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Re: [agile-usability] Origins of user stories

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  • Adrian Howard
    Hey William, ... That s an interesting statement to me. Could you expand upon it? Adrian -- http://quietstars.com adrianh@quietstars.com
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 27 4:38 AM
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      Hey William,

      On 27 March 2013 11:34, William Hudson <william.hudson@...> wrote:
      > I’d be really interested to see some of the original user stories if
      > possible. From a UCD perspective the shift to roles is not really a benefit
      > to users so it would be good to plot that development.

      That's an interesting statement to me. Could you expand upon it?

      Adrian
      --
      http://quietstars.com adrianh@... twitter.com/adrianh
      t. +44 (0)7752 419080 skype adrianjohnhoward pinboard.in/u:adrianh
    • William Hudson
      A role is a systemizing concept so really makes no allowance for needs of the individual. Using it to represent users glosses over many of the inter-role
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 27 5:03 AM
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        A role is a systemizing concept so really makes no allowance for needs of
        the individual. Using it to represent users glosses over many of the
        inter-role issues like role ambiguity, role incompatibility, role conflict
        and so on. Of course, we have Ivar Jacobson and use cases to thank for
        roles, and they're not entirely without merit, but someone filling role A in
        one context of use may have quite different needs to someone filling the
        same role in a different context.

        Regards,

        William


        -----Original Message-----
        From: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:agile-usability@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Howard
        Sent: 27 March 2013 11:39
        To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [agile-usability] Origins of user stories

        Hey William,

        On 27 March 2013 11:34, William Hudson <william.hudson@...> wrote:
        > I'd be really interested to see some of the original user stories if
        > possible. From a UCD perspective the shift to roles is not really a
        > benefit to users so it would be good to plot that development.

        That's an interesting statement to me. Could you expand upon it?

        Adrian
        --
        http://quietstars.com adrianh@... twitter.com/adrianh
        t. +44 (0)7752 419080 skype adrianjohnhoward pinboard.in/u:adrianh


        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Adrian Howard
        I d question whether the role slot in user stories often gets used in that way. The use-case role and the user story role tend to be used fairly
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 27 5:10 AM
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          I'd question whether the role slot in user stories often gets used in
          that way. The use-case "role" and the user story "role" tend to be
          used fairly differently in my experience.

          We hit the same name - different usage problem again.

          They're normally much closer to customer archetypes / persona in my
          experience (indeed most agile ux folk I know who adopt the story
          format slot persona into the role hole).

          Cheers,

          Adrian

          On 27 March 2013 12:03, William Hudson <william.hudson@...> wrote:
          > A role is a systemizing concept so really makes no allowance for needs of
          > the individual. Using it to represent users glosses over many of the
          > inter-role issues like role ambiguity, role incompatibility, role conflict
          > and so on. Of course, we have Ivar Jacobson and use cases to thank for
          > roles, and they're not entirely without merit, but someone filling role A in
          > one context of use may have quite different needs to someone filling the
          > same role in a different context.
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > William
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:agile-usability@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Howard
          > Sent: 27 March 2013 11:39
          > To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [agile-usability] Origins of user stories
          >
          > Hey William,
          >
          > On 27 March 2013 11:34, William Hudson <william.hudson@...> wrote:
          >> I'd be really interested to see some of the original user stories if
          >> possible. From a UCD perspective the shift to roles is not really a
          >> benefit to users so it would be good to plot that development.
          >
          > That's an interesting statement to me. Could you expand upon it?
          >
          > Adrian
          > --
          > http://quietstars.com adrianh@... twitter.com/adrianh
          > t. +44 (0)7752 419080 skype adrianjohnhoward pinboard.in/u:adrianh
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >



          --
          http://quietstars.com adrianh@... twitter.com/adrianh
          t. +44 (0)7752 419080 skype adrianjohnhoward pinboard.in/u:adrianh
        • William Hudson
          Agilists who know little or nothing about usability/UCD do try to take roles literally. I was talking with a client just a couple of weeks ago who pointed this
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 27 5:22 AM
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            Agilists who know little or nothing about usability/UCD do try to take roles
            literally. I was talking with a client just a couple of weeks ago who
            pointed this out as a problem with their introduction of UX design.

            Regards,

            William


            -----Original Message-----
            From: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:agile-usability@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Howard
            Sent: 27 March 2013 12:11
            To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [agile-usability] Origins of user stories

            I'd question whether the role slot in user stories often gets used in that
            way. The use-case "role" and the user story "role" tend to be used fairly
            differently in my experience.

