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RE: [albanach] Digest Number 550

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  • Derek Godfrey
    That was a scary movie...didn t see the sequel though. I am not trying to come off as closed minded...but I AM a minister (not ordained yet, though) of the
    Message 1 of 25 , Sep 7, 2003
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      That was a scary movie...didn't see the sequel though. I am not trying to
      come off as closed minded...but I AM a minister (not ordained yet, though)
      of the Gospel (Christian/Pentecostal) and I have done quite a bit of
      research into this matter. The Bible says"You cannot serve two
      masters...you love the one and hate the other" these are the words of Jesus,
      therefore, I have sound theological reasons for my statements..besides what
      the Mason's own documents say in their library in DC.

      Any further discussion on this matter should be taken into private e-mail,
      as it is extremely off-topic and probably distasteful to some. I apologize
      for continuing the discussion this far.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: scotsfencer@... [mailto:scotsfencer@...]
      Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:49 PM
      To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [albanach] Digest Number 550


      Derek,

      I personally am not a mason, nor do I wish to be. And I respect your choice
      in the same. I must say however that some of your statements come off as
      almost closed minded christian. To say that any other persons beliefs would
      be "satanic" is amazing. However, one of my favorite sayings (and one that I
      live by) "I may disagree with what you say, but I will fight to the death
      for your right to say it". It would be interesting to dig up some more
      research on the subject though. Anyone ever seen that movie "The Skulls"....
      hahahaha

      Gavine






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Derek Godfrey
      The Muslim symbols are the Half moon emblems that the Oasis and Shriners use. The fez the Shriners use is distinctly Muslim and represents a massive slaughter
      Message 2 of 25 , Sep 7, 2003
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        The Muslim symbols are the Half moon emblems that the Oasis and Shriners
        use. The fez the Shriners use is distinctly Muslim and represents a massive
        slaughter of Christians in the past...it took place in a town called "Fez"
        and the red color represents the blood from the be-headings that took place
        during that massacre. It is easy to verify this information, historically
        speaking. Shall I give details as to what the Eastern Star represents?? If
        you are interested in this, e-mail me privately and I will give more
        details. My point being that "carpenters and mathematicians" are NOT
        necessarily Muslim. The Square and the Compass are indeed tools of the
        masonry trade...but when inverted you see a different picture...again ask
        privately if you want to know.

        As for the Masons in general, the Title of Knight Templar (Order of Knights
        Templar Commandery) is granted at the highest level of the York Rite. Level
        32 in the Scottish Rite is "Master of the Royal Secret". There is a legend
        that the Templar Knights still exist and are guardians of the Holy
        Grail...but that is just a legend/myth.

        I have included this info so this thread is of some relevance to this list.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: scotsfencer@... [mailto:scotsfencer@...]
        Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:54 PM
        To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [albanach] Digest Number 550


        Tigherna,

        My friend also made reference to the building of King Solomon's temple.
        Interesting thing is I am a firefighter, and a large number of my fire dept
        "brothers" are masonic. Another thing I found interesing (I dont know how
        accurate perhaps you could shed light) was that the Shriners, well known for
        their burn center and such, to become a shriner you must be a mason.

        Also something that Ive found, the actual masonic symbol as commonly
        displayed is of a T-square and a compass style tool. Both of these are tools
        in the stone working trade. And if these are Muslim... then I guess all
        carpenters and mathemeticians are muslim also......

        Gavine


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      • Derek Godfrey
        Ok. I don t know if my reply to Lindsey made it to the list or not. I am interested in the garb of a Protestant minister post 1550. I am actually thinking
        Message 3 of 25 , Sep 7, 2003
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          Ok. I don't know if my reply to Lindsey made it to the list or not. I am
          interested in the garb of a Protestant minister post 1550. I am actually
          thinking about 1615 to be more precise. This would be a Scottish Highland
          persona. I'd like to know what vestments would be worn during services by a
          Protestant minister, but also what normal daily wear would be. If it's
          Cavalier garb, that would be awesome...LOL...especially since I am a Rapier
          fighter.

          Aonghus


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        • K K
          many simbols are used by groups today without knowing the beginings the half moon symbol is used by over 20 older ethic groups including the jewish groups it
          Message 4 of 25 , Sep 7, 2003
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            many simbols are used by groups today without knowing the beginings

            the half moon symbol is used by over 20 older ethic groups including the
            jewish groups
            it was a time marker to most and was connect to the event that happen at
            that time

            and using a older pagan symbol does not make you pagan if it did the
            christains would be one of the most pagan groups next too wiccan asd many of
            their symbols have pagan roots as well as almost all of the hollidays....





