Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [albanach] simplicity 8855

Expand Messages
  • Sharon L. Krossa
    I agree with Margaret s assessment of the suitability of Simplicity 8855 (for late 1200s
    Message 1 of 34 , Dec 2, 2003
      I agree with Margaret's assessment of the suitability of Simplicity
      8855 <http://www.simplicity.com/design.cfm?designId=4878&design=8855>
      (for late 1200s Highlands or any period), but just can't resist
      adding a few comments below:

      At 11:35 PM -0800 12/1/03, Julie Stackable wrote:
      >Dear Erin, The short answer is absolutely not.
      >The long answer: This is a later period pseudo
      >version of 'Highland Garb'. Tight, laced bodices
      >that are separate from the skirt are distinctly
      >late period, as in 1550's onwards. The blouse
      >they are giving here is sort of a hybrid of a
      >couple of later styles, also not good for the
      >13th century. I'm not even going to comment on
      >the hat or the hairstyle as I think we are
      >supposed to refrain from profanity on this list

      Likewise the less said about the shawl pinned to both shoulders of
      the bodice, the better...

      >(Erin, that comment is not directed at you - you
      >are asking an honest question - the mass marketed
      >pattern companies have been committing some
      >heinous costume crimes that 15 minutes with a
      >decent encyclopedia could correct).
      >For 13th century Highland garb, you would be
      >looking at basically what most of the Western
      >half of Europe was wearing - a T-tunic, for lack
      >of a better descriptive name, with a full, gored
      >skirt. Your chemise would be of the same cut,
      >tighter fitting. You might have an overdress of
      >the same cut, possibly sleeveless, possibly with
      >a shorter hem, showing off the underdress (this
      >is a very brief, generic explanation of what you
      >might wear). Both Sharon Krossa's website and
      >Kass McGann's have lots of info on what's proper
      >for the period you are interested in as well as
      >the location. Now, having said that - it also

      Actually, mine doesn't have lots on 1200s -- though someday I will
      add what I can find -- just a general discussion (which would apply
      to any period) of the need to refine clothing questions to a
      particular time and culture before the question can reasonably be
      answered (and asking about 1200s Highlands already has narrowed the
      question to an answerable point). I would only add that in the 13th
      century if a Scoto-Norman in the geographic Highlands (which was not
      mutually exclusive with being a Gael), you're most likely going to
      dress basically in ye olde generic 13th century Anglo-Norman style,
      if you're a Gael without a Scoto-Norman background, my generic answer
      is usually that you would have dressed similarly to the Irish of the
      same period, but to be honest I don't know whether the Irish dressed
      significantly differently from the Anglo-Normans in the late 1200s.
      Some variation of T-tunic and the like sounds pretty reasonable to
      me, but I haven't really researched the question specifically.

      >depends on where & why you are going to wear this
      >costume. Personally, I would say don't at all,
      >but that's just me. For a Highland Games or a
      >non-court SCA event, (believe me, I've seen worse
      >at both), it would be okay I guess. But bear in
      >mind, a) it's meant to be a representation of
      >later period clothing, not early

      Well, if one is being generous in assuming motive ;-) I'd say it is
      meant to be a representation of modern Romantic ideas about Scottish
      clothing rather than a representation of any period. (The use of
      "Celtic" to describe the pattern is bit of a red flag in that regard,

      >and b) very
      >little of it is documentable for anybody at any
      >time, they have used a general shape to give a
      >general impression - it is a costume, not garb in
      >any remote sense.

      That's my reaction as well (though I'd put it as "not a recreation of
      historical clothing in any remote sense" ;-)

      >You obviously have access to
      >the internet and there is a wealth of info out
      >there on 13th cent. clothing. There is a fairly
      >new book out, The Medieval Tailor's Assistant,
      >that has some really good info for constructing
      >really period looking clothing. Not plugging
      >anybody, but I know Chivalry Sports carries it
      >(and yes, they commit many heinous crimes against

      And have unintentionally amusing discussions of the term "Claymore"
      in their catalogs (or at least they used to...)

      >but you can probably get it through
      >Amazon at this point. If you are not ready to
      >commit to spending 40$ on a book, you might ask
      >around your local area to see if anyone has it &
      >might be willing to loan it.
      >I hope this helped, you can email me direct if
      >you want some more basic info or need some addy's
      >to research some stuff - but I will warn you I do
      >almost exclusively 1570's Lowland costume.

      And thank goodness someone does! :-)

      Sharon, ska Affrick (in her Highland persona) and Effe (in her Lowland one)
      Sharon L. Krossa, skrossa-ml@...
    • scotsfencer@aol.com
      In a message dated 12/4/2003 5:34:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Sharon, I apologise if I came accross as rude. MOST DEFINITELY not my intention. I fully
      Message 34 of 34 , Dec 5, 2003
        In a message dated 12/4/2003 5:34:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
        skrossa-ml@... writes:

        > Sorry, but that's rude. The SCA clothing requirement for
        > participation in events is "an attempt at pre-17th century clothing"
        > -- no success required (let alone requirements that clothing match
        > activities with regard to historical authenticity). To offer
        > unsolicited negative comments on someone else's clothing in the SCA
        > (or anywhere else) is just plain rude. And every time someone engages
        > in such rude behaviour using the excuse of authenticity, people such
        > as myself who advocate authenticity get blamed and accused of being
        > "authenticity police" (or worse) despite not behaving in such a rude
        > manner and, indeed, condemning those who do.
        > Sharon, ska Effrick


        I apologise if I came accross as rude. MOST DEFINITELY not my intention. I
        fully respect any attempt at pre-17th C. garb. lord knows I dont have the best
        garb in the world, what I have makes do. My only response would be that I didnt
        know that blue jeans was pre-17th..... attempt or not. Honestly im gutless
        and have not ever and probably will never say anything deragatory about
        someone's clothes. Im just now getting to where I have enough garb and guts to offer
        them some loaner's in case they forgot theirs.
        One another subject, Sharon could you please contact me off list for some
        name help for someone in my local group. I dont think part of it is right, but I
        dont know how to make it right. Thanks

        Service with a smile,


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.