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RE: [agile-usability] Question_Agile Process_ UIE Virtual Seminar

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  • Mike Dwyer
    I use the same terms and the same words (sans buy) to do something a bit different. All stories accepted into a sprint/iteration must be completed within that
    Message 1 of 64 , Mar 9, 2009
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      I use the same terms and the same words (sans buy) to do something a bit different.

      All stories accepted into a sprint/iteration must be completed within that sprint.  Completed requires they have associated with them a traceablity to the value proposition the product owner can sign up with.  Completed occurs when the measurable indicators associated with that story are met.  So William’s muddle is taken and decomposed as the inability of the Product owner to identify measurable for the value of a story provide the shoice criteria for a story be tgaken into an iteration.

       

      I also have a problem with the notion there is a ‘project backlog’  this assumes that all stories are associated with a single project.  In the world that I work in as many as 17 teams have been working on a dozen projects all under the umbrella of a very large program.  I can understand how a UI perception of work would see this scale and scope as the future of UI is the challenged with providing a user a common experience through an endless variety of devices and interfaces so that the way a user gets what they want has to be consistent despite the different capabilities and limitations of the vehicle used.

       

      We have already faced the challenge of the limit of thinking in project terms and offer this learning.  There is a product backlog where stories are kept and as the story’s value is understood, the story is moved into releases where it eventually ends up being delivered in such a way  as to be valuable to the user

       

      Mike Dwyer
      Principal, Agile Coach

      BigVisible Solutions
      url:    http://www.bigvisible.com

      cell:   (978) 376-4422

      email: mdwyer@...

       

       

      From: Srinivas Manda [mailto:laksinu@...]
      Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:58 PM
      To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [agile-usability] Question_Agile Process_ UIE Virtual Seminar

       

      Thanks Mike ....

       

      in a project we usually take all the features and build them in the form of  " user stories"  and place all of these stories in the project backlog and we as a team take some of the stories  and buy them in each iteration.

       

      example : -

       

      say in total we have around 20 stories in the product backlog

      say we have 4 iterations

       

      5 stories x 4 iterations = 20 stories
      and the entire project (20 stories that are in the backlog) can be done in 4 iterations ....

       

      each iteration has 5  stories that team buys based on the priority  that is what i mean
      by "buy stories"..

       

       

      let me know if you have questions ....

       

      -srinivas

       

      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

       

       

      ----- Original Message -----

      From: Mike Dwyer

      Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 6:40 PM

      Subject: RE: [agile-usability] Question_Agile Process_ UIE Virtual Seminar

       

      What do you mean when you say ‘buy stories’.  I am unfamiliar with that term.  It sounds like you have a supplier vendor relationship instead of a collaborative one.

      From what little I understand it seems you are attempting to retain a wall between the developers, designers and the users.  If I may suggest, you might find it interesting to think about beginning with defining everything according to its value, which I take to be usability as it is the only item worthy of testing.  However, by expanding the notion to value the customer can now define the comparative worth of stuff they use based on its value to them in getting the job at hand done.  This would expand the interaction of all by merging their contributions to the customer value needs and thus create a more complete test of usefulness.

      Just a thought

      Mike Dwyer
      Principal, Agile Coach

      BigVisible Solutions
      url:    http://www.bigvisible.com

      cell:   (978) 376-4422

      email: mdwyer@...

      From: Srinivas Manda [mailto:laksinu@...]
      Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 7:03 PM
      To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [agile-usability] Question_Agile Process_ UIE Virtual Seminar

      Thanks William, the problem is in Agile you know that we always buy stories  and work on them in sprints ...
      designers always do early designs so that it can be usability tested before developers actually code it ....

      in  iteration zero if designers work on the features that time developers might buy some stories (technical) and they are busy with it...

      1. Put everybody in the same room.
        if developers are working on other stories how can they be part of design stories
      2. When designers design, encourage them to frequently get feedback from the developers.
        developers are busy with other stories how can they contribute of the stories that designers might have bought
      3. When developers develop, encourage them to frequently get feedback from the designers.

      -laksinu

      ----- Original Message -----

      Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 4:38 PM

      Subject: Re: [agile-usability] Question_Agile Process_ UIE Virtual Seminar

      Srinivas Manda wrote:

      (in Iteration ZERO developers may not be ready to participate with designer as they will work on some other technical tasks)

      Once we move on to SECOND Iteration and we will give Requirements / Screens / Spec of the First feature to the developers so that they can code it..   and this is where the problem comes

      Problem: If there is a technical problem/Limitation that arises for the designs that we already worked on ITERATION ZERO how do we handle it?



      My easy three-step solution:

      1. Put everybody in the same room.
      2. When designers design, encourage them to frequently get feedback from the developers.
      3. When developers develop, encourage them to frequently get feedback from the designers.


