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Re: [aima-talk] What are the best online resources available for AIMA?

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  • Ivan F. Villanueva B.
    Hi, ... I ve heard a lot of times that learning a new [computer] language helps you a lot using the others better. And that has been indeed my personal
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 5, 2006
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      Hi,

      > Should I go with Prolog or Scheme?

      I've heard a lot of times that learning a new [computer] language helps you a
      lot using the others better. And that has been indeed my personal experience. I
      program mostly in Java but use often recursive methods I learned from Lisp,
      Scheme and the pseudo-code of AIMA.

      > Do you have any other resouces/slides/etc to recommend?

      There is a free book about AI and lots of high quality Wikipedia pages which
      will soon become the best source IMHO.

      <advertisement>
      I'm programming a library in Java (mainly with the algorithms of AIMA). I'm
      programming applets too. You can see a preview at:
      http://www.artificialidea.com/index.php?page=my_programs
      </advertisement>

      IMHO Scheme, Lisp, Prolog (which I have no idea of) are old programming
      languages. Most projects are done in C, when performance is important, or in
      Java and Python, when performance is not very important. As a language for
      students, Python is really intuitive. I like Groovy too, but I haven't had much
      time yet to play with it.

      --
      Ivan F. Villanueva B.
      artificialidea.com
      <<< European Community Patent will bring >>>
      <<< Software patents by the backdoor >>>
      <<< http://wiki.ffii.org/ComPatEn >>>
    • Robert Futrelle
      If you have a chance to look at Norvig s book, Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp, it can teach you a lot. It will
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 5, 2006
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        Re: [aima-talk] What are the best online resources availab
        If you have a chance to look at Norvig's book,  Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp, it can teach you a lot.  It will show you how compactly Lisp can represent and manipulate knowledge-related structures and algorithms.

        C is a poor language for AI because its syntax is so distant from the concepts you are working with.  The essence of AI is concepts and algorithms, not code and efficiency.  When trying to do symbolic computations in C, most people end up unwittingly re-implementing many of the basics of Lisp in order to do the symbolic computations. "Those who don't know Lisp are forced to reinvent it," the saying goes.

        At least Java and some other modern languages took seriously the importance of the lack of pointers and automatic memory management that were in Lisp from the beginning.  Whether or not you use Lisp, you owe it a debt of gratitude.

        BTW: What free AI book is being referred to?

          - Bob Futrelle
        _______________________________________________________________
        > Robert P. Futrelle      | Biological Knowledge Laboratory
           Associate Professor  | College of Computer  and Information
                    >              |     Science MS WVH202
        Office: (617)-373-4239  | Northeastern University
        Fax:    (617)-373-5121  | 360 Huntington Ave.
        futrelle@...    | Boston, MA 02115
                 http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/futrelle
          http://www.bionlp.org   http://www.diagrams.org

                  http://biologicalknowledge.com
               mailto:biologicalknowledge@...
        _______________________________________________________________
        >


        Hi,

        > Should I go with Prolog or Scheme?

        I've heard a lot of times that learning a new [computer] language helps you a
        lot using the others better. And that has been indeed my personal experience. I
        program mostly in Java but use often recursive methods I learned from Lisp,
        Scheme and the pseudo-code of AIMA.

        > Do you have any other resouces/slides/etc to recommend?

        There is a free book about AI and lots of high quality Wikipedia pages which
        will soon become the best source IMHO.

        <advertisement>
        I'm programming a library in Java (mainly with the algorithms of AIMA). I'm
        programming applets too. You can see a preview at:
        http://www.artificialidea.com/index.php?page=my_programs
        </advertisement>

        IMHO Scheme, Lisp, Prolog (which I have no idea of) are old programming
        languages. Most projects are done in C, when performance is important, or in
        Java and Python, when performance is not very important. As a language for
        students, Python is really intuitive. I like Groovy too, but I haven't had much
        time yet to play with it.

