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Re: [agileDatabases] Re: Agile Data Governance

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  • Andrew Gregovich
    Hi Jim The first article doesn t make sense to me. I find it hard to believe that people start developing ad-hoc (i.e. unintentional) denormalized database
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 30, 2008
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      Hi Jim

      The first article doesn't make sense to me. I find it hard to believe that people start developing ad-hoc (i.e. unintentional) denormalized database schemas and that it's an acceptable practice in the agile community. 3NF is so simple to do and should be pretty much anyone's second nature.

      I remember, back in university, the whole concept of 1-3NF normalization was quite strange to me - I would always think of any ERD first in 3NF intuitively. Once you've identified your uniqueness and reference rules, it all lays out very naturally.

      Andrew

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: jim_viveralli <James.Viveralli@...>
      To: agileDatabases@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 5:55:33 AM
      Subject: [agileDatabases] Re: Agile Data Governance














      Scott



      I look forward to seeing Adrian's experience with successful data

      outcomes using Agile.



      Unfortunately, many projects are deemed a success either using

      Waterfall or Agile based on the application working. The data folks

      are then left to pick up the pieces when the customer wants to

      actually use the data. (See Larry Burns article in TDAN:

      http://www.tdan com/view- articles/ 6121)



      I admit I have learned a lot about Agile after posting to this

      site. Much of what I knew about Agile was based on what I heard

      from my peers. I like your article "Whence Data Management":

      http://www.ddj com/architect/ 193104893? cid=Ambysoft

      where you talk about the need for developers and data professionals

      to understand each others needs. I'm hoping readers of this board

      will post to mpo_discuss@ yahoogroups. com. Many data professionals

      monitor that site.



      Let the understanding begin.



      Jim



      --- In agileDatabases@ yahoogroups. com, Scott Ambler

      <scottwambler@ ...> wrote:

      >

      >

      > --- "Viveralli, James"

      > <James.Viveralli@ ...> wrote:

      >

      > > My name is Jim Viveralli. I am a Data Architect

      > > responsible for our Data

      > > Governance initiative and metadata repository

      > > solution.

      > >

      >

      > In the February issue of Cutter's Architecture

      > Journal, which will hopefully be available in the next

      > week or so in print and online, I've written in detail

      > about data architecture, agility, cultural issues, and

      > lean data governance. The governance material is

      > based on my more detailed writings about governance

      > from

      > http://www.ambysoft .com/onlineWriti ngs.html# Governance

      >

      >

      > >

      > >

      > > I have initiated a discussion about Agile

      > > Methodologies and the impact

      > > on data governance and metadata presentation at

      > > mpo_discuss@ yahoogroups. com It was suggested I

      > > pose a similar question

      > > to this group. While it is true that either the

      > > Waterfall approach or

      > > Agile methodologies done improperly will result in

      > > incorrect or

      > > misleading metadata, there seems to be a notion

      > > (right or wrong) that

      > > Agile methodologies have more potential to skip over

      > > necessary

      > > documentation.

      >

      > Necessary is in the eye of the beholder and the

      > decision to invest in it is in the hands of your

      > stakeholders, at least in the agile world. As I

      > discuss at

      >

      http://www.agilemod eling.com/ essays/agileDocu mentationBestPra ctices.h

      tm

      > you need to be able to justify the creation of your

      > work products. Metadata collection, although really

      > popular amongst many data professionals, often proves

      > to be very hard to justify. The promises of metadata

      > efforts often don't materialize, or take so long to

      > materialize that the effort gets scrapped. Larrissa

      > Moss had a wonderful writeup about this another other

      > problems faced by MDM efforts in the Cutter special

      > issue about this a few months ago. See

      > http://www.cutter com/offers/ mdm.html for that special

      > issue and

      > http://www.agiledat a.org/essays/ masterDataManage ment.html

      > for some of my own thoughts.

      >

      >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > > The test is really at the end of a project

      > > (regardless of the

      > > methodology used).

      >

      > Actually, the test should really be throughout the

      > project because if you're going to collect and use

      > metadata effectively you will need to do so

      > throughout.

      >

      > > Does anyone have success stories

      > > using Agile

      > > Methodologies where a project was deemed a success

      > > and the business and

      > > technical metadata was available and accurate?

      > > (And, spreadsheets don't

      > > count.)

      >

      > Why not? That might be the only viable tool available

      > to people in smaller organizations, or in

      > organizations where you're just getting your

      > governance efforts going. Different people are in

      > different situations, we need to be flexible.

      >

      > - Scott

      >

      > Scott W. Ambler

      > Practice Leader Agile Development, IBM Methods Group

      > http://www.ibm com/rational/ bios/ambler. html

      > Agile at Scale: http://www.ibm com/developerwor ks/blogs/ page/ambler

      >

      >

      > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!

      >

      > http://www.flickr com/gift/

      >














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    • Scott Ambler
      ... Agreed. This issue is that the DM crowd have a fair bit of work to do in order to change their strategies to fit into modern development. We ve had the
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 1, 2008
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        --- jim_viveralli <James.Viveralli@...>
        wrote:

        > As I
        > said before, if data management was built into
        > project life cycle
        > regardless if it's agile or waterfall then we don't
        > need
        > extra 'governace' or bureaucracy.

        Agreed. This issue is that the DM crowd have a fair
        bit of work to do in order to change their strategies
        to fit into modern development. We've had the DM tail
        try to wag the IT dog for several decades now and it
        simply hasn't worked out for the vast majority of
        organizations. Unfortunately there is very little
        coherent thought leadership in that community right
        now.

        - Scott

        Scott W. Ambler
        Practice Leader Agile Development, IBM Methods Group
        http://www.ibm.com/rational/bios/ambler.html
        Agile at Scale: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/ambler


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      • Max Guernsey, III
        ... Data ... impact ... question ... or ... that ... and ... don t ... I kind of have an example. I worked on a team that was trying to make a Lean-Agile
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 3, 2008
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          --- In agileDatabases@yahoogroups.com, "Viveralli, James"
          <James.Viveralli@...> wrote:
          >
          > My name is Jim Viveralli. I am a Data Architect responsible for our
          Data
          > Governance initiative and metadata repository solution.
          >
          >
          >
          > I have initiated a discussion about Agile Methodologies and the
          impact
          > on data governance and metadata presentation at
          > mpo_discuss@yahoogroups.com It was suggested I pose a similar
          question
          > to this group. While it is true that either the Waterfall approach
          or
          > Agile methodologies done improperly will result in incorrect or
          > misleading metadata, there seems to be a notion (right or wrong)
          that
          > Agile methodologies have more potential to skip over necessary
          > documentation.
          >
          >
          >
          > The test is really at the end of a project (regardless of the
          > methodology used). Does anyone have success stories using Agile
          > Methodologies where a project was deemed a success and the business
          and
          > technical metadata was available and accurate? (And, spreadsheets
          don't
          > count.)
          >
          >
          >
          > Jim
          >

          I kind of have an example. I worked on a team that was trying to
          make a Lean-Agile transition. We used a methodology that was truly
          test-driven; even with the structure of our data.

          The transition for that team was terminated because many members were
          resistent. Certain members of the team, however, went on to found
          another team within the same organization. They carried with them
          Agility and Lean. They were able to deploy all portions of their
          system (including their database) iteratively. They have, since I
          left, been deemed a success as have the Agile methods and Lean
          principles.

          If anyone's interested in more detail about either the team I was on
          or the resulting team that was deemed a success, I'd be glad to
          elaborate but I don't want to just spout trivia.

          Max Guernsey, III
          http://www.hexsw.com
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