      I've seen this approach work well for quite a number of successful teams. It turns out people are never too busy to talk with the guy sitting right next to them, especially when it makes both of their jobs easier.

      William

      --
      William Pietri - william@... - +1-415-643-1024
      Agile consulting, coaching, and development: http://www.scissor.com/
      We'd love feedback on our new blog: http://agilefocus.com/

    • juliebooth36
      At Con-way, we have the luxury (right now) of being in the same geographic location. But there are only two of us UX types... We work very closely with the BA
      Message 64 of 64 , Oct 19, 2009
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        At Con-way, we have the luxury (right now) of being in the same geographic location. But there are only two of us UX types... We work very closely with the BA and the Developers on the teams and have established a process where we participate in stand-up as much as possible and have a weekly revolving door ux session on whatever is testable. I posted a chart and a quick explanation about how we are using Mingle to manage that here:
        http://www.uxsuccess.com/2009/10/ux-and-agile-co-mingling.html



        --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Srinivas Manda" <laksinu@...> wrote:
        >
        > Mike, we as a team are still trying to understand Agile, and we are working based on how easy it is for us that suites our working model.
        >
        > Agile says that we (designer, dev, testing etc) should be at one place and work on stories that team buys for that iteration
        >
        > But in realistic how can that happen?
        >
        > Say everyone is at one place for 3 weeks and start working on features and as a UX designer I should design the feature and get that validated with users and get a feedback from them .. But if we follow agile then the dev team should be boiling the code before I get the results ...if they do coding and if I get feedback from the users to change some design then should the dev need to recode it ?
        >
        > Please comment on this
        >
        >
        > --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dwyer" <mdwyer@> wrote:
        > >
        > > WHOA! Look dude, Ron was being very nice. We are not talking about
        > > letting developers in to the initial design meetings. Agile is about
        > > everyone being engaged. You may have been an UI or UX Prima Donna in the
        > > conventional world but in the Agile sphere, you are a member of a team, each
        > > of whom brings their own unique skills that you, in all likelihood lack as
        > > you have chosen to be a UI wizard. Here is the secret message inside the
        > > Agile bottle. Users don't buy software, or UI or databases or any of the
        > > stuff we love to work with. Users buy value and it is our combined job to
        > > work with the users to make sure we are all on the same page.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > So if you are going to be Agile, understand this. Your skills are no more
        > > or less valuable than the most junior newbie tester or coder or BA. It is
        > > the sum impact of the team that delivers.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > If this bothers you or you think that your world is an exception, please
        > > look up the word Scrumbutt or Cragile and start using it to refer to what
        > > you do.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Mike Dwyer
        > > Principal, Agile Coach
        > >
        > > BigVisible Solutions
        > > url: http://www.bigvisible.com <http://www.bigvisible.com/>
        > >
        > > cell: (978) 376-4422
        > >
        > > email: mdwyer@ <mailto:asingh@>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > From: Srinivas Manda [mailto:laksinu@]
        > > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 2:18 PM
        > > To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: [agile-usability] Re: Question_Agile Process_ UIE Virtual Seminar
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Thanks everyone for your input... will make it as a mandit to include
        > > developers in my initial design meetings and will say this will be a
        > > roadblock if not included...
        > >
        > > Thanks Everyone again..
        > >
        > > -laksinu
        > >
        > > --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
        > > <mailto:agile-usability%40yahoogroups.com> , Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@>
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hello, Srinivas. On Tuesday, March 10, 2009, at 8:51:00 AM, you
        > > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > I agree to what you say , I would love to have Developers / Designers to
        > > > > be in the same team but it is not possible
        > > >
        > > > Why? Are some of them in prison?
        > > >
        > > > > once example as i said earlier ... if developers and designer, BA's are
        > > > > working at the same time and if the screen design is done ... and we
        > > > > test the design with the USERS ... it is not really possible to get
        > > > > feedback from the USERS in 2 weeks or so.. by the time we get the
        > > > > feedback from USERS developers are done with there coding ... and if we
        > > > > have some changes .. developers need to change the code ...
        > > >
        > > > Yes. This is an obstacle. You must remove it.
        > > >
        > > > Ron Jeffries
        > > > www.XProgramming.com
        > > > www.xprogramming.com/blog
        > > > Attend our CSM Plus Course!
        > > > http://hendricksonxp.com/index.php?option=com_eventlist
        > > <http://hendricksonxp.com/index.php?option=com_eventlist&Itemid=28>
        > > &Itemid=28
        > > > Thousands of years ago, the first man discovered how to make fire.
        > > > He was probably burned at the stake he had taught his brothers to
        > > > light - Howard Roark (The Fountainhead, Ayn Rand)
        > > >
        > >
        >
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