        --
        Ivan F. Villanueva B.
        artificialidea.com
        <<<                   European Community Patent will bring            >>>
        <<<                     Software patents by the backdoor              >>>
        <<<                      
        http://wiki.ffii.org/ComPatEn                 >>>
        SPONSORED LINKS
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      • Farid B
        Hi, ... I was just browsing Russel s page, and LISP was ALL over the place. Prolog was also included but not seemingly as much recommended as LISP. Yet, I
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 6, 2006
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          Hi,

          > If you have a chance to look at Norvig's book,
          > Paradigms of
          > Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in
          > Common Lisp, it
          > can teach you a lot. It will show you how compactly
          > Lisp can
          > represent and manipulate knowledge-related
          > structures and algorithms.
          >
          I was just browsing Russel's page, and LISP was ALL
          over the place. Prolog was also included but not
          seemingly as much recommended as LISP.
          Yet, I don't have much idea about LISP, I've heard a
          lot of hackers (in the sense of e.g. Eric Raymond)
          recommend it as a must-learn programming language. I'm
          not a professional programmer, so can I learn it fast?


          > C is a poor language for AI because its syntax is so
          > distant from the
          > concepts you are working with. The essence of AI is
          > concepts and
          > algorithms, not code and efficiency. When trying to
          > do symbolic
          > computations in C, most people end up unwittingly
          > re-implementing
          > many of the basics of Lisp in order to do the
          > symbolic computations.
          > "Those who don't know Lisp are forced to reinvent
          > it," the saying
          > goes.
          >

          Our instructor has not enforced much programming, as
          you mentioned: AI is mostly concerned with concepts
          not coding.
          Therefore it doesn't make much difference for me
          whether to learn Prolog/LISP? Considering the "short
          window of learning opportunity" for learning a new
          language highly effective for my AI, pitting Prolog
          against LISP, which one wins?

          I have the AIMA book, but I need some resource that
          can teach it to me. I'm not getting much from the
          class. Now, considering my case, is learning Scheme
          for aligning myself with the MIT iCampus course on AI
          a bad idea?

          I've got the impression that Scheme is an
          easy-to-learn language. Now, can you guide me what
          path to take?

          One last point:

          I've checked Russel's slides, they're fine. But are
          there ANY better-polished ones out there?

          > BTW: What free AI book is being referred to?
          >

          Is this question addressed to me or Ivan?


