Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [ai-philosophy] Emotions and thoughts: are they the same kind of stuff?

Expand Messages
  • John G. Rose
    From: ai-philosophy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ai- ... Very well said. In the minute fidelity of the noise lies some of the most important information, yet of
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 8, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      From: ai-philosophy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ai-
      > philosophy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Gardener
      >
      > I think that the solution is, instead of trying to neutralize the noise
      > in a system, use it. Leverage the noise so that it becomes the ultimate
      > foundation or driver of the system. In the noise, in the fundamental
      > apparent randomness of reality, lies the qualities of truly living
      > things.
      >
      > The human brain is a hierarchy of many minds, the smallest ones less
      > capable than an insect's, the topmost one capable of grand abstractions,
      > but all of them capable of experience and choice, the noise of each
      > allowed to contribute and define the whole. It is a society of
      > differring experiences, different opinions and different choices, and
      > structured so that each higher mind experiences the choices of the ones
      > below, and chooses from amongst them which is best. It is not a network
      > of data, but a network of qualia, and it can only work if the initial
      > inputs come from the very heart of reality -- the quantum noise. Dampen
      > or ignore that, and the spirit is gone, the enterprise is lost.
      >
      > Ray
      >
      >

      Very well said. In the minute fidelity of the noise lies some of the most
      important information, yet of weak signal and computationally prohibitive to
      extract directly it's influence ultimately could be an important
      deterministic ingredient. Things are too clean w/o the noise, it doesn't
      work that way, it's almost like noise is a complex system whose barrier
      needs to be inclusively transgressed in order to get higher intelligence
      leverage.

      John
    • Ray Gardener
      ... Something like that. I pictured noise as symptomatic of the very force that animates the universe and gives it life, indeed defines life. There was an
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 8, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        John G. Rose wrote:
        >
        > Very well said. In the minute fidelity of the noise lies some of the most
        > important information, yet of weak signal and computationally prohibitive to
        > extract directly it's influence ultimately could be an important
        > deterministic ingredient. Things are too clean w/o the noise, it doesn't
        > work that way, it's almost like noise is a complex system whose barrier
        > needs to be inclusively transgressed in order to get higher intelligence
        > leverage.

        Something like that. I pictured noise as symptomatic of the very force
        that animates the universe and gives it life, indeed defines life.

        There was an article on Slashdot today referring to probabilistic
        computing; how energy-efficient and fast it was. Given enough processing
        elements, I believe one could both let the noise "speak for itself"
        while simultaneously gaining useful reliability. A statistical averaging
        can be used as an error detection/correction without adversely
        offsetting the speed and energy efficiency.

        Not to digress, but it's almost perfectly analogous to a dialogue I
        imagine God had with the Devil concerning creation. God could create
        life, but try as He might, it would either self-destruct inside a week
        out of sheer boredom or putz around doing nothing of interest.

        So finally the Devil slides up next to him and whispers, "I respect what
        you're trying to do, old man... but you know in your heart, you can't
        pull this off without me."

        And God sighs so mightily that the heavens and earth tremble, and with
        great sadness spreads his hands to let the Devil lend a hand. Satan
        gleefully jumps down to Man and starts tinkering, introducing mortals to
        apples and books and free will and so forth.

        "You will be sinful," he says, teeth glistening. "and corrupt, and
        craven, and decadent, and forever lusting for power. And paranoid, and
        fearful, and stupid, and you will prey upon each other and cause untold
        pain and suffering."

        "But how can God allow it?" cries Man.

        "Because," God answers from above, quietly, as if continuing to
        acknowledge defeat. "it is the only way you will survive. Because to
        exist without being interesting... it isn't enough."

        "I'll start by giving you free will." says the Devil. "Then you can
        choose yourself if you want all the rest. Fair enough?"

        Man nods, and with his free will, thinks it through, and realizes the truth.

        "Yes, I see now. You're right, there could be no other way."

        And even as he destroyed himself, Man flourished, because he was no
        longer bored. Great cataclysms and orgies of destruction waxed and
        waned, and yet Man spread to every corner of the Earth, and eventually
        the stars.

        And God wept, and the Devil laughed, but one day he stopped laughing
        long enough to say "You know, old man... I wasn't lying when I said that
        I respected what you were trying to do. And I didn't really want to be
        the bad guy, but I don't have the power of creation. I needed you as
        much as you needed me. For what's it worth... if it's any consolation now."

        And God watched as his creation -- perhaps, in all fairness, their
        creation -- spread to one star after another, the galaxy slowly but
        surely filling up.

        "It's okay." He replied, even as His tears fell. He tried to focus on
        all the good and wonderful things that were happening too, none of which
        would ever have been without the Devil's help. And He knew that those
        good things drove the Devil crazy, and as consolations went, it helped
        keep him from destroying everything and trying yet again another
        exercise in futility.

        Ray
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.