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RE: [agile-usability] Re: Question_Agile Process_ UIE Virtual Seminar

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  • Mike Dwyer
    First why is it that the people would not stay in the same place? Second how often have you seen this happen. You desing a UI and the user love it, the
    Message 1 of 64 , Mar 10 5:28 PM
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      First why is it that the people would not stay in the same place?

      Second how often have you seen this happen.  You desing a UI and the user love it,  the developers provide code and full fuinctionality and the users tell you they have not gotten what they wanted?

      Finally if you are getting feedback and taking the time to do a new design before getting the developers involved, how long does it take the users to tell you that it isn’t quite what they wanted?

       

      B y you working directly with the developers and the users everyone  - including the users get to see the procud as it is developed.  If you start with the very basics of what the users want they will change their minds, but that is OK because much of what they now want will be based on what they have working.  Thiis way the usersw are being guided by the product as it is finished and they will focus on what they need and not what they think will be cool.  You end up with a product working that always meets the current needs of the user and continues to be refined to better meet the users needs.

       

       

      Mike Dwyer
      Principal, Agile Coach

      BigVisible Solutions
      url:    http://www.bigvisible.com

      cell:   (978) 376-4422

      email: mdwyer@...

       

       

      From: Srinivas Manda [mailto:laksinu@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:22 PM
      To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [agile-usability] Re: Question_Agile Process_ UIE Virtual Seminar

       

      Mike, we as a team are still trying to understand Agile, and we are working based on how easy it is for us that suites our working model.

      Agile says that we (designer, dev, testing etc) should be at one place and work on stories that team buys for that iteration

      But in realistic how can that happen?

      Say everyone is at one place for 3 weeks and start working on features and as a UX designer I should design the feature and get that validated with users and get a feedback from them .. But if we follow agile then the dev team should be boiling the code before I get the results ...if they do coding and if I get feedback from the users to change some design then should the dev need to recode it ?

      Please comment on this

      --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dwyer" <mdwyer@...> wrote:

      >
      > WHOA! Look dude, Ron was being very nice. We are not talking about
      > letting developers in to the initial design meetings. Agile is about
      > everyone being engaged. You may have been an UI or UX Prima Donna in the
      > conventional world but in the Agile sphere, you are a member of a team,
      each
      > of whom brings their own unique skills that you, in all likelihood lack as
      > you have chosen to be a UI wizard. Here is the secret message inside the
      > Agile bottle. Users don't buy software, or UI or databases or any of the
      > stuff we love to work with. Users buy value and it is our combined job to
      > work with the users to make sure we are all on the same page.
      >
      >
      >
      > So if you are going to be Agile, understand this. Your skills are no more
      > or less valuable than the most junior newbie tester or coder or BA. It is
      > the sum impact of the team that delivers.
      >
      >
      >
      > If this bothers you or you think that your world is an exception, please
      > look up the word Scrumbutt or Cragile and start using it to refer to what
      > you do.
      >
      >
      >
      > Mike Dwyer
      > Principal, Agile Coach
      >
      > BigVisible Solutions
      > url: http://www.bigvisible.com
      <http://www.bigvisible.com/>
      >
      > cell: (978) 376-4422
      >
      > email: mdwyer@... <mailto:asingh@...>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > From: Srinivas Manda [mailto:laksinu@...]
      > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 2:18 PM
      > To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [agile-usability] Re: Question_Agile Process_ UIE Virtual Seminar
      >
      >
      >
      > Thanks everyone for your input... will make it as a mandit to include
      > developers in my initial design meetings and will say this will be a
      > roadblock if not included...
      >
      > Thanks Everyone again..
      >
      > -laksinu
      >
      > --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:agile-usability%40yahoogroups.com> , Ron Jeffries
      <ronjeffries@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello, Srinivas. On Tuesday, March 10, 2009, at 8:51:00 AM, you
      > > wrote:
      > >
      > > > I agree to what you say , I would love to have Developers /
      Designers to
      > > > be in the same team but it is not possible
      > >
      > > Why? Are some of them in prison?
      > >
      > > > once example as i said earlier ... if developers and designer,
      BA's are
      > > > working at the same time and if the screen design is done ...
      and we
      > > > test the design with the USERS ... it is not really possible to
      get
      > > > feedback from the USERS in 2 weeks or so.. by the time we get
      the
      > > > feedback from USERS developers are done with there coding ...
      and if we
      > > > have some changes .. developers need to change the code ...
      > >
      > > Yes. This is an obstacle. You must remove it.
      > >
      > > Ron Jeffries
      > > www.XProgramming.com
      > > www.xprogramming.com/blog
      > > Attend our CSM Plus Course!
      > > http://hendricksonxp.com/index.php?option=com_eventlist
      > <
      href="http://hendricksonxp.com/index.php?option=com_eventlist&Itemid=28">http://hendricksonxp.com/index.php?option=com_eventlist&Itemid=28>
      > &Itemid=28
      > > Thousands of years ago, the first man discovered how to make fire.
      > > He was probably burned at the stake he had taught his brothers to
      > > light - Howard Roark (The Fountainhead, Ayn Rand)
      > >
      >