            merry meet and merry part
            and merry meet again

            kevin

            //http:www.justjokeing.com/fooled_ya.html
            hee hee hee

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          • Chris Greek
            And let s not forget hundreds, nay, thousands of outhouses across the land...does that half-moon on the door designate it non-Christian friendly ? ... From: K
            Message 5 of 25 , Sep 7, 2003
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              And let's not forget hundreds, nay, thousands of outhouses across the land...does that half-moon on the door designate it "non-Christian friendly"?
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: K K
              To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 1:25 AM
              Subject: RE: [albanach] Digest Number 550


              many simbols are used by groups today without knowing the beginings

              the half moon symbol is used by over 20 older ethic groups including the
              jewish groups
              it was a time marker to most and was connect to the event that happen at
              that time

              and using a older pagan symbol does not make you pagan if it did the
              christains would be one of the most pagan groups next too wiccan asd many of
              their symbols have pagan roots as well as almost all of the hollidays....





              merry meet and merry part
              and merry meet again

              kevin

              //http:www.justjokeing.com/fooled_ya.html
              hee hee hee

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            • Lora Ludwikowski
              There is a mason group right on yahoo. I was allowed to join and I am a female. All they did was list jobs and resumes. Nothing else was done. Thought I might
              Message 6 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
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                There is a mason group right on yahoo. I was allowed to join and I am a
                female. All they did was list jobs and resumes. Nothing else was done.
                Thought I might see a listing for my area. I stayed on awhile saw nothing
                and got out after about a month or so. Maybe they did not know I was female
                not sure they never ask though.



                Lora in northern NY
                http://community.webshots.com/user/loradcl
                ICQ 818456
                Yahoo & MSN loradcl
                AIM loradcl96

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              • Peter A. Kincaid
                ... These days the close minded use the weapon of calling others who don t agree with them close minded. There seems to be any attempt to shame a person into
                Message 7 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
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                  >I personally am not a mason, nor do I wish to be. And I respect your choice
                  >in the same. I must say however that some of your statements come off as
                  >almost closed minded christian. To say that any other persons beliefs would
                  >be "satanic" is amazing. However, one of my favorite sayings (and one that I
                  >live by) "I may disagree with what you say, but I will fight to the death
                  >for your right to say it". It would be interesting to dig up some more
                  >research on the subject though. Anyone ever seen that movie "The Skulls"....
                  >hahahaha


                  These days the close minded use the weapon of calling others
                  who don't agree with them close minded. There seems to be
                  any attempt to shame a person into sharing their beliefs by this
                  way. This is shameful. The truth is that most religious groups and
                  even fraternal organizations are meant to be close minded. People
                  gather together with common beliefs to the exclusion of those
                  that don't share theirs. Christians (ie. fundamental ones) have every
                  right to be against Freemasonry as some of its symbols and
                  practises are against its teachings. Moderate christians may be
                  more accepting. However, a christian is a loose term these days
                  as many churches are being organized under the christian banner
                  to propogate very right wing or very liberal views. Freemasonry
                  and other fraternal organizations have every right to exist and
                  share their views. Nobody outside the organization has to agree
                  with them. If one doesn't like it then don't join.

                  I can say from my study of them that freemasony is meant to
                  be inclusive of most religions. Their beliefs were reflected in
                  the American constitution via the separation of church and state.
                  One has to look at the period in which it was formed. Most of
                  religions outside the established church were banned or their
                  members were prohibited from have any beneficial rights (ie. right
                  to own property). However, one has to recognize that this inclusive
                  belief while being noble is contrary to traditional christianity. One should
                  love your neighbor and be in peace with them but you can't
                  have your feet in two camps. In my opinion there was and still is
                  an attempt by some freemasons to connect its past to that of the Scottish
                  templars. The reason being that the templars had a romantic impression
                  among the populace. However, one forgets that the templars themselves
                  were disbanded in Scotland and their property was transferred to
                  that of the Knights of St. John of Jerusalem. The true Knights
                  Templar history in Scotland was mainly confined to the 13th and
                  14th century in Scotland. The Knights of St. John were a very
                  open group (no secrets) but they were very Christian and were
                  almost fanatical about defending the Holy Land and Europe for
                  Christians. They failed.



                  Peter A. Kincaid
                  Hampton, NB, Canada
                • Matthew Newsome
                  ... I m wondering how far, if at all, Protestantism had spread into the Highlands by 1615. All I know is that it took much longer to gain acceptance by the
                  Message 8 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
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                    Derek Godfrey wrote:

                    > Ok. I don't know if my reply to Lindsey made it to the list or not.
                    > I am
                    > interested in the garb of a Protestant minister post 1550. I am
                    > actually
                    > thinking about 1615 to be more precise. This would be a Scottish
                    > Highland
                    > persona. I'd like to know what vestments would be worn during
                    > services by a
                    > Protestant minister, but also what normal daily wear would be. If
                    > it's
                    > Cavalier garb, that would be awesome...LOL...especially since I am a
                    > Rapier
                    > fighter.

                    I'm wondering how far, if at all, Protestantism had spread into the
                    Highlands by 1615. All I know is that it took much longer to gain
                    acceptance by the Highland Scots than in the lowlands. In the
                    eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, a lot of Scottish Presbyterians
                    still considered the Highlands "missionary territory." So to make this
                    work you may have to move your Highland persona into the Lowlands....