            We hit the same name - different usage problem again.

            They're normally much closer to customer archetypes / persona in my
            experience (indeed most agile ux folk I know who adopt the story format slot
            persona into the role hole).

            Cheers,

            Adrian

            [snipped]
          • Adrian Howard
            ... My experiences differ. It does happen - of course - but my experiences of teams, even those without UX input, is that the roles are more often treated as
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 27 5:29 AM
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              On 27 March 2013 12:22, William Hudson <william.hudson@...> wrote:
              > Agilists who know little or nothing about usability/UCD do try to take roles
              > literally. I was talking with a client just a couple of weeks ago who
              > pointed this out as a problem with their introduction of UX design.

              My experiences differ.

              It does happen - of course - but my experiences of teams, even those
              without UX input, is that the roles are more often treated as market
              segments / archetypes / etc.

              They're certainly seem to treated much more generally than use-case type roles.

              Possibly you're seeing teams who are primarily transferring from
              use-cases to stories? In those situations it's certainly a common
              problem.

              Cheers,

              Adrian
              --
              http://quietstars.com adrianh@... twitter.com/adrianh
              t. +44 (0)7752 419080 skype adrianjohnhoward pinboard.in/u:adrianh
            • Larry Constantine
              ... the individual. Using it to represent users glosses over many of the inter-role issues like role ambiguity, role incompatibility, role conflict and so on.
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 27 6:05 AM
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                William said:

                > A role is a systemizing concept so really makes no allowance for needs of
                the individual. Using it to represent users glosses over many of the
                inter-role issues like role ambiguity, role incompatibility, role conflict
                and so on. Of course, we have Ivar Jacobson and use cases to thank for
                roles, and they're not entirely without merit, but someone filling role A in
                one context of use may have quite different needs to someone filling the
                same role in a different context. <

                The user role concept traces back to contributions from Rebecca Wirfs-Brock
                and was developed and elaborated in usage-centered design and later
                model-driven activity-centered design (Constantine and Lockwood). A role is
                a relationship between users and a system or service and is defined (ala
                Wirfs-Brock) by a characteristic set of needs, expectations, interests, and
                responsibilities in relation to the system/service and in the context of the
                activity in which the user is participating. As such, a user role focuses
                precisely on those issues most salient to effective interaction design (see
                my chapter in The Persona Lifecycle for persuasive support). That it blurs
                or compresses "individual differences" is precisely why it is a more compact
                and efficient model, particularly for agile design and development.
                Individual incumbents in a role vary immensely; the role itself is are far
                less variable. Individuals are extremely complicated; roles are far simpler.
                A well-formulated role absolutely does make allowance for the needs of the
                individual, but not as an individual, not as a person, but rather as an
                individual in a particular activity and in a particular relationship to a
                designed artifact.

                The critical issue in modeling for agile IxD/UxD is to model only what is
                most important to model, compactly and concisely, to focus on what is likely
                to yield the biggest payoff in guidance toward an effective design in the
                least amount of time. The templated user role profiles employed in
                usage-centered design and human activity modeling do just that,
                concentrating the modeler/designer's attention on those things that are most
                likely to directly impact and shape the design.

                The issues you mention-role ambiguity, role incompatibility, role
                conflict-are interesting from an intellectual standpoint and often play some
                part in a complete analysis of human activity (we incorporate them in our
                application of activity-theory to educational research, for instance), but
                the relationship of the actor in role to the designed artifact is far more
                relevant to designing that system or service. Inter-role issues that may be
                important in organizational dynamics or social psychology are typically far
                less central to getting the design right.

                In the most recent incarnation of the user role profile that we use in
                model-driven agile design (not yet written up), we have reduced the template
                further to include just 3 categories (ORB): Orientation, Responsibilities,
                and Background. Orientation and attitude of the actor in role to focal
                activities and to the designed artifact; Responsibilities of the actor in
                role within focal activities and with the designed artifact; Background
                characteristics expected in relation to use of the designed artifact within
                focal activities. This is a vast simplification from the concept of role in
                activity theory and role theory, but it zeroes in on the stuff that is most
                likely to make a difference, covering the bases on a single index card.

