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New to the group. An introduction and question.

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  • Seumas MacPherson
    Hello all. Glad I found this group. i hope to be able to contribute and learn somthing in turn. First of all, as I m sure a number of you are, I m a member of
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 18, 2003
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      Hello all. Glad I found this group. i hope to be able to contribute
      and learn somthing in turn. First of all, as I'm sure a number of you
      are, I'm a member of the SCA from the Shire of Krakenfjord (Vernon,
      British Columbia. I have been playing for about a year and chose a
      Scottish persona because really when I looked into my Dutch heritage
      it wasn't all that exciting. I am carded for Rapier, but still have
      much to learn. Anyway, enough about me the question I have is about
      my last name MacPherson which I understand to simply translate
      as "Parsons son". Waht I would like to know is would the Gaelic
      spelling have been used in the 16th century rather than the modern
      spelling and if so how is this pronounced (sounded out?) mac a'
      Phearsoin In the SCA would I use this spelling. I've allready learned
      not to pronounce Seumas as "Hamish" (chuckle) but as Shay mish.

      Hope someone can help as my persona is a work in progress.
    • James Crook
      I pronounce it Sou mus , but that is just my way of doing things. I am a 14th century Scot from the highlands (Lochaber), who is fighting in Italy as a
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 18, 2003
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        I pronounce it "Sou mus", but that is just my way of doing things. I am a
        14th century Scot from the highlands (Lochaber), who is fighting in Italy as
        a Mercenary thus I married an Italian Lady and have all the refinements that
        go with that.

        Seumas Camshronach an Lochabair Baron of Ruantallan (Nova Scotia)

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Seumas MacPherson" <canuckfan33@...>
        To: <albanach@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:13 PM
        Subject: [albanach] New to the group. An introduction and question.


        > Hello all. Glad I found this group. i hope to be able to contribute
        > and learn somthing in turn. First of all, as I'm sure a number of you
        > are, I'm a member of the SCA from the Shire of Krakenfjord (Vernon,
        > British Columbia. I have been playing for about a year and chose a
        > Scottish persona because really when I looked into my Dutch heritage
        > it wasn't all that exciting. I am carded for Rapier, but still have
        > much to learn. Anyway, enough about me the question I have is about
        > my last name MacPherson which I understand to simply translate
        > as "Parsons son". Waht I would like to know is would the Gaelic
        > spelling have been used in the 16th century rather than the modern
        > spelling and if so how is this pronounced (sounded out?) mac a'
        > Phearsoin In the SCA would I use this spelling. I've allready learned
        > not to pronounce Seumas as "Hamish" (chuckle) but as Shay mish.
        >
        > Hope someone can help as my persona is a work in progress.
        >
        >
        >
        > This is Albanach, a group devoted to the study and re-enactment of
        > Scotland c. 503-1603 AD. Post messages to albanach@egroups.com. Alter
        > your account or view the archives at www.egroups.com/list/albanach
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • Nancy Zupanic
        Morel Laurens Muirgheal inghean Labhrain http://www.island.net/~bearpaws/ ... From: Seumas MacPherson To:
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 18, 2003
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          Morel Laurens
          Muirgheal inghean Labhrain

          http://www.island.net/~bearpaws/
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Seumas MacPherson" <canuckfan33@...>
          To: <albanach@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:13 AM
          Subject: [albanach] New to the group. An introduction and question.


          Seumas wrote:
          > Hello all. Glad I found this group. i hope to be able to contribute
          > and learn somthing in turn. First of all, as I'm sure a number of you
          > are, I'm a member of the SCA from the Shire of Krakenfjord (Vernon,
          > British Columbia.

          Greetings Seumas! I too am from BC, on Vancouver Island and play rapier.
          It's nice to meet someone who is somewhat of a neighbor.

          > Anyway, enough about me the question I have is about
          > my last name MacPherson which I understand to simply translate
          > as "Parsons son". Waht I would like to know is would the Gaelic
          > spelling have been used in the 16th century rather than the modern
          > spelling and if so how is this pronounced (sounded out?) mac a'
          > Phearsoin In the SCA would I use this spelling. I've allready learned
          > not to pronounce Seumas as "Hamish" (chuckle) but as Shay mish.
          >
          > Hope someone can help as my persona is a work in progress.

          I'm not that great at names, with all the changes over the centuries in
          Scotland, but I found the following:

          http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?1619+0
          <Se/umas> itself is pronounced \SHAY-m@s\

          It could be that it is pronounced differently at different times. It could
          be that the person writing the report is incorrect as well. My own name was
          pronounced three different ways by St. Gabe's and the two people I asked, so
          . . .

          This client letter tells you a bit about the name MacPherson, but I don't
          think it will tell you anything you don't already know.
          http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?1631+0

          Sharon Krossa has a great site, with lots of info at
          http://www.medievalscotland.org/, including name articles. Matthew
          Newsome's site has some pretty necessary info for your persona. -
          http://albanach.org/review.html Please make sure to read his "intro" to
          each site - it tells what is valuable at a site and what should be
          discarded. Very important!

          Muirgheal inghean Labhrain
          (called Morel)
        • Sharon L. Krossa
          ... The S. Gabriel report is right about the pronunciation. Put in more human terms, (and and other variant spellings) are pronounced
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 18, 2003
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            At 6:43 PM -0700 6/18/03, Nancy Zupanic wrote:
            >Seumas wrote:
            > > Anyway, enough about me the question I have is about
            > > my last name MacPherson which I understand to simply translate
            > > as "Parsons son". Waht I would like to know is would the Gaelic
            > > spelling have been used in the 16th century rather than the modern
            > > spelling and if so how is this pronounced (sounded out?) mac a'
            > > Phearsoin In the SCA would I use this spelling. I've allready learned
            > > not to pronounce Seumas as "Hamish" (chuckle) but as Shay mish.
            > >
            > > Hope someone can help as my persona is a work in progress.
            >
            >I'm not that great at names, with all the changes over the centuries in
            >Scotland, but I found the following:
            >
            >http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?1619+0
            ><Se/umas> itself is pronounced \SHAY-m@s\
            >
            >It could be that it is pronounced differently at different times. It could
            >be that the person writing the report is incorrect as well. My own name was
            >pronounced three different ways by St. Gabe's and the two people I asked, so
            >. . .

            The S. Gabriel report is right about the pronunciation. Put in more
            human terms, <Seumas> (and <Seamus> and other variant spellings) are
            pronounced \SHAY-muss\, with the emphasis on the first syllable, and
            this pronunciation hasn't really changed from the time the name first
            came into Gaelic to the present day.

            The pronunciation \SHAY-mish\ is how <Seumais> is pronounced, and
            <Seumais> is the genitive/possessive case of <Seumas>. <Seumais>
            means "of Seumas" or "Seumas's", and so is not what is used for the
            given name. (It would be like naming your kid <Jim's> instead of
            <Jim> on his birth certificate.)

            The pronunciation \HAY-mish\ is how <Sheumais> is pronounced, and
            <Sheumais> is both the lenited genitive case of <Seumas> and the
            vocative case. The vocative case is the form used when you're talking
            directly to someone rather than about them to a 3rd person, and so
            not what is used for the given name. (It would be like naming your
            kid <O Jim!> or <Hey Jim!> instead of <Jim> on his birth certificate.)

            So

            Form Case Pronunciation Meaning
            ---- ---- ------------- -------
            Seumas Nominative \SHAY-muss\ "James"

            Seumais Genitive \SHAY-mish\ "James's" or "of James"

            A Sheumais Vocative \HAY-mish\ "O James!" (Hey, "James!")


            Effrick
            --
            Sharon L. Krossa, skrossa-ml@...
          • Nancy Zupanic
            ... Thank you. I was hoping you d put in your 2 cents, as I have an SCA son who calls himself Seumas, and was unsure if he was pronouncing it correctly.
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 18, 2003
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              > ><Se/umas> itself is pronounced \SHAY-m@s\

              Sharon wrote:
              > The S. Gabriel report is right about the pronunciation. Put in more
              > human terms, <Seumas> (and <Seamus> and other variant spellings) are
              > pronounced \SHAY-muss\, with the emphasis on the first syllable, and
              > this pronunciation hasn't really changed from the time the name first
              > came into Gaelic to the present day.

              Thank you. I was hoping you'd put in your 2 cents, as I have an SCA son who
              calls himself Seumas, and was unsure if he was pronouncing it correctly.

              Seumas, I hope to meet up with you sometime!

              Muirgheal
            • Diana Cosby
              ... Hi, Seumas. Nice to meet you. :) Diana Cosby -- wulfe6@cox.net VRW Newsletter Editor http://members.cox.net/wulfe6/ Every scene should have at least one
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 19, 2003
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                > From: "Seumas MacPherson" <canuckfan33@...>
                > Seumas wrote: Hello all. Glad I found this group.

                Hi, Seumas. Nice to meet you. :)
                Diana Cosby

                --
                wulfe6@...
                VRW Newsletter Editor
                http://members.cox.net/wulfe6/
                " Every scene should have at least one event, however small, that changes the course of the plot." - Alicia Rasley
              • Seumas MacPherson
                Thank you all for your wonderful replys. Muirgheal, I will be at Clinton this year should you wish to cross swords with a rookie!
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 19, 2003
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                  Thank you all for your wonderful replys. Muirgheal, I will be at
                  Clinton this year should you wish to cross swords with a rookie!
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