    • juliebooth36
      At Con-way, we have the luxury (right now) of being in the same geographic location. But there are only two of us UX types... We work very closely with the BA
      Message 64 of 64 , Oct 19, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        At Con-way, we have the luxury (right now) of being in the same geographic location. But there are only two of us UX types... We work very closely with the BA and the Developers on the teams and have established a process where we participate in stand-up as much as possible and have a weekly revolving door ux session on whatever is testable. I posted a chart and a quick explanation about how we are using Mingle to manage that here:
        http://www.uxsuccess.com/2009/10/ux-and-agile-co-mingling.html



        --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Srinivas Manda" <laksinu@...> wrote:
        >
        > Mike, we as a team are still trying to understand Agile, and we are working based on how easy it is for us that suites our working model.
        >
        > Agile says that we (designer, dev, testing etc) should be at one place and work on stories that team buys for that iteration
        >
        > But in realistic how can that happen?
        >
        > Say everyone is at one place for 3 weeks and start working on features and as a UX designer I should design the feature and get that validated with users and get a feedback from them .. But if we follow agile then the dev team should be boiling the code before I get the results ...if they do coding and if I get feedback from the users to change some design then should the dev need to recode it ?
        >
        > Please comment on this
        >
        >
        > --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dwyer" <mdwyer@> wrote:
        > >
        > > WHOA! Look dude, Ron was being very nice. We are not talking about
        > > letting developers in to the initial design meetings. Agile is about
        > > everyone being engaged. You may have been an UI or UX Prima Donna in the
        > > conventional world but in the Agile sphere, you are a member of a team, each
        > > of whom brings their own unique skills that you, in all likelihood lack as
        > > you have chosen to be a UI wizard. Here is the secret message inside the
        > > Agile bottle. Users don't buy software, or UI or databases or any of the
        > > stuff we love to work with. Users buy value and it is our combined job to
        > > work with the users to make sure we are all on the same page.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > So if you are going to be Agile, understand this. Your skills are no more
        > > or less valuable than the most junior newbie tester or coder or BA. It is
        > > the sum impact of the team that delivers.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > If this bothers you or you think that your world is an exception, please
        > > look up the word Scrumbutt or Cragile and start using it to refer to what
        > > you do.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Mike Dwyer
        > > Principal, Agile Coach
        > >
        > > BigVisible Solutions
        > > url: http://www.bigvisible.com <http://www.bigvisible.com/>
        > >
        > > cell: (978) 376-4422
        > >
        > > email: mdwyer@ <mailto:asingh@>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > From: Srinivas Manda [mailto:laksinu@]
        > > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 2:18 PM
        > > To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: [agile-usability] Re: Question_Agile Process_ UIE Virtual Seminar
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Thanks everyone for your input... will make it as a mandit to include
        > > developers in my initial design meetings and will say this will be a
        > > roadblock if not included...
        > >
        > > Thanks Everyone again..
        > >
        > > -laksinu
        > >
        > > --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
        > > <mailto:agile-usability%40yahoogroups.com> , Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@>
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hello, Srinivas. On Tuesday, March 10, 2009, at 8:51:00 AM, you
        > > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > I agree to what you say , I would love to have Developers / Designers to
        > > > > be in the same team but it is not possible
        > > >
        > > > Why? Are some of them in prison?
        > > >
        > > > > once example as i said earlier ... if developers and designer, BA's are
        > > > > working at the same time and if the screen design is done ... and we
        > > > > test the design with the USERS ... it is not really possible to get
        > > > > feedback from the USERS in 2 weeks or so.. by the time we get the
        > > > > feedback from USERS developers are done with there coding ... and if we
        > > > > have some changes .. developers need to change the code ...
        > > >
        > > > Yes. This is an obstacle. You must remove it.
        > > >
        > > > Ron Jeffries
        > > > www.XProgramming.com
        > > > www.xprogramming.com/blog
        > > > Attend our CSM Plus Course!
        > > > http://hendricksonxp.com/index.php?option=com_eventlist
        > > <http://hendricksonxp.com/index.php?option=com_eventlist&Itemid=28>
        > > &Itemid=28
        > > > Thousands of years ago, the first man discovered how to make fire.
        > > > He was probably burned at the stake he had taught his brothers to
        > > > light - Howard Roark (The Fountainhead, Ayn Rand)
        > > >
        > >
        >
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