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Re: [ai-philosophy] Leibniz'sfinalcausationastheSelf,theactive agentof change

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  • Eray Ozkural
    Aug 30, 2013 Expand Messages
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      Creationist is oblivious to synthetic life :)

      --
      Eray Ozkural
      http://myspace.com/arizanesil



      On Aug 30, 2013, at 5:26 PM, "Roger Clough"<rclough@...> wrote:

      > Hi Eray Ozkural
      >
      > No it doesn't. If moledcular biology understood life,
      > it could create life. So far no sucess.
      >
      >
      > Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      > See my Leibniz site at
      > http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >
      >
      > ----- Receiving the following content -----
      > From: Eray Ozkural
      > Receiver: ai-philosophy@yahoogroups.com
      > Time: 2013-08-30, 09:52:29
      > Subject: Re: [ai-philosophy] Leibniz'sfinalcausationastheSelf,theactive agentof change
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >> Molecular biology proves what life is, etc. Its just science.
      >>
      >> --
      >> Eray Ozkural
      >> http://myspace.com/arizanesil
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> On Aug 30, 2013, at 3:42 PM, "Roger Clough" wrote:
      >>
      >>> Hi Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>
      >>> Can you prove what life is ?
      >>> Or intelligence ?
      >>> Or consciousness ?
      >>> Or free will ?
      >>> Or subjectivity ?
      >>> Or Self ?
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      >>> See my Leibniz site at
      >>> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> ----- Receiving the following content -----
      >>> From: Justin William Zijlstra
      >>> Receiver: ai-philosophy
      >>> Time: 2013-08-30, 07:52:16
      >>> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [ai-philosophy] Leibniz'sfinalcausationastheSelf,theactive agent of change
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>> No proof no story.
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> 2013/8/30 Roger Clough
      >>>>
      >>>>> **
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Hi Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Thgere's no bridge, it's all the same stuff=Mind.
      >>>>> in which our own minds are included.
      >>>>>
      >>>>> The proof in essence is Leibniz's metaphysics.
      >>>>> You can't prove Plato either.
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      >>>>> See my Leibniz site at
      >>>>> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>> ----- Receiving the following content -----
      >>>>> From: Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>> Receiver: ai-philosophy
      >>>>> Time: 2013-08-29, 10:15:45
      >>>>> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [ai-philosophy] Leibniz's
      >>>>> finalcausationastheSelf,theactive agent of change
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>> Would you reproduce a proof with a bridge
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> 2013/8/29 Roger Clough
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>> **
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>> Hi Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>> OK, but both are material. Mind is not.
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      >>>>>>> See my Leibniz site at
      >>>>>>> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>> ----- Receiving the following content -----
      >>>>>>> From: Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>> Receiver: ai-philosophy
      >>>>>>> Time: 2013-08-29, 09:35:40
      >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [ai-philosophy] Leibniz's final
      >>>>>>> causationastheSelf,theactive agent of change
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>> Hi,
      >>>>>>>> additionally,
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>> If the body AND the brain reproduce to a related phenomenon. I chose
      >>>>> the
      >>>>>>>> word redundant because there might be related contingencies.
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>> 2013/8/28 Roger Clough
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>> **
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>> Hi Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>> If that's what you mean by redundancy, Leibniz
      >>>>>>>>> came up with his principle that identical articles cannot exist
      >>>>>>>>> except they may be identical but be elsewhere in time or
      >>>>>>>>> space.
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      >>>>>>>>> See my Leibniz site at
      >>>>>>>>> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>> ----- Receiving the following content -----
      >>>>>>>>> From: Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>>>> Receiver: ai-philosophy
      >>>>>>>>> Time: 2013-08-28, 04:19:05
      >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: [ai-philosophy] Leibniz's final causation
      >>>>>>>>> astheSelf,theactive agent of change
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>> Note at paradox.
      >>>>>>>>>> If things are pure but paradoxical.
      >>>>>>>>>> Can't we say that we talk about time? All elements spatially
      >>>>> redundant
      >>>>>>>>> seem
      >>>>>>>>>> to be a paradox. But with time it is not a question.
      >>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>> 2013/8/28 Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>> A vector: having multiple means to get to an end, but the means
      >>>>>>> being
      >>>>>>>>>>> redundant. This is necessary for continuity of processes (more
      >>>>>>>>> valence'),
      >>>>>>>>>>> dimension: because of a dimension or more dimensions, you
      >>>>> actually
      >>>>>>> have
      >>>>>>>>> a
      >>>>>>>>>>> premyth (repeat all steps (dimensions)).
      >>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>> 2013/8/28 Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>> I call it a vector.
      >>>>>>>>>>>> Body and brain has a certain complex redundant element'?
      >>>>>>>>>>>> If so: It must be especially empirical: pureness in multiple
      >>>>>>> places:
      >>>>>>>>>>>> redundance?
      >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/8/28 Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>> The empirical is about pureness. IS the pureness twice(but
      >>>>> related
      >>>>>>> or
      >>>>>>>>>>>>> taken to be a myth) the equivalent of a paradox?
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/8/28 Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I note some things related to leibniz, but I find
      >>>>> reminiscenses
      >>>>>>> of
      >>>>>>>>> it
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in kant; and arent others as well? (kant continues things by
      >>>>> wolf
      >>>>>>>>> for
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>> example which continue the honor of leibniz).
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>> perception, perception instead of empirical.
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/8/28 Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What is your idea about the body instead or supported
      >>>>>>> redundantly
      >>>>>>>>> by
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the brain?
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/8/27 Roger Clough
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Justin William Zijlstra
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm no holding anything back. There are however a number of
      >>>>> my
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postings on
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my website, http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortuntely, as I said, Leibniz never wrote a magnum opus.
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So you have to start at the beginning with the Monadology,
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is inappropriately present on a Marxist site,
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>> http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/ge/leibniz.htm
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and follow up via the internet (Google on Leibniz). For
      >>>>> example
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.iep.utm.edu/leib-met/
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/leibniz/
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Russells' book. Search amazon for texts with reasonable
      >>>>>>>>> prices.
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's the bad news. The good news is that Leibniz
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is like a leggo toy kit, you can use what he has given us to
      >>>>>>>>> construct
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practically anything along his lines of thought. You LEARN
      >>>>>>>>> existence
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through Leibniz. He turns you into an explorer.
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See my Leibniz site at
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> ------------------------------------
      >>>
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      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>
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