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Re: [albanach] Garb examples

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  • K Thomas
    *pokes her head out of lurk for a second to see if she knows this Dylan* And horray for more Scots! :) ~ Clothru ingen Matadign Shire of Hartstone Kingdom of
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 25, 2003
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      *pokes her head out of lurk for a second to see if she knows this Dylan*

      And horray for more Scots! :)

      ~ Clothru ingen Matadign
      Shire of Hartstone
      Kingdom of Athelmerc



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    • dylan_the_scot
      Indeed you do dear lady...indeed you do. Dylan Macgregor Baronry of Bjornsborg Kingdom of Ansteorra ... Dylan*
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 25, 2003
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        Indeed you do dear lady...indeed you do.

        Dylan Macgregor
        Baronry of Bjornsborg
        Kingdom of Ansteorra

        --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "K Thomas" <timeguardian@h...> wrote:
        > *pokes her head out of lurk for a second to see if she knows this
        Dylan*
        >
        > And horray for more Scots! :)
        >
        > ~ Clothru ingen Matadign
        > Shire of Hartstone
        > Kingdom of Athelmerc
        >
        >
        >
        > _________________________________________________________________
        > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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      • greywolfe64@aol.com
        Dylan, If your looking at a Highlander in the 15th century the information that I ve found points to a leine and a brat. The leine is a mid calf length tunic
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 25, 2003
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          Dylan,

          If your looking at a Highlander in the 15th century the information that I've
          found points to a leine and a brat. The leine is a mid calf length tunic
          with varying length sleeves (from no sleeves to full length). The length is
          shortened by tucking excess under the belt to bring it to about knee high.

          <A HREF="http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/irish/legendary.html">http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/irish/legendary.html</A> This is the best
          site for describing the leine that I've found and since the Highland Gaels
          were historically tied to the Irish Gaels as well as by blood I would say
          that this is your best bet.

          Ronan mac Cormack


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • jsb372002
          Snip ... that I ve ... unsnip OK, new to the group. My Name is Ryan Elkins, and Im known in the SCA as Lachlann Munro. Ive checked out Albanach.org regarding
          Message 4 of 14 , May 5, 2003
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            Snip
            --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, greywolfe64@a... wrote:
            > Dylan,
            >
            > If your looking at a Highlander in the 15th century the information
            that I've
            > found points to a leine and a brat.
            unsnip

            OK, new to the group. My Name is Ryan Elkins, and Im known in the SCA
            as Lachlann Munro. Ive checked out Albanach.org regarding clothing
            for Gaels, but what Id like to know is what exactly a brat is. Is it
            a shawl of some sort? Also, regarding plaids (simple checked), what
            were the most common dye colors available? I know that the more
            wealthy/nobility wore bright colors different patterns at the same
            time.

            Thanks

            Lachlann
          • greywolfe64@aol.com
            A brat is a rectangular piece of wool that can be worn (for men) over the shoulder and draped under the belt, worn from one shoulder down the chest up the back
            Message 5 of 14 , May 5, 2003
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              A brat is a rectangular piece of wool that can be worn (for men) over the
              shoulder and draped under the belt, worn from one shoulder down the chest up
              the back and pinned like a sash, worn like a cloak, or simply draped over the
              shoulder. As for plaids, the information that I've been able to find hasn't
              given any specifics, mainly because of translation issues (confusion with
              stripes = plaids???).

              I hope this has helped.

              Roan mac Cormack


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Matthew Newsome
              ... Basically, yes. Think of it as a nice warm woolen blanket you wrap around you to keep warm. We have more documentary evidence in SCA period of brats in
              Message 6 of 14 , May 6, 2003
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                jsb372002 wrote:

                > Id like to know is what exactly a brat is. Is it
                > a shawl of some sort?

                Basically, yes. Think of it as a nice warm woolen blanket you wrap
                around you to keep warm. We have more documentary evidence in SCA
                period of brats in Ireland than in Scotland, and there seems to have
                been some variety of style in Ireland (square, rectangular,
                semi-circular, hooded, not hooded, etc).

                Do you have access to _Old Irish & Highland Dress_ by H. F. McClintock?
                He goes into some detail on the brat.


                > Also, regarding plaids (simple checked), what
                > were the most common dye colors available? I know that the more
                > wealthy/nobility wore bright colors different patterns at the same
                > time.

                I suspect you mean tartans. "Plaid" was the Scots term for a shawl or
                brat as described above. As to what colors were commonly available,
                natural dyes in Scotland could produce a variety of colors, though some
                would be more expensive than others. I beleive someone recently posted
                that they had a book of natural Scottish dye recipies. Perhaps they
                would like to field this question?

                Aye,
                Eogan

                --
                Matthew A. C. Newsome
                http://albanach.org
                Highland Dress Historian
                Catholic Apologist

                TURRIS FORTIS Catholic Apologetics
                on line at
                http://albanach.org/apologetics

                "To whom shall we go?" -- St. Peter
                John 6:68
              • Ryan Elkins
                ... Does this mean there is some documentation for Scottish brats? Im not trying to push the boundaries of possibility, I just want make sure before I start
                Message 7 of 14 , May 6, 2003
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                  --- Matthew Newsome <eogan@...> wrote:
                  > jsb372002 wrote:
                  >
                  > > Id like to know is what exactly a brat is. Is it
                  > > a shawl of some sort?
                  >
                  > Basically, yes. Think of it as a nice warm woolen
                  > blanket you wrap
                  > around you to keep warm. We have more documentary
                  > evidence in SCA
                  > period of brats in Ireland than in Scotland, and
                  > there seems to have
                  > been some variety of style in Ireland (square,
                  > rectangular,
                  > semi-circular, hooded, not hooded, etc).

