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Re: [agile-usability] Article on Design and Agile on A list Apart

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  • Ron Jeffries
    Hello, Adam. On Tuesday, December 2, 2008, at 4:53:02 PM, you ... Of course. All projects create less value than is possible. Many create sufficient value.
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 3, 2008
      Hello, Adam. On Tuesday, December 2, 2008, at 4:53:02 PM, you
      wrote:

      > Can it be that some projects create /sufficient/ value to justify
      > their own existence but not as much value as is /possible/?

      Of course. All projects create less value than is possible. Many
      create sufficient value.

      > And, what
      > if a project provides sufficient value (to someone) without providing
      > value in the form of working software?

      Then it wouldn't make much sense to have a software project would
      it?

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      www.xprogramming.com/blog
      The practices are not the knowing: they are a path to the knowing.
    • Adam Sroka
      On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 8:25 PM, Ron Jeffries ... Except that it is the Emperor s New Clothing. They have to believe we re selling something or we don t get
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 3, 2008
        On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 8:25 PM, Ron Jeffries
        <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
        > Hello, Adam. On Tuesday, December 2, 2008, at 4:53:02 PM, you
        > wrote:
        >
        >> Can it be that some projects create /sufficient/ value to justify
        >> their own existence but not as much value as is /possible/?
        >
        > Of course. All projects create less value than is possible. Many
        > create sufficient value.
        >
        >> And, what
        >> if a project provides sufficient value (to someone) without providing
        >> value in the form of working software?
        >
        > Then it wouldn't make much sense to have a software project would
        > it?
        >

        Except that it is the Emperor's New Clothing. They have to believe
        we're selling something or we don't get paid. Software is the perfect
        thing to be selling, because no one is quite sure what it is (The
        magical stuff that the internet is made from.) And, everyone already
        expects us to fail (After all it's /really hard/.)

        I'm being cynical, and you don't have to join me. On the other hand,
        cynics are people who have seen how screwed up the world can be.
      • Ron Jeffries
        Hello, Adam. On Thursday, December 4, 2008, at 12:02:31 AM, you ... Well, to operate that way, wouldn t one have to be living a lie? ... Everyone with their
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 4, 2008
          Hello, Adam. On Thursday, December 4, 2008, at 12:02:31 AM, you
          wrote:

          > Except that it is the Emperor's New Clothing. They have to believe
          > we're selling something or we don't get paid. Software is the perfect
          > thing to be selling, because no one is quite sure what it is (The
          > magical stuff that the internet is made from.) And, everyone already
          > expects us to fail (After all it's /really hard/.)

          Well, to operate that way, wouldn't one have to be living a lie?

          > I'm being cynical, and you don't have to join me. On the other hand,
          > cynics are people who have seen how screwed up the world can be.

          Everyone with their eyes open sees how screwed up the world can be.
          The question is what do you do next.

          Ron Jeffries
          www.XProgramming.com
          www.xprogramming.com/blog
          Find the simple path to what works and follow it,
          always looking for a simpler path. -- Patrick D. Smith
        • Adam Sroka
          On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 6:15 AM, Ron Jeffries ... More or less. It is a mob mentality. The more people you have working on something the less stake they have
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 4, 2008
            On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 6:15 AM, Ron Jeffries
            <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
            > Hello, Adam. On Thursday, December 4, 2008, at 12:02:31 AM, you
            > wrote:
            >
            >> Except that it is the Emperor's New Clothing. They have to believe
            >> we're selling something or we don't get paid. Software is the perfect
            >> thing to be selling, because no one is quite sure what it is (The
            >> magical stuff that the internet is made from.) And, everyone already
            >> expects us to fail (After all it's /really hard/.)
            >
            > Well, to operate that way, wouldn't one have to be living a lie?
            >

            More or less.

            It is a mob mentality. The more people you have working on something
            the less stake they have individually. Add deep hierarchies and long,
            slow feedback loops and you have an environment where no one has any
            personal responsibility.

            I think a lot of software people just want to build things. If the
            "architect" comes and says, "I need a component that takes these
            inputs and produces these outputs, and I need it in six weeks," they
            are content to do that with little stake in how that relates to the
            business and the success of the overall project.

            I think the blame for mismanagement generally lies with such
            "architects" and whoever is pulling their strings. Sometimes it is
            malicious. Sometimes it is incompetence. Sometimes you have True
            Believers who are sure that what they are doing is the Right Way to
            develop software even though they've never personally seen it succeed.

            >> I'm being cynical, and you don't have to join me. On the other hand,
            >> cynics are people who have seen how screwed up the world can be.
            >
            > Everyone with their eyes open sees how screwed up the world can be.
            > The question is what do you do next.
            >

            Personally, I make as much noise as I can and then try to get the next
            gig lined up. At some point I'd like to settle down and take some
            responsibility, but that hasn't been in the cards yet.
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