                    Aye,
                    Eogan

                    --
                    Matthew A. C. Newsome
                    http://albanach.org
                    Highland Dress Historian
                    Catholic Apologist

                    TURRIS FORTIS Catholic Apologetics
                    on line at http://turrisfortis.com

                    "To whom shall we go?" -- St. Peter
                    John 6:68
                  • Derek Godfrey
                    Well, I will have to take that into account...I wonder where I might find some more info on that? Again, this is merely something I am researching at this
                    Message 9 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
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                      Well, I will have to take that into account...I wonder where I might find
                      some more info on that? Again, this is merely something I am researching at
                      this point, nothing is set in stone concerning the persona.

                      Aonghus

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Matthew Newsome [mailto:eogan@...]
                      Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 7:31 AM
                      To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [albanach] Back on-topic


                      Derek Godfrey wrote:

                      > Ok. I don't know if my reply to Lindsey made it to the list or not.
                      > I am
                      > interested in the garb of a Protestant minister post 1550. I am
                      > actually
                      > thinking about 1615 to be more precise. This would be a Scottish
                      > Highland
                      > persona. I'd like to know what vestments would be worn during
                      > services by a
                      > Protestant minister, but also what normal daily wear would be. If
                      > it's
                      > Cavalier garb, that would be awesome...LOL...especially since I am a
                      > Rapier
                      > fighter.

                      I'm wondering how far, if at all, Protestantism had spread into the
                      Highlands by 1615. All I know is that it took much longer to gain
                      acceptance by the Highland Scots than in the lowlands. In the
                      eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, a lot of Scottish Presbyterians
                      still considered the Highlands "missionary territory." So to make this
                      work you may have to move your Highland persona into the Lowlands....

                      Aye,
                      Eogan

                      --
                      Matthew A. C. Newsome
                      http://albanach.org
                      Highland Dress Historian
                      Catholic Apologist

                      TURRIS FORTIS Catholic Apologetics
                      on line at http://turrisfortis.com

                      "To whom shall we go?" -- St. Peter
                      John 6:68




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                    • scotsfencer@aol.com
                      In a message dated 9/7/03 11:59:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, croaker@circlewolf.org writes:
                      Message 10 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
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                        In a message dated 9/7/03 11:59:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                        croaker@... writes:

                        << The "All-seeing eye" for example is an occult symbol
                        >representing the Illuminati. >>

                        OOOO and the "All-seeing eye" can be found on the american one dollar
                        bill.... WAHOOO MONEY IS WORTHLESS. Also, cult is a nasty word to use..... one must
                        remember that one persons "cult" is anothers religion, and of course one
                        persons "religion" will be another persons cult.
                      • Derek Godfrey
                        Unfortunately, the reason the all-seeing eye is on the dollar bill is because the founding fathers, some were Masons. ... From: scotsfencer@aol.com
                        Message 11 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
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                          Unfortunately, the reason the all-seeing eye is on the dollar bill is
                          because the founding fathers, some were Masons.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: scotsfencer@... [mailto:scotsfencer@...]
                          Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 12:25 PM
                          To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [albanach] Digest Number 550


                          In a message dated 9/7/03 11:59:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                          croaker@... writes:

                          << The "All-seeing eye" for example is an occult symbol
                          >representing the Illuminati. >>

                          OOOO and the "All-seeing eye" can be found on the american one dollar
                          bill.... WAHOOO MONEY IS WORTHLESS. Also, cult is a nasty word to use.....
                          one must
                          remember that one persons "cult" is anothers religion, and of course one
                          persons "religion" will be another persons cult.


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                          your account or view the archives at www.egroups.com/list/albanach

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                        • Derek Godfrey
                          I was hoping for Protestant actually, rather than Catholic. But some older style cassocks look really nice. ... From: Lindsay
                          Message 12 of 25 , Sep 8, 2003
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                            I was hoping for Protestant actually, rather than Catholic. But some older
                            style cassocks look really nice.

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Lindsay [mailto:lindsay@...]
                            Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 5:41 AM
                            To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [albanach] Digest Number 550


                            Derek

                            I depends what you mean by 'priest' since Scotland went Protestant in 1560.
                            If you mean one of the few remaining Catholic priests, they would have
                            dressed in the manner of priests everywhere in Europe at the time. If you
                            mean a Protestant minister, the closest pictures you can probably find are
                            those of John Knox, George Buchanan etc. They mainly wore black.
                            The Clan Tartan's are an early 19th Century concepts (blame Walter Scott)
                            and the Clergy tartan will be an even more recent idea.
                            On the subject of Tartans, has everyone heard that there is going to be a
                            special Freemason tartan. This has struck me as odd since aren't they
                            supposed to be a 'secret' society???

                            Lindsay
                            www.gaddgedlar.com

                            >________________________________________________________________________
                            >
                            > Message: 4
                            > Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 03:13:44 -0400
                            > From: "Derek Godfrey" <derekg@...>
                            > Subject: Garb Question
                            >
                            > What would a Scottish "priest" of the Church of Scotland have worn in the
                            > 1600s? Playing with a new persona idea. Besides, the Clergy tartan and
                            the
                            > Clarke tartan are so very similar :)
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            >
                            > Aonghus
                            > mka Derek
                            >







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