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18558Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [ai-philosophy]Leibniz'sfinalcausationastheSelf,theactiveagentof change

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  • Roger Clough
    Aug 30, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Justin William Zijlstra


      Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      See my Leibniz site at
      http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough


      ----- Receiving the following content -----
      From: Justin William Zijlstra
      Receiver: ai-philosophy
      Time: 2013-08-30, 10:33:05
      Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: [ai-philosophy]Leibniz'sfinalcausationastheSelf,theactiveagentof change




      >Hi, sorry.
      >To lean.
      >Couldn't you complement more directly.
      >Thank you for keeping continuity.
      >
      >
      >2013/8/30 Roger Clough
      >
      >> **
      >>
      >>
      >> Hi Justin William Zijlstra
      >>
      >> How about an english sentence with an indicative verb.
      >>
      >>
      >> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      >> See my Leibniz site at
      >> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >>
      >>
      >> ----- Receiving the following content -----
      >> From: Justin William Zijlstra
      >> Receiver: ai-philosophy
      >> Time: 2013-08-30, 10:08:12
      >> Subject: Re: Re: Re: [ai-philosophy]
      >> Leibniz'sfinalcausationastheSelf,theactiveagentof change
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> >If not or true,
      >> >It leanes'.
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >2013/8/30 Justin William Zijlstra
      >> >
      >> >> Can you do all things with classical physics tech?
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >> 2013/8/30 Roger Clough
      >> >>
      >> >>> **
      >> >>>
      >> >>>
      >> >>> Hi Justin William Zijlstra
      >> >>>
      >> >>> There is intelligence in matter and in antimatter,
      >> >>> but it only consists in ways to adhere to the
      >> >>> pre-established harmony (the roadmap).
      >> >>> The laws of physics.
      >> >>>
      >> >>> What does "Technology goes forth everywhere"
      >> >>> have to do with that ?
      >> >>>
      >> >>>
      >> >>> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      >> >>> See my Leibniz site at
      >> >>> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >> >>>
      >> >>>
      >> >>> ----- Receiving the following content -----
      >> >>> From: Justin William Zijlstra
      >> >>> Receiver: ai-philosophy
      >> >>> Time: 2013-08-30, 07:54:04
      >> >>> Subject: Re: Re: [ai-philosophy] Leibniz's
      >> >>> finalcausationastheSelf,theactiveagentof change
      >> >>>
      >> >>>
      >> >>>
      >> >>>
      >> >>> >Matter and antimatter.
      >> >>> >Intelligence in material. Technology goes forth everywhere?
      >> >>> >
      >> >>> >
      >> >>> >2013/8/30 Roger Clough
      >> >>> >
      >> >>> >> **
      >> >>> >>
      >> >>> >>
      >> >>> >> Hi Eray Ozkural
      >> >>> >>
      >> >>> >> Sorry, I had to look it up. Creationism looks like the Biblical
      >> >>> account,
      >> >>> >> which is moreorless theological. My view is more phlosophisal and I
      >> >>> leave
      >> >>> >> it open as to whether you maintain that the creator is a personal
      >> >>> being or
      >> >>> >> wheher yiou consider the creator to be Plato's One, which is
      >> >>> impersonal.
      >> >>> >> Generally I consider it to be Cosmic Mind.
      >> >>> >>
      >> >>> >> No matter which view your choose, I don't see how the universe
      >> could
      >> >>> >> have been created without some huge intelligence behind it. If you
      >> >>> >> have better explanation, I'd be curious to hear it.
      >> >>> >>
      >> >>> >>
      >> >>> >> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      >> >>> >> See my Leibniz site at
      >> >>> >> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >> >>> >>
      >> >>> >>
      >> >>> >> ----- Receiving the following content -----
      >> >>> >> From: Eray Ozkural
      >> >>> >> Receiver: ai-philosophy@yahoogroups.com
      >> >>> >> Time: 2013-08-29, 11:37:16
      >> >>> >> Subject: Re: [ai-philosophy] Leibniz's final
      >> >>> >> causationastheSelf,theactiveagentof change
      >> >>> >>
      >> >>> >>
      >> >>> >>
      >> >>> >>
      >> >>> >> >A god that has already decided everything?
      >> >>> >> >
      >> >>> >> >--
      >> >>> >> >Eray Ozkural
      >> >>> >> >http://myspace.com/arizanesil
      >> >>> >> >
      >> >>> >> >
      >> >>> >> >
      >> >>> >> >On Aug 29, 2013, at 6:10 PM, "Roger Clough" wrote:
      >> >>> >> >
      >> >>> >> >> Hi Eray Ozkural
      >> >>> >> >>
      >> >>> >> >> What's creationism ?
      >> >>> >> >>
      >> >>> >> >> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      >> >>> >> >> See my Leibniz site at
      >> >>> >> >> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >> >>> >> >>
      >> >>> >> >>
      >> >>> >> >> ----- Receiving the following content -----
      >> >>> >> >> From: Eray Ozkural
      >> >>> >> >> Receiver: ai-philosophy@yahoogroups.com
      >> >>> >> >> Time: 2013-08-29, 10:39:35
      >> >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [ai-philosophy] Leibniz's final
      >> >>> >> causationastheSelf,theactive agentof change
      >> >>> >> >>
      >> >>> >> >>
      >> >>> >> >>
      >> >>> >> >>
      >> >>> >> >>> Do you seriously believe in creationism of this sort?
      >> >>> >> >>>
      >> >>> >> >>> Strange,
      >> >>> >> >>>
      >> >>> >> >>> --
      >> >>> >> >>> Eray Ozkural
      >> >>> >> >>>
      >> >>> >> >>>
      >> >>> >> >>>
      >> >>> >> >>>
      >> >>> >> >>> On Aug 29, 2013, at 5:11 PM, "Roger Clough" wrote:
      >> >>> >> >>>
      >> >>> >> >>>> Hi Justin William Zijlstra
      >> >>> >> >>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>> You might Consider it this way:
      >> >>> >> >>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>> On the seventh day of creation, God drew up a computer
      >> >>> >> >>>> program called the preestablished harmony which precalculated
      >> >>> >> >>>> all paths of all objects in the universe.
      >> >>> >> >>>> It is analogous to the score of a symphony for an orchestra,
      >> each
      >> >>> >> >>>> part played separately with none clashing (all are harmonic).
      >> >>> >> >>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      >> >>> >> >>>> See my Leibniz site at
      >> >>> >> >>>> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >> >>> >> >>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>> ----- Receiving the following content -----
      >> >>> >> >>>> From: Justin William Zijlstra
      >> >>> >> >>>> Receiver: ai-philosophy
      >> >>> >> >>>> Time: 2013-08-29, 09:42:03
      >> >>> >> >>>> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [ai-philosophy] Leibniz's final
      >> >>> >> causationastheSelf,theactive agent of change
