Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

names

Expand Messages
  • wyrdwitch@starpower.net
    Greetings. Below, I ve listed seven names taken from various parts of the list on 12th Century names appearing on Effric s site, which appear in differing
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 31, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      Greetings.

      Below, I've listed seven names taken from various parts of the list
      on 12th Century names appearing on Effric's site, which appear in
      differing frequency in the Book of Deer. Is there anyone who would
      know:
      1) the pronunciation of these names (as can most closely be
      approximated), and
      2) the Anglicized versions of them as they would have been in
      that period if that's possible/they exist. If there were no
      Anglicized version (I suppose that may be the case for some
      of these) in the twelfth century, but there is one today,
      then that would be great as well.

      Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

      Cathal (James Pratt goes by this, doesn't he?)

      Broccin

      Dauid (David?)

      Mael-Giric (I noticed that Mael- began several names, and that Giric
      appeared by itself too--could this be something similar to the modern
      French system of Jean-Pierre, Jean-Claude, Jean-Michel?)
      * Thanks for your response, Eogan. I hadn't considered that
      at all. What, then, would the answer for Giric be? Was it a name
      associated with the church, or with leadership?

      Ruadri

      Sitheach

      Tralin

      My thanks,
      joel
    • Sharon L. Krossa
      ... These pronunciations are all for the 12th century. Other periods ... Well, more or less as one would guess in English: KAHTH-ahl , with the TH unvoiced
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 3, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        At 1:48 AM +0000 8/1/2000, wyrdwitch@... wrote:
        >Greetings.
        >
        >Below, I've listed seven names taken from various parts of the list
        >on 12th Century names appearing on Effric's site, which appear in
        >differing frequency in the Book of Deer. Is there anyone who would
        >know:
        > 1) the pronunciation of these names (as can most closely be
        > approximated), and
        > 2) the Anglicized versions of them as they would have been in
        > that period if that's possible/they exist. If there were no
        > Anglicized version (I suppose that may be the case for some
        > of these) in the twelfth century, but there is one today,
        > then that would be great as well.
        >
        >Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

        These pronunciations are all for the 12th century. Other periods
        would have other pronunciations:

        >Cathal (James Pratt goes by this, doesn't he?)

        Well, more or less as one would guess in English: \KAHTH-ahl\, with
        the \TH\ unvoiced like the one in English "path" (but not like the
        one in "that")

        >Broccin

        This is probably roughly \BROAK-een\ (so the first syllable rhyming
        with English "broke") Note that there are accents over both vowels:
        "Br{o'}cc{i'}n"

        >Dauid (David?)

        Well, it isn't really clear that this name was used by Scottish Gaels
        in the 12th century. In the gaelic notes in the Book of Deer the name
        appears in reference to King David only. OCM do indicate the name was
        adopted by the Irish Gaels, and certainly modern Scottish Gaels have
        a form of the name, so it would be reasonable speculation that at
        some point in the later middle ages the name was adopted by Scottish
        Gaels, but it is speculation and the earlier you go the more
        speculative it is.

        All that being said, if it were used in the 12th century by Gaels, I
        would expect the pronunciation to be roughly \DAH-vit\

        >Mael-Giric

        >(I noticed that Mael- began several names, and that Giric
        >appeared by itself too--could this be something similar to the modern
        >French system of Jean-Pierre, Jean-Claude, Jean-Michel?)

        No, it is a form of devotional name. The second part is usually a
        Saint's name. "Mael" literally means "tonsured one", so gives the
        sense "devotee". Note that the names are not necessarily able to be
        used separately. For example, only in very late period Scotland do
        you find anyone in Gaelic named simply "Patraic", earlier you find
        only "Mael Patraic" or "Gille Patraic".

        > * Thanks for your response, Eogan. I hadn't considered that
        >at all. What, then, would the answer for Giric be? Was it a name
        >associated with the church, or with leadership?

        No, Mael Giric was just a name. You'll notice in my article a number
        of devotional names with "Mael" or "Gille" (a similar construction,
        "gille" having the sense of "servant").

        Like all names, although it did have a meaning known by the people
        using it, names primarily mean "that person over there" rather than
        the underlying original literal meaning. Parents naming a child "Mael
        Giric" may or may not have had S. Giric in mind when naming their
        child.

        >Ruadri

        Roughly \ROO-ahth-ree\, with the \th\ voiced like the one in English
        "that" and "bathe" (but not like the one in "bath")

        >Sitheach

        Roughly \SHEE-thekh\, with the \TH\ unvoiced like the one in English
        "path" (but not like the one in "that") and the \kh\ the rasping
        sound of the "ch" in Scottish "loch" or German "ach" or "Bach".

        Note that the name has accents "S{i'}theach"

        >Tralin

        Probably something like \TRAAH-leen\

        Again, with accents "Tr{a'}l{i'}n"

        As for Anglicized versions, 12th century ones don't really exist
        because English/Scots wasn't used much in documents in Scotland in
        the 12th century. Latin forms probably exist for some, but it would
        take a bit to find them so I'd rather wait until you narrow down the
        list.

        As for modern Anglicized versions, most of these names aren't used
        anymore. However, the modern form of "Ruadri" ("Ruaraidh" or
        "Ruairidh") is often Anglicized "Rory". But this wouldn't apply to
        this 12th century form because the pronunciation had not changed yet.

        Sharon
        ska Affrick
        Sharon Krossa, krossa@...
        Medieval Scotland (including resources for names, clothing & history):
        http://www.MedievalScotland.org/
        The most complete index of reliable web articles about pre-1600 names:
        The Medieval Names Archive - http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names/
        Consultations about re-creating historically accurate pre-1600 names:
        Academy of Saint Gabriel - http://www.s-gabriel.org/
      • wyrdwitch@starpower.net
        Affrick, Many thanks for your response. I am working on narrowing the list, and will post any further questions. I had a feeling that there wouldn t be much
        Message 3 of 4 , Aug 3, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          Affrick,

          Many thanks for your response. I am working on narrowing the
          list, and will post any further questions. I had a feeling that
          there wouldn't be much in the way of Anglicized versions . . . I
          appreciate the offer for searching for Latin versions, but I probably
          won't need that.

          Thanks again,

          joel
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.