          > - Bob Futrelle
          >
          _______________________________________________________________
          > Robert P. Futrelle | Biological Knowledge
          > Laboratory
          > Associate Professor | College of Computer and
          > Information
          > | Science MS WVH202
          > Office: (617)-373-4239 | Northeastern University
          > Fax: (617)-373-5121 | 360 Huntington Ave.
          > futrelle@... | Boston, MA 02115
          > http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/futrelle
          > http://www.bionlp.org http://www.diagrams.org
          >
          > http://biologicalknowledge.com
          > mailto:biologicalknowledge@...
          >
          _______________________________________________________________
          >
          >
          > >Hi,
          > >
          > >> Should I go with Prolog or Scheme?
          > >
          > >I've heard a lot of times that learning a new
          > [computer] language helps you a
          > >lot using the others better. And that has been
          > indeed my personal
          > >experience. I
          > >program mostly in Java but use often recursive
          > methods I learned from Lisp,
          > >Scheme and the pseudo-code of AIMA.
          > >
          > >> Do you have any other resouces/slides/etc to
          > recommend?
          > >
          > >There is a free book about AI and lots of high
          > quality Wikipedia pages which
          > >will soon become the best source IMHO.
          > >
          > ><advertisement>
          > >I'm programming a library in Java (mainly with the
          > algorithms of AIMA). I'm
          > >programming applets too. You can see a preview at:
          >
          ><http://www.artificialidea.com/index.php?page=my_programs>http://www.artificialidea.com/index.php?page=my_programs
          > ></advertisement>
          > >
          > >IMHO Scheme, Lisp, Prolog (which I have no idea of)
          > are old programming
          > >languages. Most projects are done in C, when
          > performance is important, or in
          > >Java and Python, when performance is not very
          > important. As a language for
          > >students, Python is really intuitive. I like Groovy
          > too, but I
          > >haven't had much
          > >time yet to play with it.
          > >
          > >--
          > >Ivan F. Villanueva B.
          > >artificialidea.com
          > ><<< European Community Patent
          > will bring >>>
          > ><<< Software patents by the
          > backdoor >>>
          > ><<<
          >
          ><http://wiki.ffii.org/ComPatEn>http://wiki.ffii.org/ComPatEn
          >
          > >>>>
          > >
          > >SPONSORED LINKS
          >
          ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Artificial+intelligence+software&w1=Artificial+intelligence+software&w2=Artificial+intelligence+in+business&w3=Artificial+intelligence&w4=Artificial+intelligence+introduction&c=4&s=150&.sig=Z-KgstNm21fXWEV4ASPvHQ>Artificial
          >
          > >intelligence software
          >
          ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Artificial+intelligence+in+business&w1=Artificial+intelligence+software&w2=Artificial+intelligence+in+business&w3=Artificial+intelligence&w4=Artificial+intelligence+introduction&c=4&s=150&.sig=477uHvbluHUGZv4M3Wsnag>Artificial
          >
          > >intelligence in business
          >
          ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Artificial+intelligence&w1=Artificial+intelligence+software&w2=Artificial+intelligence+in+business&w3=Artificial+intelligence&w4=Artificial+intelligence+introduction&c=4&s=150&.sig=LONI6S4JBLJohI0gb7t-Ug>Artificial
          >
          > >intelligence
          >
          ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Artificial+intelligence+introduction&w1=Artificial+intelligence+software&w2=Artificial+intelligence+in+business&w3=Artificial+intelligence&w4=Artificial+intelligence+introduction&c=4&s=150&.sig=n5dsIRz6BWbukAv5Ru4LcA>Artificial
          >
          > >intelligence introduction
          > >
          > >
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        • Paolo Amoroso
          ... If by LISP you mean Common Lisp, i.e. the language the AIMA Lisp code is written in, you may have a look at this book: Practical Common Lisp
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 6, 2006
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            Farid B <farid_behnia@...> writes:

            > Yet, I don't have much idea about LISP, I've heard a
            > lot of hackers (in the sense of e.g. Eric Raymond)
            > recommend it as a must-learn programming language. I'm
            > not a professional programmer, so can I learn it fast?

            If by "LISP" you mean Common Lisp, i.e. the language the AIMA Lisp
            code is written in, you may have a look at this book:

            Practical Common Lisp
            http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book


            > I've got the impression that Scheme is an
            > easy-to-learn language. Now, can you guide me what
            > path to take?

            If you are interested in Scheme, see:

            Teach Yourself Scheme in Fixnum Days
            http://gd.tuwien.ac.at/languages/scheme/tutorial-dsitaram/t-y-scheme.html

            How to Design Programs
            http://www.htdp.org


            Paolo
            --
            Lisp Propulsion Laboratory log - http://www.paoloamoroso.it/log
          • Ivan F. Villanueva B.
            ... Thanks. I will. ... If you mean GOFAI, I consider the Python sources of AIMA much easier to understand than the lisp sources. For embodied AI, like Robot
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 6, 2006
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              On Wed, Apr 05, 2006 05:20:29PM -0400, Robert Futrelle wrote:
              > If you have a chance to look at Norvig's book, Paradigms of Artificial
              > Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp, it can teach you a
              > lot. It will show you how compactly Lisp can represent and manipulate
              > knowledge-related structures and algorithms.

              Thanks. I will.

              > C is a poor language for AI because its syntax is so distant from the concepts
              > you are working with.