                  Does this mean there is some documentation for
                  Scottish brats? Im not trying to push the boundaries
                  of possibility, I just want make sure before I start
                  making garb that Im accurate as possible.

                  >
                  >
                  > > Also, regarding plaids (simple checked), what
                  > > were the most common dye colors available? I know
                  > that the more
                  > > wealthy/nobility wore bright colors different
                  > patterns at the same
                  > > time.
                  >
                  > I suspect you mean tartans. "Plaid" was the Scots
                  > term for a shawl or
                  > brat as described above. As to what colors were
                  > commonly available,
                  > natural dyes in Scotland could produce a variety of
                  > colors, though some
                  > would be more expensive than others. I beleive
                  > someone recently posted
                  > that they had a book of natural Scottish dye
                  > recipies. Perhaps they
                  > would like to field this question?

                  This would be most helpful! Off the top of anyones
                  head, can you think of the more common colors or
                  patterns found in Scotland?
                  >
                  > Aye,
                  > Eogan
                  >
                  > --
                  > Matthew A. C. Newsome
                  > http://albanach.org
                  > Highland Dress Historian
                  > Catholic Apologist
                  >
                  > TURRIS FORTIS Catholic Apologetics
                  > on line at
                  > http://albanach.org/apologetics
                  >
                  > "To whom shall we go?" -- St. Peter
                  > John 6:68
                  >
                  >
                  >


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                • Sharon L. Krossa
                  ... There is evidence that late period Scottish Gaels wore plaids (which are essentially a particularly kind of brat -- a rectangular piece of tartan cloth
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 6, 2003
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                    At 10:16 AM -0700 5/6/03, Ryan Elkins wrote:
                    >--- Matthew Newsome <eogan@...> wrote:
                    > > jsb372002 wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > Id like to know is what exactly a brat is. Is it
                    > > > a shawl of some sort?
                    > >
                    > > Basically, yes. Think of it as a nice warm woolen
                    > > blanket you wrap
                    > > around you to keep warm. We have more documentary
                    > > evidence in SCA
                    > > period of brats in Ireland than in Scotland, and
                    > > there seems to have
                    > > been some variety of style in Ireland (square,
                    > > rectangular,
                    > > semi-circular, hooded, not hooded, etc).
                    >
                    >Does this mean there is some documentation for
                    >Scottish brats? Im not trying to push the boundaries
                    >of possibility, I just want make sure before I start
                    >making garb that Im accurate as possible.

                    There is evidence that late period Scottish Gaels wore plaids (which
                    are essentially a particularly kind of brat -- a rectangular piece of
                    tartan cloth worn as a mantle/shawl/cloak). There is also evidence
                    that they wore the shaggy wool kind of brat (also found in Ireland --
                    it can look like a sheepskin in drawings, but is actually a kind of
                    woven shag wool thingy).

                    For some further info and resources on Scottish clothing, see

                    http://www.medievalscotland.org/clothing/

                    Sharon, ska Effrick
                    --
                    Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@...
                    Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more:
                    Medieval Scotland - http://www.MedievalScotland.org/
                  • Ryan Elkins
                    ... So, what exactly would it have been secured with? I remember seeing somewhere that the pennanular brooches we very early period. ...
                    Message 9 of 14 , May 7, 2003
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                      >
                      > There is evidence that late period Scottish Gaels
                      > wore plaids (which
                      > are essentially a particularly kind of brat -- a
                      > rectangular piece of
                      > tartan cloth worn as a mantle/shawl/cloak). There is
                      > also evidence
                      > that they wore the shaggy wool kind of brat (also
                      > found in Ireland --
                      > it can look like a sheepskin in drawings, but is
                      > actually a kind of
                      > woven shag wool thingy).

                      So, what exactly would it have been secured with? I
                      remember seeing somewhere that the pennanular brooches
                      we very early period.
                      >

                      >


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                    • Makfulchiane@aol.com
                      Greetings, My name is Iohne Makfulchiane and I m from the Barony of Carillon (SCA). I have been following many of the discussions in this e-group and have
                      Message 10 of 14 , May 7, 2003
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                        Greetings,

                        My name is Iohne Makfulchiane and I'm from the Barony of Carillon (SCA). I
                        have been following many of the discussions in this e-group and have found
                        them most informative.

                        But I have a question about your latest subject about leine and brat. Are
                        there any websites or books that would show how a brat was used (mostly how
                        it's made into a cloak, sash, etc.)? My persona is of a 14th century
                        Scotsman and I plan to make a brat but I'm not sure how. Any help would be
                        most appreciated.

                        Please forgive me if this information was already posted, but I didn't see
                        it.

                        YIS,

                        Iohne Makfulchiane
                        (Ken Warner)
                        Makfulchiane@...

                        ".....for it is the doom of man that they forget."


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