                Modeling efficiency and design leverage are behind most of my work and the
                usage/activity-centered design community. It is why we favor concise role
                profiles over the decorative embellishments of personas, why essential use
                cases win out over traditional concrete use cases and scenarios.

                Psychologists and humanists can plead for attention to the individual, but,
                as Don Norman and I pointed out some years ago, that is precisely the
                problem. It is the focus on humans, on individuals, that diverts our
                attention from the more important focus on what people are doing and trying
                to do, that is, on activity as mediated by designed artifacts. This badly
                needed shift in focus was behind my development of human activity modeling
                (with Don's encouragement and contributions) and then its adaptation to
                agile design and development. We drive AD&D by activity models not to
                capture a complete analysis embodied in those models but to move as quickly
                and efficiently as possible toward good designs. That means concentrating on
                roles and activities and glossing over stuff that is less critical to speedy
                solutions.

                Prof. Larry Constantine, IDSA, ACM Fellow
                Universidade da Madeira | Madeira Interactive Technologies Institute
              • William Hudson
                Thanks, Larry. Very interesting. Do you know when Rebecca first started talking about roles? I have a paper here from Jacobson dated 1987 that describes their
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 27 7:09 AM
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                  Thanks, Larry. Very interesting. Do you know when Rebecca first started
                  talking about roles? I have a paper here from Jacobson dated 1987 that
                  describes their use in OO development.

                  BTW, I wasn't suggesting that designers of information systems should
                  thoroughly research roles and their interrelationships. My point is more
                  that roles are not a very useful focus of attention in many systems.

                  Regards,

                  William


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:agile-usability@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Constantine
                  Sent: 27 March 2013 13:06
                  To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [agile-usability] Origins of user stories

                  William said:

                  > A role is a systemizing concept so really makes no allowance for needs
                  > of
                  the individual. Using it to represent users glosses over many of the
                  inter-role issues like role ambiguity, role incompatibility, role conflict
                  and so on. Of course, we have Ivar Jacobson and use cases to thank for
                  roles, and they're not entirely without merit, but someone filling role A in
                  one context of use may have quite different needs to someone filling the
                  same role in a different context. <

                  The user role concept traces back to contributions from Rebecca Wirfs-Brock
                  and was developed and elaborated in usage-centered design and later
                  model-driven activity-centered design (Constantine and Lockwood). A role is
                  a relationship between users and a system or service and is defined (ala
                  Wirfs-Brock) by a characteristic set of needs, expectations, interests, and
                  responsibilities in relation to the system/service and in the context of the
                  activity in which the user is participating. As such, a user role focuses
                  precisely on those issues most salient to effective interaction design (see
                  my chapter in The Persona Lifecycle for persuasive support). That it blurs
                  or compresses "individual differences" is precisely why it is a more compact
                  and efficient model, particularly for agile design and development.
                  Individual incumbents in a role vary immensely; the role itself is are far
                  less variable. Individuals are extremely complicated; roles are far simpler.
                  A well-formulated role absolutely does make allowance for the needs of the
                  individual, but not as an individual, not as a person, but rather as an
                  individual in a particular activity and in a particular relationship to a
                  designed artifact.

                  [snipped]
                • Gerard Meszaros
                  ... Yes, they used cards for all sorts of purposes including organizing presentations by putting each thing they wanted to talk about onto a card. Easy to
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 27 8:57 AM
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                    On 3/26/2013 10:03 PM, Adam Sroka wrote:
                    > I can't remember who said it or the exact context, but I remember hearing that
                    > Ward and Kent really liked using cards for a variety of different things and
                    > that when stories came along it was just a natural fit.
                    >
                    >

                    Yes, they used cards for all sorts of purposes including organizing
                    presentations by putting each thing they wanted to talk about onto a card. Easy
                    to reorganize the content simply by moving the card. Other agilist/OO people
                    have adopted this style of presentation "notes" most notably (Uncle) Bob Martin
                    (who rarely uses visuals in presentation) and Ron Jeffries (another CCC team
                    member.)

                    Gerard

                    --
                    Gerard Meszaros
                    Lean/Agile Coach/Mentor/Trainer
                    http://www.gerardmeszaros.com
                    1-403-827-2967

                    Author of the Jolt Productivity Award winning book "xUnit Test Patterns -
                    Refactoring Test Code" and winner of the "Programming with the Stars"
                    competition at Agile 2009. Learn more at http://xunitpatterns.com/index.html
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