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Re: [albanach] Name: Buchanan & Canonach (was: Family Surnames)

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  • Matthew A. C. Newsome
    ... Our gift shop carries Way and Plean s book because, as Sharon and Peter have pointed out, it is the best clan book that is available. As you can imagine,
    Message 1 of 24 , Sep 1, 2002
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      kathie buchanan-evans wrote:

      > My, My, My...
      > It seems that Moira's and Mine discussion, which probably should have
      > been private, really opened a can of worms...well, at least the once
      > quiet list, is brewing again! Thanks for all your input...Think I'd
      > better spend more time reading and less time talking for
      > awhile...Matt, you know the books I sited were from your store and the
      > Clans and Tartans Book, I remember seeing over 35 years ago, not the
      > 1997 copyright....that's why I bought it...it seemed credible at the
      > time...apparently not? So why is it carried by the store, no offense
      > intended....but again...hammers and screwdrivers...
      > Cassandra Buchanan/aka Kabespir

      Our gift shop carries Way and Plean's book because, as Sharon and Peter
      have pointed out, it is the best "clan book" that is available.

      As you can imagine, we get people interested in a variety of books.
      Some want coffee table books, some want scholarly histories. Some want
      nothing less than academic resources published by reputable
      universities, and some want the glossy-print paperback with lots of
      pictures for $5.95. That's why we stock titles by Michael Lynch and G.
      W. S. Barrow (among others) as well as Nigel Tranter and more popular
      authors.

      While there are some books I just won't carry (like anything by "Prince"
      Michael of Albany) I don't have the time to personally review each book
      we stock, and so I try to keep a variety. When it comes to my attention
      that a particular book or author is patently unreliable (as opposed to
      just "not perfect") I don't reorder it. For instance, I used to keep
      Peter Ellis's _Celtic Women_ in stock until I actually read parts of it.
      ;-)

      Anyway, the point is that Way and Plean's clan book is the best of the
      "clan books" that are available now, and the information therein is
      generally reliable, even if not perfect. We shouldn't expect any book,
      on any subject, to be perfect, and so should exercise our own critical
      analysis skills with any work that we read.

      Aye,
      Matt (Eogan hasn't read any of these books).
    • kathie buchanan-evans
      Thank you. Kabespir/Cassandra ... From: Matthew A. C. Newsome Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 9:32 AM To: albanach@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [albanach]
      Message 2 of 24 , Sep 11, 2002
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        Thank you. Kabespir/Cassandra

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Matthew A. C. Newsome
        Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 9:32 AM
        To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [albanach] Name: Buchanan & Canonach (was: Family Surnames)

        kathie buchanan-evans wrote:

        > My, My, My...
        > It seems that Moira's and Mine discussion, which probably should have
        > been private, really opened a can of worms...well, at least the once
        > quiet list, is brewing again! Thanks for all your input...Think I'd
        > better spend more time reading and less time talking for
        > awhile...Matt, you know the books I sited were from your store and the
        > Clans and Tartans Book, I remember seeing over 35 years ago, not the
        > 1997 copyright....that's why I bought it...it seemed credible at the
        > time...apparently not? So why is it carried by the store, no offense
        > intended....but again...hammers and screwdrivers...
        > Cassandra Buchanan/aka Kabespir

        Our gift shop carries Way and Plean's book because, as Sharon and Peter
        have pointed out, it is the best "clan book" that is available.

        As you can imagine, we get people interested in a variety of books.
        Some want coffee table books, some want scholarly histories. Some want
        nothing less than academic resources published by reputable
        universities, and some want the glossy-print paperback with lots of
        pictures for $5.95. That's why we stock titles by Michael Lynch and G.
        W. S. Barrow (among others) as well as Nigel Tranter and more popular
        authors.

        While there are some books I just won't carry (like anything by "Prince"
        Michael of Albany) I don't have the time to personally review each book
        we stock, and so I try to keep a variety. When it comes to my attention
        that a particular book or author is patently unreliable (as opposed to
        just "not perfect") I don't reorder it. For instance, I used to keep
        Peter Ellis's _Celtic Women_ in stock until I actually read parts of it.
        ;-)

        Anyway, the point is that Way and Plean's clan book is the best of the
        "clan books" that are available now, and the information therein is
        generally reliable, even if not perfect. We shouldn't expect any book,
        on any subject, to be perfect, and so should exercise our own critical
        analysis skills with any work that we read.

        Aye,
        Matt (Eogan hasn't read any of these books).