              If you mean GOFAI, I consider the Python sources of AIMA much easier to
              understand than the lisp sources. For embodied AI, like Robot programming, C is
              the one. The best robot simulations I know, Player/Stage Project and Webots, are
              in C/C++

              > When trying to do symbolic computations in C, most people end
              > up unwittingly re-implementing many of the basics of Lisp

              "Symbolic Computations" is exactly the problem. "Symbolic Computations" are the
              reason why AI has not yet managed to create robots as intelligent as, say, a
              fish. A good book about it is: "Understanding Intelligence" by Pfeifer and
              Scheier.

              > BTW: What free AI book is being referred to?

              http://www.markwatson.com/opencontent/
              and some books in wikibooks.


              I think symbolic algorithms are an interesting field in AI, but not the only one,
              not even the most important one, and I think that fact is the first thing any AI
              student have to heard.

              Coming back to the OP's question, I would say the best languages to learn at
              the moment for AI are python because it is easy; and C/C++ for performance.

              --
              Ivan F. Villanueva B.
              artificialidea.com
              <<< European Community Patent will bring >>>
              <<< Software patents by the backdoor >>>
              <<< http://wiki.ffii.org/ComPatEn >>>
            • Robert Futrelle
              I have to agree that symbolic computation has definite limits. You could even go so far as to consider it a human conceit to try to reduce rich and complex
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 6, 2006
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                Re: [aima-talk] lisp and free book
                I have to agree that symbolic computation has definite limits.  You could even go so far as to consider it a human conceit to try to reduce rich and complex phenomena to a set of discrete symbols that we create.  Corpus-based NLP, HMMs, situated robotics systems, neural nets, etc., demonstrate the power that's accessible beyond human-designated symbols.  The argument that we have symbols in our heads is a hard one to support, and it's only getting harder.

                 -- Bob Futrelle

                _______________________________________________________________
                > Robert P. Futrelle      | Biological Knowledge Laboratory
                   Associate Professor  | College of Computer  and Information
                            >              |     Science MS WVH202
                Office: (617)-373-4239  | Northeastern University
                Fax:    (617)-373-5121  | 360 Huntington Ave.
                futrelle@...    | Boston, MA 02115
                         http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/futrelle
                  http://www.bionlp.org   http://www.diagrams.org

                          http://biologicalknowledge.com
                       mailto:biologicalknowledge@...
                _______________________________________________________________


                On Wed, Apr 05, 2006 05:20:29PM -0400, Robert Futrelle wrote:
                > If you have a chance to look at Norvig's book,  Paradigms of Artificial
                > Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp, it can teach you a
                > lot.  It will show you how compactly Lisp can represent and manipulate
                > knowledge-related structures and algorithms.

                Thanks. I will.

                > C is a poor language for AI because its syntax is so distant from the concepts
                > you are working with.

                If you mean GOFAI, I consider the Python sources of AIMA much easier to
                understand than the lisp sources. For embodied AI, like Robot programming, C is
                the one. The best robot simulations I know, Player/Stage Project and Webots, are
                in C/C++

                > When trying to do symbolic computations in C, most people end
                > up unwittingly re-implementing many of the basics of Lisp

                "Symbolic Computations" is exactly the problem. "Symbolic Computations" are the
                reason why AI has not yet managed to create robots as intelligent as, say, a
                fish. A good book about it is: "Understanding Intelligence" by Pfeifer and
                Scheier.

                > BTW: What free AI book is being referred to?

                http://www.markwatson.com/opencontent/
                and some books in wikibooks.


                I think symbolic algorithms are an interesting field in AI, but not the only one,
                not even the most important one, and I think that fact is the first thing any AI
                student have to heard.

                Coming back to the OP's question, I would say the best languages to learn at
                the moment for AI are python because it is easy; and C/C++ for performance.

                --
                Ivan F. Villanueva B.
                artificialidea.com
                <<<                   European Community Patent will bring            >>>
                <<<                     Software patents by the backdoor              >>>
                <<<                      
                http://wiki.ffii.org/ComPatEn                 >>>

                YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


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