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Module/Driven/Porlet Driven Pages and Accessibility

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  • Leina
    Everyone I wander if anyone has carried out an accessbility review on such web pages (example is the BBC.com homepage). I d like to know what kind of things
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 16, 2008
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      Everyone
      I wander if anyone has carried out an accessbility review on such web
      pages (example is the BBC.com homepage).
      I'd like to know what kind of things did you test?
      What did your findings reveal etc.
      Thanks
      Leina
    • James Page
      The BBC gave a very interesting talk a couple months ago at UPA talk in London. From what I can remember. BBC carried out many tests on the homepage, and went
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 16, 2008
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        The BBC gave a very interesting talk a couple months ago at UPA talk in London.

        From what I can remember.

        BBC carried out many tests on the homepage, and went through many iterations to get it right.

        They have quite a large budget for accessibility.

        As far as I can remember from what they have said they carried out a multiple of lab sessions with many different people with many different disabilities. As well as following the guidelines.

        James

        On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Leina <leina_elgohari@...> wrote:

        Everyone
        I wander if anyone has carried out an accessbility review on such web
        pages (example is the BBC.com homepage).
        I'd like to know what kind of things did you test?
        What did your findings reveal etc.
        Thanks
        Leina


      • leina elgohari
        Thanks James   If only I went to that workshop... Can you remember if Jonathan Hassell of the BBC mentioned why they don t have an accessibility option for
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 17, 2008
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          Thanks James
           
          If only I went to that workshop...
          Can you remember if Jonathan Hassell of the BBC mentioned why they don't have an accessibility option for their homepage?
           
          Thanks
          Lee

          --- On Thu, 10/16/08, James Page <jamespage@...> wrote:
          From: James Page <jamespage@...>
          Subject: Re: [agile-usability] Module/Driven/Porlet Driven Pages and Accessibility
          To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 3:48 PM

          The BBC gave a very interesting talk a couple months ago at UPA talk in London.

          From what I can remember.

          BBC carried out many tests on the homepage, and went through many iterations to get it right.

          They have quite a large budget for accessibility.

          As far as I can remember from what they have said they carried out a multiple of lab sessions with many different people with many different disabilities. As well as following the guidelines.

          James

          On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Leina <leina_elgohari@ yahoo.com> wrote:
          Everyone
          I wander if anyone has carried out an accessbility review on such web
          pages (example is the BBC.com homepage).
          I'd like to know what kind of things did you test?
          What did your findings reveal etc.
          Thanks
          Leina


        • James Page
          Lee, it wasn t just Jonathan but the whole team. They didn t say anything about accessibility link.... But my guess is because the page has been designed to
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 17, 2008
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            Lee,

            it wasn't just Jonathan but the whole team. They didn't say anything about accessibility link.... But my guess is because the page has been designed to work without one. Jonathan is very passionate about really making the user experience as good for anybody with a disability as for somebody without. 

            If you think about it any page should be accessible. If you design the structure of the page right a screen reader should be able to handle most pages. 

            They did mention that Screen enlargers where just as important to focus on as Screen Readers. 

            One thing I have noticed recently is most web pages put the accessible link in the bottom right of the page. This means that the screen reader has to go all the way to the end of the page before the accessible link can be found! Should it not be at the top left of the page. 

            I have been thinking about creating an Audio version of our site because the user experience of somebody using a Screen Reader is so bad. By creating an Audio version we can control the experience and hopefully make it better than most sites. 

            James




            On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 9:55 AM, leina elgohari <leina_elgohari@...> wrote:

            Thanks James
             
            If only I went to that workshop...
            Can you remember if Jonathan Hassell of the BBC mentioned why they don't have an accessibility option for their homepage?
             
            Thanks
            Lee

            --- On Thu, 10/16/08, James Page <jamespage@...> wrote:
            From: James Page <jamespage@...>
            Subject: Re: [agile-usability] Module/Driven/Porlet Driven Pages and Accessibility
            To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 3:48 PM


            The BBC gave a very interesting talk a couple months ago at UPA talk in London.

