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Re: [agile-usability] Re: Question_Agile Process_ UIE Virtual Seminar

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  • William Pietri
    ... Well, I m not sure Agile says anything on its own, but if we take Scrum or Extreme Programming, they certainly say that the product side of the house needs
    Message 1 of 64 , Mar 10, 2009
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      Srinivas Manda wrote:
      > Mike, we as a team are still trying to understand Agile, and we are working based on how easy it is for us that suites our working model.
      >
      > Agile says that we (designer, dev, testing etc) should be at one place and work on stories that team buys for that iteration
      >
      > But in realistic how can that happen?
      >

      Well, I'm not sure Agile says anything on its own, but if we take Scrum
      or Extreme Programming, they certainly say that the product side of the
      house needs to know enough about a story once development starts that
      they can answer all the questions developers might have. That means they
      tend to work ahead of development some.

      In my view, "design" straddles the product management / development
      divide. Consider Jesse James Garrett's "Elements of User Experience":

      http://www.jjg.net/elements/pdf/elements.pdf

      The topic of user needs and site objectives and functional specs are,
      from the Agile perspective, clearly part of the product manager's world,
      although it's an area some designers see as theirs, too. At the other
      end, the skin of an app is executed by developers, with the involvement
      of designers varying from place to place. In between,
      the interaction design, the information design, the interface design,
      and the visual design all sound a lot like things designers do.


      So in practice, I'd say that the more high-level any given design
      activity, the more likely it is to take place outside of the iteration
      framework. The right balance varies from shop to shop, but you should
      seek out the minimum amount of up-front design work that allows stories
      to complete smoothly.

      If you want more info, Amanda Willoughby and I did a talk on this very
      topic. We went around to a number of places (including Google and
      YouTube) and took a look at how they actually do design in an agile way.
      Our talk is about what we saw, and what we think works well. It's
      called "Meshing Gears" and you can find it here:

      http://pivotallabs.com/talks

      The downloadable video and MP3 are here:

      http://assets.pivotallabs.com/talks/10-22-2008_Meshing-Gears_Amanda-W_William-P.mov
      http://assets.pivotallabs.com/talks/10-22-2008_Meshing-Gears_Amanda-W_William-P.mp3

      William
    • juliebooth36
      At Con-way, we have the luxury (right now) of being in the same geographic location. But there are only two of us UX types... We work very closely with the BA
      Message 64 of 64 , Oct 19, 2009
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        At Con-way, we have the luxury (right now) of being in the same geographic location. But there are only two of us UX types... We work very closely with the BA and the Developers on the teams and have established a process where we participate in stand-up as much as possible and have a weekly revolving door ux session on whatever is testable. I posted a chart and a quick explanation about how we are using Mingle to manage that here:
        http://www.uxsuccess.com/2009/10/ux-and-agile-co-mingling.html



        --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Srinivas Manda" <laksinu@...> wrote:
        >
        > Mike, we as a team are still trying to understand Agile, and we are working based on how easy it is for us that suites our working model.
        >
        > Agile says that we (designer, dev, testing etc) should be at one place and work on stories that team buys for that iteration
        >
        > But in realistic how can that happen?
        >
        > Say everyone is at one place for 3 weeks and start working on features and as a UX designer I should design the feature and get that validated with users and get a feedback from them .. But if we follow agile then the dev team should be boiling the code before I get the results ...if they do coding and if I get feedback from the users to change some design then should the dev need to recode it ?
        >
        > Please comment on this
        >
        >
        > --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dwyer" <mdwyer@> wrote:
        > >
        > > WHOA! Look dude, Ron was being very nice. We are not talking about
        > > letting developers in to the initial design meetings. Agile is about
        > > everyone being engaged. You may have been an UI or UX Prima Donna in the
        > > conventional world but in the Agile sphere, you are a member of a team, each
        > > of whom brings their own unique skills that you, in all likelihood lack as
        > > you have chosen to be a UI wizard. Here is the secret message inside the
        > > Agile bottle. Users don't buy software, or UI or databases or any of the
        > > stuff we love to work with. Users buy value and it is our combined job to
        > > work with the users to make sure we are all on the same page.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > So if you are going to be Agile, understand this. Your skills are no more
        > > or less valuable than the most junior newbie tester or coder or BA. It is
        > > the sum impact of the team that delivers.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > If this bothers you or you think that your world is an exception, please
        > > look up the word Scrumbutt or Cragile and start using it to refer to what
        > > you do.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Mike Dwyer
        > > Principal, Agile Coach
        > >
        > > BigVisible Solutions
        > > url: http://www.bigvisible.com <http://www.bigvisible.com/>
        > >
        > > cell: (978) 376-4422
        > >
        > > email: mdwyer@ <mailto:asingh@>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > From: Srinivas Manda [mailto:laksinu@]
        > > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 2:18 PM
        > > To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: [agile-usability] Re: Question_Agile Process_ UIE Virtual Seminar
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Thanks everyone for your input... will make it as a mandit to include
        > > developers in my initial design meetings and will say this will be a
        > > roadblock if not included...
        > >
        > > Thanks Everyone again..
        > >
        > > -laksinu
        > >
        > > --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
        > > <mailto:agile-usability%40yahoogroups.com> , Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@>
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hello, Srinivas. On Tuesday, March 10, 2009, at 8:51:00 AM, you
        > > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > I agree to what you say , I would love to have Developers / Designers to
        > > > > be in the same team but it is not possible
        > > >
        > > > Why? Are some of them in prison?
        > > >
        > > > > once example as i said earlier ... if developers and designer, BA's are
        > > > > working at the same time and if the screen design is done ... and we
        > > > > test the design with the USERS ... it is not really possible to get
        > > > > feedback from the USERS in 2 weeks or so.. by the time we get the
        > > > > feedback from USERS developers are done with there coding ... and if we
        > > > > have some changes .. developers need to change the code ...
        > > >
        > > > Yes. This is an obstacle. You must remove it.
        > > >
        > > > Ron Jeffries
        > > > www.XProgramming.com
        > > > www.xprogramming.com/blog
        > > > Attend our CSM Plus Course!
        > > > http://hendricksonxp.com/index.php?option=com_eventlist
        > > <http://hendricksonxp.com/index.php?option=com_eventlist&Itemid=28>
        > > &Itemid=28
        > > > Thousands of years ago, the first man discovered how to make fire.
        > > > He was probably burned at the stake he had taught his brothers to
        > > > light - Howard Roark (The Fountainhead, Ayn Rand)
        > > >
        > >
        >
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