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Re: [aima-talk] What are the best online resources available for AIMA?

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  • Farid B
    Hi, ... I was just browsing Russel s page, and LISP was ALL over the place. Prolog was also included but not seemingly as much recommended as LISP. Yet, I
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 6, 2006
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      Hi,

      > If you have a chance to look at Norvig's book,
      > Paradigms of
      > Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in
      > Common Lisp, it
      > can teach you a lot. It will show you how compactly
      > Lisp can
      > represent and manipulate knowledge-related
      > structures and algorithms.
      >
      I was just browsing Russel's page, and LISP was ALL
      over the place. Prolog was also included but not
      seemingly as much recommended as LISP.
      Yet, I don't have much idea about LISP, I've heard a
      lot of hackers (in the sense of e.g. Eric Raymond)
      recommend it as a must-learn programming language. I'm
      not a professional programmer, so can I learn it fast?


      > C is a poor language for AI because its syntax is so
      > distant from the
      > concepts you are working with. The essence of AI is
      > concepts and
      > algorithms, not code and efficiency. When trying to
      > do symbolic
      > computations in C, most people end up unwittingly
      > re-implementing
      > many of the basics of Lisp in order to do the
      > symbolic computations.
      > "Those who don't know Lisp are forced to reinvent
      > it," the saying
      > goes.
      >

      Our instructor has not enforced much programming, as
      you mentioned: AI is mostly concerned with concepts
      not coding.
      Therefore it doesn't make much difference for me
      whether to learn Prolog/LISP? Considering the "short
      window of learning opportunity" for learning a new
      language highly effective for my AI, pitting Prolog
      against LISP, which one wins?

      I have the AIMA book, but I need some resource that
      can teach it to me. I'm not getting much from the
      class. Now, considering my case, is learning Scheme
      for aligning myself with the MIT iCampus course on AI
      a bad idea?

      I've got the impression that Scheme is an
      easy-to-learn language. Now, can you guide me what
      path to take?

      One last point:

      I've checked Russel's slides, they're fine. But are
      there ANY better-polished ones out there?

      > BTW: What free AI book is being referred to?
      >

      Is this question addressed to me or Ivan?


      > - Bob Futrelle
      >
      _______________________________________________________________
      > Robert P. Futrelle | Biological Knowledge
      > Laboratory
      > Associate Professor | College of Computer and
      > Information
      > | Science MS WVH202
      > Office: (617)-373-4239 | Northeastern University
      > Fax: (617)-373-5121 | 360 Huntington Ave.
      > futrelle@... | Boston, MA 02115
      > http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/futrelle
      > http://www.bionlp.org http://www.diagrams.org
      >
      > http://biologicalknowledge.com
      > mailto:biologicalknowledge@...
      >
      _______________________________________________________________
      >
      >
      > >Hi,
      > >
      > >> Should I go with Prolog or Scheme?
      > >
      > >I've heard a lot of times that learning a new
      > [computer] language helps you a
      > >lot using the others better. And that has been
      > indeed my personal
      > >experience. I
      > >program mostly in Java but use often recursive
      > methods I learned from Lisp,
      > >Scheme and the pseudo-code of AIMA.
      > >
      > >> Do you have any other resouces/slides/etc to
      > recommend?
      > >
      > >There is a free book about AI and lots of high
      > quality Wikipedia pages which
      > >will soon become the best source IMHO.
      > >
      > ><advertisement>
      > >I'm programming a library in Java (mainly with the
      > algorithms of AIMA). I'm
      > >programming applets too. You can see a preview at:
      >
      ><http://www.artificialidea.com/index.php?page=my_programs>http://www.artificialidea.com/index.php?page=my_programs
      > ></advertisement>
      > >
      > >IMHO Scheme, Lisp, Prolog (which I have no idea of)
      > are old programming
      > >languages. Most projects are done in C, when
      > performance is important, or in
      > >Java and Python, when performance is not very
      > important. As a language for
      > >students, Python is really intuitive. I like Groovy
      > too, but I
      > >haven't had much
      > >time yet to play with it.
      > >
      > >--
      > >Ivan F. Villanueva B.
      > >artificialidea.com
      > ><<< European Community Patent
      > will bring >>>
      > ><<< Software patents by the
      > backdoor >>>
      > ><<<
      >
      ><http://wiki.ffii.org/ComPatEn>http://wiki.ffii.org/ComPatEn
      >
      > >>>>
      > >
      > >SPONSORED LINKS
      >
      ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Artificial+intelligence+software&w1=Artificial+intelligence+software&w2=Artificial+intelligence+in+business&w3=Artificial+intelligence&w4=Artificial+intelligence+introduction&c=4&s=150&.sig=Z-KgstNm21fXWEV4ASPvHQ>Artificial
      >
      > >intelligence software
      >
      ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Artificial+intelligence+in+business&w1=Artificial+intelligence+software&w2=Artificial+intelligence+in+business&w3=Artificial+intelligence&w4=Artificial+intelligence+introduction&c=4&s=150&.sig=477uHvbluHUGZv4M3Wsnag>Artificial
      >
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      ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Artificial+intelligence&w1=Artificial+intelligence+software&w2=Artificial+intelligence+in+business&w3=Artificial+intelligence&w4=Artificial+intelligence+introduction&c=4&s=150&.sig=LONI6S4JBLJohI0gb7t-Ug>Artificial
      >
      > >intelligence
      >
      ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Artificial+intelligence+introduction&w1=Artificial+intelligence+software&w2=Artificial+intelligence+in+business&w3=Artificial+intelligence&w4=Artificial+intelligence+introduction&c=4&s=150&.sig=n5dsIRz6BWbukAv5Ru4LcA>Artificial
      >
      > >intelligence introduction
      > >
      > >
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    • Paolo Amoroso
      ... If by LISP you mean Common Lisp, i.e. the language the AIMA Lisp code is written in, you may have a look at this book: Practical Common Lisp
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 6, 2006
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        Farid B <farid_behnia@...> writes:

        > Yet, I don't have much idea about LISP, I've heard a
        > lot of hackers (in the sense of e.g. Eric Raymond)
        > recommend it as a must-learn programming language. I'm
        > not a professional programmer, so can I learn it fast?