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      • kathie buchanan-evans
        Thank you for your input , Sharon...Sorry for the late reply but I have been ill, having trouble with my ISP dialup (live rurally) and haven t been getting or
        Message 3 of 24 , Sep 29, 2002
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          Thank you for your input , Sharon...Sorry for the late reply but I have been ill, having trouble with my ISP dialup (live rurally) and haven't been getting or receiving mail due to full inbox, etc. For me, I would just like to know more about my Buchanan heritage and would like to devise a name that incorporates my given name Buchanan, Kathie Ann...I thought about Cassandra Buchanan, but do not yet fully understand the requirements for SCA...I meant that the map on the site showed Loch Lomond...It is in the Clans and Tartans book (The best one we have , modern?) ...besides Squire and Way and Black's...which I do not have access to...so you will have to forgive my ignorance on these subjects...being new to this group, in the process of geneology research and just wanting to be who I am but looking for a little more for SCA purposes... Respectfully,
          Kabespir

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Sharon L. Krossa
          Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 5:35 AM
          To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [albanach] Family Surnames (was: That Film)

          At 12:20 AM -0400 8/27/02, kathie buchanan-evans wrote:
          >Dear Moira,
          >Thank you for your kind reply! I was told by others that one
          >usually uses the name of the ''lands" of the name (Buchanan
          >Loch Lomond (north-east) is the Clan Lands , Slogan: Chlar-innis (an
          >island in Loch Lomond, check Sharon's site, I believe for an old map
          >of these lands...looks like we were surrounded by bogs:),

          I'm not sure what you're saying here?

          >Plant
          >Badges: Billberry and Oak,

          Note that so far we haven't really been able to date plant badges to
          SCA period.

          >You probably know the Motto:
          >Brighter Hence the Honour...and if you have more info on the meaning
          >of this , I would appreciate it.

          George Way of Plean and Romilly Squire, in _Scottish Clan & Family
          Encyclopedia_ (one of the better and more reliable of the clan books
          -- not perfect, but generally sound, especially when it comes to
          heraldry, including mottos) indicate the Buchanan motto is "Clarior
          hinc honos" which they translate as "Hence the brighter honour".

          >Also, the Clan Buchanan is "said
          >to desend from Anselon (others, the afoementioned book, say Abselon,
          >son of MacBeth), Son of the King of Ulster, who received the lands
          >of Buchanan on the shores of Loch Lomond in 1016,

          Way and Squire say "granted by the Earls of Lennox to one Absalon
          around 1225". I would trust Way and Squire's 1225 over 1016.

          >The afoementioned bo
          >ok on Clans says the lands of "buth chanain"
          >(the seat/house of the canon/canon may be alluded to some sort of
          >connection with "the ancient Celtic Church families or himself a
          >clergyman"

          Well, note that this is a placename -- the place got named after a
          canon (or rather, after his house ;-). Subsequent people who were
          called <de Buchanan> had nothing to do with canons, they only had to
          do with the place. (And the eponymous canon himself is really
          unlikely to have ever been called <de Buchanan>, since he was so
          famous the land got named after him, so it's unlikely he'd get named
          after the land ;-) As an analogy, if I were to be called (using
          medieval naming) "Sharon of San Jose", this would not indicate that I
          have anything to do with Joseph the saint, it indicates that I come
          from a place named San Jose (well, the area near San Jose, in my case
          ;-).

          >Ibid: Clans and Tartans. In "Old Gaelic pronounced
          >Bu-chanan.

          Well, in Old Gaelic (Old Irish/Early Gaelic or Middle Irish/Middle
          Gaelic, up to around 1200) it would have been pronounced roughly
          \BOOTH KHAHN-ahn\. But later, yes, it would have been roughly \BOO
          KHAHN-ahn\ in either Gaelic or Scots pronunciation. In both cases the
          \BOO\ is like English <boo>, (but *not* like English <book>) and the
          \KH\ is the rasping sound of the <ch> in Scottish <loch> or German
          <ach> and <Bach>.

          >The lands known as buth chanain were "granted in 1225 by
          >the Earl of Lennox"... and..." lie east of Loch Lomond". I do not
          >understand the discrepancy in time except that most history was
          >either oral tradition

          No, the discrepancy is undoubtedly because someone (modern) got it
          wrong when they said 1016. We only know the around 1225 date because
          we have documentary evidence that indicates a grant around that time.
          (See Black, s.n. Buchanan for specific cites of documents.)

          >("committed to memory ...each household
          >retained and honoured
          >a "seannachie" " for this purpose... Ibid: Clans and Tartans.

          Well, significant Gaelic ruling kindreds did. I do not know that the
          Buchanans did -- or if they ever did, they don't seem terribly likely
          to have been doing so by late period. (I'm not saying the definitely
          didn't, but this is one of those cases where I'd like to see evidence
          that they actually did have the trappings of a Gaelic chiefly family
          before concluding that they did.)

          >were confiscated in 1425. The Buchanan coat of arms/shield is the
          >same as The Royal House of Stewart
          >except Black, not Red...

          Note that the red version aren't the arms of the Royal House of
          Stewart, they are the Royal Arms of Scotland, both before and after
          there were any Stewarts on the throne.

          >PS...based on the above Canonach seems quite plausible to me...but I
          >am uncertain of "ach" , does it mean "of the"?

          No, it is a Gaelic suffix that usually makes Gaelic nouns into
          adjectives (much as "-ish" and "-[i]an" do in English), but also can
          be used substantively (either using such an adjective as a noun or
          else using the suffix to create a noun).

          In this case, <Cananach> is just a Gaelic word meaning "canon" (as in
          a kind of priest).

          Sharon
          --
          Sharon L. Krossa, krossa@...

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          This is Albanach, a group devoted to the study and re-enactment of
          Scotland c. 503-1603 AD. Post messages to albanach@egroups.com. Alter
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