dear Victoria, Welcome to the list! My persona, Margaret Hepburn, resides on a farm in the hills outside of Ardrossan, which is SW of Glasgow. So, a lot of the
        Message 3 of 22 , Aug 24, 2004
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          Dear Victoria,
          Welcome to the list! My persona, Margaret Hepburn, resides on a farm
          in the hills outside of Ardrossan, which is SW of Glasgow. So, a lot
          of the research I have done centers around that area & Ayrshire in
          general. Are you interested in a particular era? I am rather late,
          1570's, but would be happy to point you in many directions, as would
          many on the list...

          Glasgow was much smaller than Edinburgh throughout the SCA period
          and because the Clyde was not dredged enough for shipping was not
          really a port town of any moment until the 18th century. This part
          of Scotland was inhabited by various tribes early on and you will
          see mention of Strathclyde 'Celts' and the tribe of the Damnonii.
          There are many archeological sites - beginning mostly with neolithic
          down through Late Bronze Age burials. There were six inhabited sites
          in this area that the Romans wrote of (either settlements or forts
          or both). Romans garrisoned the area around 80 C.E., so depending on
          how early you want your persona to be, you can start at
          Roman 'squatter' (grins), they did intermarry with the tribes....
          Romans troops abandoned the Antonine Wall in this area in 163 C.E.
          What follows is a sort of mini Dark Ages for this area - it was
          still settled, there were still tribes & settlements & forts, but it
          was a rough outpost, having been abandoned by official Romans.
          Glasgow (which means 'green hollow' or glas cau as recorded in land
          given by the then King of Stratchclyde, Rydderch Hael, to form the
          original monastery honoring St. Kentigern - this is the beginning of
          this area being known as Glasgow, 6/7th century) does get a
          bishopric of sorts in the 6th/7th century (see land donation just
          before by Strathclyde king), so it was largely Christian by then.
          True record keeping begins again with the medieval see of Glasgow
          between 1124 and 1153. A cathedral gets built... So, between the
          12th century and the 16th century, you get a cathedral, a
          university, a modest monastic community (Blackfriars and Greyfriars)-
          a bishop builds a castle in the 13th century, etc. etc. Very few
          medieval to later period buildings remain in Glasgow, unfortunately
          due to late Georgians, Victorians & Edwardians who viciously "tidied
          up" putting in LOTS of row housing etc.

          Anyway, much more & I'll bore you to death. Just giving you a
          general idea of what you can choose from persona-wise. Name wise &
          family wise in this area there are Cunninghams, Montgomeries,
          Maxwells, Hamiltons, Eglintons, Stewarts, Knoxes (Knoxen?),
          Kilpatricks, Stirlings, Douglases & Lockharts (and many others,
          these are some prominent families). Many of these families will
          start as Norman 'carpetbaggers' in the late 11th early 12th century
          sent to 'civilise' the northern frontier, but some of the families
          will have earlier native ties. Just as in Edinburgh, wealthy
          families from here will also be sending their sons to France & other
          countries on the continent, so there will be ties to & imports from
          there.

          Hope that helps - again, welcome to the list & good luck
          constructing a persona....

          Toujours a vos ordres,
          Margaret Hepburn (who gets here by marrying a Montgumery...)

          --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, Victoria <kaphagirl@e...> wrote:
          > Hi, I'm new here. I just got back from my first Pennsic and I'm so
          > excited. Well, I need to work on a persona. My family was from
          > Glasgow so I think I'll stick to that area. Any suggestions?
          >
          > Victoria
        • Robert Kirby
          In the past a couple of folks, Margaret Hepburn and Effrick as I recall, have mentioned researching Scottish wedding rites. My present interest is whether
          Message 4 of 22 , Mar 31, 2005
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            In the past a couple of folks, Margaret Hepburn and Effrick as I recall, have
            mentioned researching Scottish wedding rites. My present interest is whether
            anyone has references on how Britons, most especially Aberdonians, commemorated
            wedding anniversaries. I'm particularly interested in the 16c. Assuming that
            they observed them in any way, that is. Thanks in advance,
            Malcolm Drum
          • Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn
            To be perfectly honest, I ve never seen anything on anniversaries, not even for other 16th century cultures either. I *think* this is a fairly modern concept,
            Message 5 of 22 , Mar 31, 2005
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              To be perfectly honest, I've never seen anything on anniversaries,
              not even for other 16th century cultures either. I *think* this is a
              fairly modern concept, like big to-do's over birthdays. The Diary of
              Margaret Hoby, who lived in Yorkshire in the 1590's has been
              published - she records fairly mundane details of her daily life &
              there is nothing in there about her wedding anniversaries or
              birthdays, for either her or her family or the servants.

              Saints days were still noted and if an anniversary or birthday
              coincided with that, it might be noticed, but I doubt celebrated
              like we do now.

              Queen Elizabeth I had her Ascension Day tilts - her mythology sort
              of melded with that of the Virgin Mary & it all got celebrated
              together. She gave gifts for Christenings & things like that, but
              I've not seen for birthdays or anniversaries.

              Not much help I know - lack of evidence doesn't really prove
              anything either way, just lack of evidence.

              cheers,
              Margaret
              --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, Robert Kirby <lariandrobert@f...>
              wrote:
              > In the past a couple of folks, Margaret Hepburn and Effrick as I
              recall, have
              > mentioned researching Scottish wedding rites. My present interest
              is whether
              > anyone has references on how Britons, most especially Aberdonians,
              commemorated
              > wedding anniversaries. I'm particularly interested in the 16c.
              Assuming that
              > they observed them in any way, that is. Thanks in advance,
              > Malcolm Drum
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