        If by "LISP" you mean Common Lisp, i.e. the language the AIMA Lisp
        code is written in, you may have a look at this book:

        Practical Common Lisp
        http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book


        > I've got the impression that Scheme is an
        > easy-to-learn language. Now, can you guide me what
        > path to take?

        If you are interested in Scheme, see:

        Teach Yourself Scheme in Fixnum Days
        http://gd.tuwien.ac.at/languages/scheme/tutorial-dsitaram/t-y-scheme.html

        How to Design Programs
        http://www.htdp.org


        Paolo
        --
        Lisp Propulsion Laboratory log - http://www.paoloamoroso.it/log
      • Ivan F. Villanueva B.
        ... Thanks. I will. ... If you mean GOFAI, I consider the Python sources of AIMA much easier to understand than the lisp sources. For embodied AI, like Robot
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 6, 2006
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          On Wed, Apr 05, 2006 05:20:29PM -0400, Robert Futrelle wrote:
          > If you have a chance to look at Norvig's book, Paradigms of Artificial
          > Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp, it can teach you a
          > lot. It will show you how compactly Lisp can represent and manipulate
          > knowledge-related structures and algorithms.

          Thanks. I will.

          > C is a poor language for AI because its syntax is so distant from the concepts
          > you are working with.

          If you mean GOFAI, I consider the Python sources of AIMA much easier to
          understand than the lisp sources. For embodied AI, like Robot programming, C is
          the one. The best robot simulations I know, Player/Stage Project and Webots, are
          in C/C++

          > When trying to do symbolic computations in C, most people end
          > up unwittingly re-implementing many of the basics of Lisp

          "Symbolic Computations" is exactly the problem. "Symbolic Computations" are the
          reason why AI has not yet managed to create robots as intelligent as, say, a
          fish. A good book about it is: "Understanding Intelligence" by Pfeifer and
          Scheier.

          > BTW: What free AI book is being referred to?

          http://www.markwatson.com/opencontent/
          and some books in wikibooks.


          I think symbolic algorithms are an interesting field in AI, but not the only one,
          not even the most important one, and I think that fact is the first thing any AI
          student have to heard.

          Coming back to the OP's question, I would say the best languages to learn at
          the moment for AI are python because it is easy; and C/C++ for performance.

          --
          Ivan F. Villanueva B.
          artificialidea.com
          <<< European Community Patent will bring >>>
          <<< Software patents by the backdoor >>>
          <<< http://wiki.ffii.org/ComPatEn >>>
        • Robert Futrelle
          I have to agree that symbolic computation has definite limits. You could even go so far as to consider it a human conceit to try to reduce rich and complex
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 6, 2006
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            Re: [aima-talk] lisp and free book
            I have to agree that symbolic computation has definite limits.  You could even go so far as to consider it a human conceit to try to reduce rich and complex phenomena to a set of discrete symbols that we create.  Corpus-based NLP, HMMs, situated robotics systems, neural nets, etc., demonstrate the power that's accessible beyond human-designated symbols.  The argument that we have symbols in our heads is a hard one to support, and it's only getting harder.

             -- Bob Futrelle

            _______________________________________________________________
            > Robert P. Futrelle      | Biological Knowledge Laboratory
               Associate Professor  | College of Computer  and Information
                        >              |     Science MS WVH202
            Office: (617)-373-4239  | Northeastern University
            Fax:    (617)-373-5121  | 360 Huntington Ave.
            futrelle@...    | Boston, MA 02115
                     http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/futrelle
              http://www.bionlp.org   http://www.diagrams.org

                      http://biologicalknowledge.com
                   mailto:biologicalknowledge@...
            _______________________________________________________________


            On Wed, Apr 05, 2006 05:20:29PM -0400, Robert Futrelle wrote:
            > If you have a chance to look at Norvig's book,  Paradigms of Artificial
            > Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp, it can teach you a
            > lot.  It will show you how compactly Lisp can represent and manipulate
            > knowledge-related structures and algorithms.

            Thanks. I will.

            > C is a poor language for AI because its syntax is so distant from the concepts
            > you are working with.

            If you mean GOFAI, I consider the Python sources of AIMA much easier to
            understand than the lisp sources. For embodied AI, like Robot programming, C is
            the one. The best robot simulations I know, Player/Stage Project and Webots, are
            in C/C++

            > When trying to do symbolic computations in C, most people end
            > up unwittingly re-implementing many of the basics of Lisp

            "Symbolic Computations" is exactly the problem. "Symbolic Computations" are the
            reason why AI has not yet managed to create robots as intelligent as, say, a
            fish. A good book about it is: "Understanding Intelligence" by Pfeifer and
            Scheier.

            > BTW: What free AI book is being referred to?

            http://www.markwatson.com/opencontent/
            and some books in wikibooks.


            I think symbolic algorithms are an interesting field in AI, but not the only one,
            not even the most important one, and I think that fact is the first thing any AI
            student have to heard.

            Coming back to the OP's question, I would say the best languages to learn at
            the moment for AI are python because it is easy; and C/C++ for performance.

            --
            Ivan F. Villanueva B.
            artificialidea.com
            <<<                   European Community Patent will bring            >>>
            <<<                     Software patents by the backdoor              >>>
            <<<                      
            http://wiki.ffii.org/ComPatEn                 >>>

            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


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