Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

18571Re: Re: [ai-philosophy] Leibniz's finalcausationastheSelf,theactiveagentofchange

Expand Messages
  • Roger Clough
    Aug 31 3:43 AM
      Hi Eray Ozkural

      Yes, God is nonphysical so is not in spacetime (doesn't exist).
      Same as Plato's One.
      And life and consciousness and mind,

      Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      See my Leibniz site at
      http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough


      ----- Receiving the following content -----
      From: Eray Ozkural
      Receiver: ai-philosophy@yahoogroups.com
      Time: 2013-08-30, 16:37:21
      Subject: Re: [ai-philosophy] Leibniz's finalcausationastheSelf,theactiveagentofchange




      >They just are :)
      >
      >Kind of like your non existent god
      >
      >--
      >Eray Ozkural
      >http://myspace.com/arizanesil
      >
      >
      >
      >On Aug 30, 2013, at 5:24 PM, "Roger Clough" wrote:
      >
      >> Hi Eray Ozkural
      >>
      >> What is the source of the physical laws ?
      >>
      >>
      >> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      >> See my Leibniz site at
      >> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >>
      >>
      >> ----- Receiving the following content -----
      >> From: Eray Ozkural
      >> Receiver: ai-philosophy@yahoogroups.com
      >> Time: 2013-08-30, 09:51:15
      >> Subject: Re: [ai-philosophy] Leibniz's finalcausationastheSelf,theactiveagentof change
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>> Sure. Physics & evolution
      >>>
      >>> --
      >>> Eray Ozkural
      >>> http://myspace.com/arizanesil
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> On Aug 30, 2013, at 1:51 PM, "Roger Clough" wrote:
      >>>
      >>>> Hi Eray Ozkural
      >>>>
      >>>> Sorry, I had to look it up. Creationism looks like the Biblical account,
      >>>> which is moreorless theological. My view is more phlosophisal and I leave
      >>>> it open as to whether you maintain that the creator is a personal being or
      >>>> wheher yiou consider the creator to be Plato's One, which is impersonal.
      >>>> Generally I consider it to be Cosmic Mind.
      >>>>
      >>>> No matter which view your choose, I don't see how the universe could
      >>>> have been created without some huge intelligence behind it. If you
      >>>> have better explanation, I'd be curious to hear it.
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      >>>> See my Leibniz site at
      >>>> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> ----- Receiving the following content -----
      >>>> From: Eray Ozkural
      >>>> Receiver: ai-philosophy@yahoogroups.com
      >>>> Time: 2013-08-29, 11:37:16
      >>>> Subject: Re: [ai-philosophy] Leibniz's final causationastheSelf,theactiveagentof change
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>> A god that has already decided everything?
      >>>>>
      >>>>> --
      >>>>> Eray Ozkural
      >>>>> http://myspace.com/arizanesil
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>> On Aug 29, 2013, at 6:10 PM, "Roger Clough" wrote:
      >>>>>
      >>>>>> Hi Eray Ozkural
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> What's creationism ?
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      >>>>>> See my Leibniz site at
      >>>>>> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> ----- Receiving the following content -----
      >>>>>> From: Eray Ozkural
      >>>>>> Receiver: ai-philosophy@yahoogroups.com
      >>>>>> Time: 2013-08-29, 10:39:35
      >>>>>> Subject: Re: [ai-philosophy] Leibniz's final causationastheSelf,theactive agentof change
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>> Do you seriously believe in creationism of this sort?
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>> Strange,
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>> --
      >>>>>>> Eray Ozkural
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>> On Aug 29, 2013, at 5:11 PM, "Roger Clough" wrote:
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>> Hi Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>> You might Consider it this way:
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>> On the seventh day of creation, God drew up a computer
      >>>>>>>> program called the preestablished harmony which precalculated
      >>>>>>>> all paths of all objects in the universe.
      >>>>>>>> It is analogous to the score of a symphony for an orchestra, each
      >>>>>>>> part played separately with none clashing (all are harmonic).
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      >>>>>>>> See my Leibniz site at
      >>>>>>>> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>> ----- Receiving the following content -----
      >>>>>>>> From: Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>>> Receiver: ai-philosophy
      >>>>>>>> Time: 2013-08-29, 09:42:03
      >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [ai-philosophy] Leibniz's final causationastheSelf,theactive agent of change
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>> Termodynamics? One needs to have technology to do something like
      >>>>>>>>> orchestration.
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>> One can derive of people around you (instinct)
      >>>>>>>>> But people fall off: (instinct)
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>> Both respectively: derive and integrate.
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>> 2013/8/29 Roger Clough
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>> **
      >>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>> Hi Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>> There's no redundancy (randomness ?) in Leibniz as everything happens
      >>>>>>>>>> according to a pre-established harmony. This foresees the contingency
      >>>>>>>>>> (statistical scatter) of real world behavior and directs objects
      >>>>>>>>>> accordingly. Kind iof like an orchestral score where all the instruments
      >>>>>>>>>> play in harmony.
      >>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      >>>>>>>>>> See my Leibniz site at
      >>>>>>>>>> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>> ----- Receiving the following content -----
      >>>>>>>>>> From: Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>>>>> Receiver: ai-philosophy
      >>>>>>>>>> Time: 2013-08-28, 04:03:43
      >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: [ai-philosophy] Leibniz's final causation
      >>>>>>>>>> astheSelf,theactive agent of change
      >>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>> A vector: having multiple means to get to an end, but the means being
      >>>>>>>>>>> redundant. This is necessary for continuity of processes (more valence'),
      >>>>>>>>>>> dimension: because of a dimension or more dimensions, you actually have a
      >>>>>>>>>>> premyth (repeat all steps (dimensions)).
      >>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>> 2013/8/28 Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>> I call it a vector.
      >>>>>>>>>>>> Body and brain has a certain complex redundant element'?
      >>>>>>>>>>>> If so: It must be especially empirical: pureness in multiple places:
      >>>>>>>>>>>> redundance?
      >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/8/28 Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>> The empirical is about pureness. IS the pureness twice(but related or
      >>>>>>>>>>>>> taken to be a myth) the equivalent of a paradox?
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/8/28 Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I note some things related to leibniz, but I find reminiscenses of it
      >>>>>>>>>> in
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>> kant; and arent others as well? (kant continues things by wolf for
      >>>>>>>>>> example
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which continue the honor of leibniz).
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>> perception, perception instead of empirical.
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/8/28 Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What is your idea about the body instead or supported redundantly by
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the brain?
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/8/27 Roger Clough
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm no holding anything back. There are however a number of my
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postings on
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my website, http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortuntely, as I said, Leibniz never wrote a magnum opus.
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So you have to start at the beginning with the Monadology,
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is inappropriately present on a Marxist site,
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>> http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/ge/leibniz.htm
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and follow up via the internet (Google on Leibniz). For example
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.iep.utm.edu/leib-met/
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/leibniz/
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Russells' book. Search amazon for texts with reasonable prices.
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's the bad news. The good news is that Leibniz
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is like a leggo toy kit, you can use what he has given us to
      >>>>>>>>>> construct
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practically anything along his lines of thought. You LEARN
      >>>>>>>>>> existence
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through Leibniz. He turns you into an explorer.
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See my Leibniz site at
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> ------------------------------------
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> ------------------------------------
      >>>>
      >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >> ------------------------------------
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >