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Re: [albanach] Medieval Prayers

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  • Sharon L. Krossa
    ... Why particularly a _female_ character? Note that the Rosary is said to have been revealed to St. Dominic, who died in 1221. (See the online 1913 Catholic
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 31, 2002
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      At 4:46 PM -0800 10/31/02, L Baker wrote:
      >I don't Know...wouldn't it be more likely for a Female
      >Charecter in period to be reciting the Rosary??

      Why particularly a _female_ character?

      Note that the Rosary is said to have been revealed to St. Dominic,
      who died in 1221. (See the online 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia:
      http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm) Further, certain aspects
      of what we know of as the rosary pre-date Dominic, and certain
      aspects post-date him -- so a great deal depends on exactly what you
      mean by "reciting the Rosary" as to whether it is likely anyone, male
      or female, was doing it circa 1296.

      As always, when it comes to religion, it is a good idea not to
      speculate or make assumptions, but rather specifically investigate
      the particular question. Medieval religious practice in a certain
      time cannot safely be assumed based just on knowledge of religious
      practice in any other time, medieval or modern. Things change over
      time.

      Sharon, ska Ewphrick
      --
      Sharon L. Krossa, skrossa-ml@...
    • Matthew A. C. Newsome
      ... The only problem with that is that the second half of the Ave Maria (the part beginning Holy Mary, Mother of God. . . was not added until 1483 (as was
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 1, 2002
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        Muirghein wrote:

        > My admittedly not Catholic thought is that the Ave Maria might also be
        > a
        > good option.

        The only problem with that is that the second half of the Ave Maria (the
        part beginning "Holy Mary, Mother of God. . ." was not added until 1483
        (as was the name "Jesus" at the end of the first half). So, someone in
        the thirteenth century would be praying only the angel's annunciantion
        to Mary and Elizabeth's greeting.

        Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord be with you. Blessed art thou among
        women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

        Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et
        benedictus fructus ventris tui.

        Aye,
        Eogan
      • Matthew A. C. Newsome
        ... Actually, I misspoke. What I have is an Old English Our Father. Ah ha! Upon looking, I see that I do have the Middle English version taken from the
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 1, 2002
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          Diana Cosby wrote:

          > ~I would love to see that please. Thank you!
          > Diana

          Actually, I misspoke. What I have is an Old English Our Father.

          Ah ha! Upon looking, I see that I do have the Middle English version
          taken from the Wycliffite Bible of 1384.

          Fadir, halewid be thi name. Thi kyngdom come to. zyue to vs to day oure
          eche dayes breed. And forzyue to vs oure synnes, as and we forzyuen to
          each owynge to vs. And leed vs not in to temptacioun.

          Remember that "v" and "u" were used interchagably. And "z" here would
          have a "g" sound.

          I also have several sixteenth century English translations.

          Aye,
          Eogan
        • Matthew A. C. Newsome
          ... No more likely for a female than a male. But the Our Father is one of the prayers used in the rosary. The author is looking for a single prayer that
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 1, 2002
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            L Baker wrote:

            > I don't Know...wouldn't it be more likely for a Female
            > Charecter in period to be reciting the Rosary??

            No more likely for a female than a male. But the Our Father is one of
            the prayers used in the rosary. The author is looking for a single
            prayer that would be most familiar to a person. The Our Father is a
            prime choice.
            Aye,
            Eogan
          • L Baker
            I said Female Charecter (sp) because I seem to recall the initial post was about a female. As far as the Rosary, Well heck :) I ain t no Theologist, Just your
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 1, 2002
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              I said Female Charecter (sp) because I seem to recall
              the initial post was about a female. As far as the
              Rosary, Well heck :) I ain't no Theologist, Just your
              freindly neighborhood Druid :) I also am rather
              limited in my online time so cannot do to much in
              depth research into the esoterica of a given Prayer
              set. I mentioned the Rosary because it seemed...I
              don;t know...more of a better choice for keeping the
              mind occupied then jusy doin one prayer.


              Brightest of Blessings to You and Yours and YIS

              Fearghus

              BTW thanks for the URL :)


              --- "Sharon L. Krossa"
              <skrossa-ml@...> wrote:
              > At 4:46 PM -0800 10/31/02, L Baker wrote:
              > >I don't Know...wouldn't it be more likely for a
              > Female
              > >Charecter in period to be reciting the Rosary??
              >
              > Why particularly a _female_ character?
              >
              > Note that the Rosary is said to have been revealed
              > to St. Dominic,
              > who died in 1221. (See the online 1913 Catholic
              > Encyclopedia:
              >



              =====
              Beannachd nas Soilleir ort, agus air gach duine.
              (Brightest of Blessings to you and all you hold dear.)

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            • Matthew A. C. Newsome
              ... Right, but I think what we were getting at is why would a female character be any more or less likely to pray the rosary than a male character. You seemed
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 1, 2002
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                L Baker wrote:

                > I said Female Charecter (sp) because I seem to recall
                > the initial post was about a female.

                Right, but I think what we were getting at is why would a female
                character be any more or less likely to pray the rosary than a male
                character. You seemed to make that suggestion.

                > I mentioned the Rosary because it seemed...I
                > don;t know...more of a better choice for keeping the
                > mind occupied then jusy doin one prayer.

                It would certainly be a good choice for a meditative prayer. However,
                as a meditative prayer it requires a lot of focus. For something just
                to keep you mind occupied while doing other things, a single prayer,
                like the Pater Noster or the Ave Maria, seem to me better choices.

                Of course, this is a question for the author to decide, not us. ;-)
                Aye,
                Eogan
              • kathie buchanan-evans
                Thank you for posting the beautiful links for the Our Father ...I have one in Aramaic (the original language during the time of Jesus; not Hebrew)...Will
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 5, 2002
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                  Thank you for posting the beautiful links for the "Our Father"...I have one in Aramaic (the original language during the time of Jesus; not Hebrew)...Will post when I find it.
                  Respectfully,
                  Kabespir

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: J. Mackenzie
                  Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 5:09 PM
                  To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [albanach] Medieval Prayers

                  Several versions of the 'our father' in middle english here (c. 13th at the
                  bottom of the page:)

                  http://www.christusrex.org/www1/pater/JPN-english-mid.html

                  I once came across a site that had a recorded version of the 'our
                  father'...in either A/S or Middle English...but I can't seem to find it
                  now....I'll keep checking and post it if I find it.

                  joyce






                  >From: "Tonia Blake" <tonia@...>
                  >Reply-To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: <albanach@yahoogroups.com>
                  >Subject: [albanach] Medieval Prayers
                  >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 13:01:16 -0500
                  >
                  >Greetings!
                  >
                  >I'm looking for examples of medieval prayers in English (or M.E). A
                  >character in the novel I'm working on (set in southern Scotland, 1296) is
                  >trying to recite a common, simple prayer in her head as a way to distract
                  >herself...
                  >
                  >Any suggestions would be appreciated.
                  >
                  >Best,
                  >
                  >Tonia
                  >


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