      >> >>> >> >>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>> Termodynamics? One needs to have technology to do something
      >> like
      >> >>> >> >>>>> orchestration.
      >> >>> >> >>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>> One can derive of people around you (instinct)
      >> >>> >> >>>>> But people fall off: (instinct)
      >> >>> >> >>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>> Both respectively: derive and integrate.
      >> >>> >> >>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>> 2013/8/29 Roger Clough
      >> >>> >> >>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> **
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> Hi Justin William Zijlstra
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> There's no redundancy (randomness ?) in Leibniz as
      >> everything
      >> >>> >> happens
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> according to a pre-established harmony. This foresees the
      >> >>> >> contingency
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> (statistical scatter) of real world behavior and directs
      >> >>> objects
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> accordingly. Kind iof like an orchestral score where all the
      >> >>> >> instruments
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> play in harmony.
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> See my Leibniz site at
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> ----- Receiving the following content -----
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> From: Justin William Zijlstra
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> Receiver: ai-philosophy
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> Time: 2013-08-28, 04:03:43
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: [ai-philosophy] Leibniz's final
      >> >>> causation
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> astheSelf,theactive agent of change
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>> A vector: having multiple means to get to an end, but the
      >> >>> means
      >> >>> >> being
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>> redundant. This is necessary for continuity of processes
      >> (more
      >> >>> >> valence'),
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>> dimension: because of a dimension or more dimensions, you
      >> >>> actually
      >> >>> >> have a
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>> premyth (repeat all steps (dimensions)).
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>> 2013/8/28 Justin William Zijlstra
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> I call it a vector.
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> Body and brain has a certain complex redundant element'?
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> If so: It must be especially empirical: pureness in
      >> multiple
      >> >>> >> places:
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> redundance?
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> 2013/8/28 Justin William Zijlstra
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> The empirical is about pureness. IS the pureness
      >> twice(but
      >> >>> >> related or
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> taken to be a myth) the equivalent of a paradox?
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> 2013/8/28 Justin William Zijlstra
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> I note some things related to leibniz, but I find
      >> >>> reminiscenses
      >> >>> >> of it
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> in
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> kant; and arent others as well? (kant continues things
      >> by
      >> >>> wolf
      >> >>> >> for
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> example
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> which continue the honor of leibniz).
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> perception, perception instead of empirical.
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> 2013/8/28 Justin William Zijlstra
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> What is your idea about the body instead or supported
      >> >>> >> redundantly by
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> the brain?
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> 2013/8/27 Roger Clough
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> **
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Justin William Zijlstra
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm no holding anything back. There are however a
      >> number
      >> >>> of
      >> >>> >> my
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> postings on
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> my website,
      >> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortuntely, as I said, Leibniz never wrote a magnum
      >> >>> opus.
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> So you have to start at the beginning with the
      >> >>> Monadology,
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> which is inappropriately present on a Marxist site,
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>
      >> >>> >>
      >> >>>
      >> http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/ge/leibniz.htm
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> and follow up via the internet (Google on Leibniz).
      >> For
      >> >>> >> example
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.iep.utm.edu/leib-met/
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/leibniz/
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> and Russells' book. Search amazon for texts with
      >> >>> reasonable
      >> >>> >> prices.
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> That's the bad news. The good news is that Leibniz
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> is like a leggo toy kit, you can use what he has given
      >> us
      >> >>> to
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> construct
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> practically anything along his lines of thought. You
      >> >>> LEARN
      >> >>> >> >>>>>> existence
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> through Leibniz. He turns you into an explorer.
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> See my Leibniz site at
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>> ------------------------------------
      >> >>> >> >>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >> >>> >> >>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>>
      >> >>> >> >>>
      >> >>> >> >>
      >> >>> >> >>
      >> >>> >> >> ------------------------------------
      >> >>> >> >>
      >> >>> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >> >>> >> >>
      >> >>> >> >>
      >> >>> >> >>
      >> >>> >> >
      >> >>> >>
      >> >>> >>
      >> >>> >>
      >> >>> >
      >> >>>
      >> >>>
      >> >>>
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
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