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Re: [albanach] Re: Seeking: Scottish Superstitions

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  • Sharon L. Krossa
    ... I would guess from the title and original date that it would be concerned about detecting and catching witches (by which it would mean evil in league
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 2, 2001
      At 10:51 PM -0400 6/2/2001, James Pratt wrote:
      >On 2 Jun 01, at 22:26, tollhase1@... wrote:
      >
      >> What about Reginald Scott's Book of witchcraft demons and spirits published
      >> 1600 something. Sorry exact title is incorrect.
      >>
      >> Richard Keith
      >>
      > That would be _The Discoverie of Witchcraft_ by Reginald Scot
      >(Dover edition published 1972) written in the last decade of the 16th
      >century. It is, however, more closely concerned with Western
      >ceremonial magic and the practice of goetia than superstitions.

      I would guess from the title and original date that it would be
      concerned about detecting and catching "witches" (by which it would
      mean evil in league with the devil types). It is well to remember
      that books written during the early modern witch craze about witches
      are pretty much like books written about the extraterrestrial aliens
      that have visited earth written in the late 20th century. In other
      words, although very revealing about those who write them and those
      like them and (one way or another) the culture of the times, they
      need to be approached with context in mind.

      Mind you, if my guess based on title and date are inaccurate, more
      specific details about the book would be appreciated!

      Sharon
      Sharon L. Krossa, krossa@...
    • tollhase1@aol.com
      In a message dated 6/3/01 2:39:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ... It has been twenty years of so since I have read the book. I used it as a reference for ghost
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 3, 2001
        In a message dated 6/3/01 2:39:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
        krossa@... writes:


        Mind you, if my guess based on title and date are inaccurate, more
        specific details about the book would be appreciated!

        Sharon L. Krossa, krossa@...


        It has been twenty years of so since I have read the book.  I used it as a
        reference for ghost and demons as used in Hamlet. IT talks about how ghosts
        were perceived.  What Satin could or could not do.  As I remember it, it also
        talked about common beliefs Vs what the current church believed and what
        intellectuals of the time believed.

        One also may want to check out the Catholic Encyclopedia.  There were some
        definite official belief changes after 1000 AD.  

        Wish that I could find that old paper I wrote.  Had a good list of books.

        Richard Keith
      • James Pratt
        ... Scot s opus does indeed include some of the same information as the _Malleus Maleficarum_ (1484) and the later work (1597) by King James VI of Scotland
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 3, 2001
          On 2 Jun 01, at 23:35, Sharon L. Krossa wrote:
          >
          > I would guess from the title and original date that it would be
          > concerned about detecting and catching "witches" (by which it would
          > mean evil in league with the devil types). It is well to remember
          > that books written during the early modern witch craze about witches
          > are pretty much like books written about the extraterrestrial aliens
          > that have visited earth written in the late 20th century. In other
          > words, although very revealing about those who write them and those
          > like them and (one way or another) the culture of the times, they
          > need to be approached with context in mind.

          Scot's opus does indeed include some of the same information
          as the _Malleus Maleficarum_ (1484) and the later work (1597) by
          King James VI of Scotland entitled _Daemonologie_ on the habits,
          customs and methods of detecting and punishing witches. He does
          not, however, give credence to the arguments they present and on a
          point by point basis sets them aside as without reason either through
          the application of the scriptures or the exercise of philosophy. (N.B.
          the _Daemonologie_ was written after Scot's work (1584) but was in
          accord with the same precepts as the MM. Indeed there is a theory
          that it was written contra Scot's assertions.)
          And in that denial lay the principal peril of his thoughts.
          Witchcraft was matter of law in that time, both secular and
          ecclesiastical, and to deny it was a dangerous act of contempt
          that could bring the maker into the court himself. Indeed James,
          when he became James I of England, condemned the book and
          ordered those copies that could be found burned
          What further makes Scot's work an anomaly of its time is the
          fact that it contained a grimoire section that provided the formulae
          of conjuration and dismissal for spirits, congress with the dead as
          well as the other trappings of western ceremonial magic. Granted he
          does annotate the text with sometimes scathing commentary;
          however, when compared with similar works, the rite and rote are
          the same.

          Cathal.


          >
          >


          "Laws are sand, customs are rock. Laws can be evaded and punishment escaped,
          but an openly transgressed custom brings sure punishment."
          Mark Twain
        • eoganog@aol.com
          In a message dated 6/2/01 10:13:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... I *think* I may have a book at work that reprints a 17th century account of witchcraft in
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 3, 2001
            In a message dated 6/2/01 10:13:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
            krossa@... writes:


            In general, 19th and early 20th century books on Scotland can be
            invaluable if they are published primary records (e.g., collections
            of direct quotes from medieval records) but if they are secondary
            works they are more often untrustworthy than reliable


            I *think* I may have a book at work that reprints a 17th century account of
            witchcraft in Scotland (or supposed witchcraft).  Not SCA period, but close.  
            I'll check tomorrow when I am at work and let you know.
            Aye,
            Eogan

            Tighearn Eoghan Og mac Labhrainn, OPE, CP
            Sacred Stone Pursuivant Extraordinary
            Web Master et A&S Minister, Hawkwood
            bard na hAlba agus Atlantia
            -------------------------------------------------------------
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          • Diana Cosby
            eoganog@aol.com wrote: I *think* I may have a book at work that reprints a 17th century account of witchcraft in Scotland (or supposed witchcraft). Not SCA
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 3, 2001
              eoganog@... wrote:  I *think* I may have a book at work that reprints a 17th century account of witchcraft in Scotland (or supposed witchcraft).  Not SCA period, but close. I'll check tomorrow when I am at work and let you know.

              ~Eogan, a book on Scottish Witchcraft isn't really what I'm looking for.  I want my character, a Scottish knight to be superstitious.  I'm trying to find out what type of things he might be superstitious about or do to ward off evil.  That type of thing.  Any suggestions for that?  Thank you in advance.
              Diana Cosby
              --
              wulfe6@...
              http://members.home.net/wulfe6/
              Finalist 2001 Wisconsin Fabulous Five Contest
               

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