            From what I can remember.

            BBC carried out many tests on the homepage, and went through many iterations to get it right.

            They have quite a large budget for accessibility.

            As far as I can remember from what they have said they carried out a multiple of lab sessions with many different people with many different disabilities. As well as following the guidelines.

            James

            On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Leina <leina_elgohari@ yahoo.com> wrote:
            Everyone
            I wander if anyone has carried out an accessbility review on such web
            pages (example is the BBC.com homepage).
            I'd like to know what kind of things did you test?
            What did your findings reveal etc.
            Thanks
            Leina



          • leina elgohari
            If a user visits Yahoo/Google then they are presented with a standard portal view. A user can have the option to sign up to MyYahoo/iGoogle which would
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 18, 2008
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              If a user visits Yahoo/Google then they are presented with a standard portal view.
              A user can have the option to sign up to MyYahoo/iGoogle which would give them another view - the module driven design view. 
               
              A module design view for iGoogle, for example, brings in various branded services (e.g. Wikipedia, YouTube, BBC etc) into self contained boxes.
               
              So with iGoogle and MyYahoo a user can have access to 2 views.
               
              I understand how the new BBC evolved out of the old design where almost everything was presented to the user - which they probably thought wasn't ideal. But the latter nevertheless could be their standard view.
               
              If the BBC allowed the user to sign up to the module view they can then allow them the benefit of 2 views. What is more, when a user signs up and makes changes to modules on one machine they can see those changes on other machines. Currently the user can't do that - any changes made are confined to one machine (as there's not sign in).
               
              I just wander if the BBC site is the best candidate for a module driven design as all their modules are BBC branded. But maybe they can design it like that as the BBC has a lot of very strong brands. Is brands/lack of brands an issue with a module design?
               
              Lee

              p.s. I haven't downloaded a screen reader yet but I'm sort of guessing that the standard view would provide a better experience for the user hence another reason to keep the standard view? (don't know yet need to test)
               

              --- On Fri, 10/17/08, James Page <jamespage@...> wrote:
              From: James Page <jamespage@...>
              Subject: Re: [agile-usability] Module/Driven/Porlet Driven Pages and Accessibility
              To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 12:12 PM

              Lee,

              it wasn't just Jonathan but the whole team. They didn't say anything about accessibility link.... But my guess is because the page has been designed to work without one. Jonathan is very passionate about really making the user experience as good for anybody with a disability as for somebody without. 

              If you think about it any page should be accessible. If you design the structure of the page right a screen reader should be able to handle most pages. 

              They did mention that Screen enlargers where just as important to focus on as Screen Readers. 

              One thing I have noticed recently is most web pages put the accessible link in the bottom right of the page. This means that the screen reader has to go all the way to the end of the page before the accessible link can be found! Should it not be at the top left of the page. 

              I have been thinking about creating an Audio version of our site because the user experience of somebody using a Screen Reader is so bad. By creating an Audio version we can control the experience and hopefully make it better than most sites. 

              James




              On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 9:55 AM, leina elgohari <leina_elgohari@ yahoo.com> wrote:
              Thanks James
               
              If only I went to that workshop...
              Can you remember if Jonathan Hassell of the BBC mentioned why they don't have an accessibility option for their homepage?
               
              Thanks
              Lee

              --- On Thu, 10/16/08, James Page <jamespage@gmail. com> wrote:
              From: James Page <jamespage@gmail. com>
              Subject: Re: [agile-usability] Module/Driven/ Porlet Driven Pages and Accessibility
              To: agile-usability@ yahoogroups. com
              Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 3:48 PM


              The BBC gave a very interesting talk a couple months ago at UPA talk in London.

              From what I can remember.

              BBC carried out many tests on the homepage, and went through many iterations to get it right.

              They have quite a large budget for accessibility.

              As far as I can remember from what they have said they carried out a multiple of lab sessions with many different people with many different disabilities. As well as following the guidelines.

              James

              On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Leina <leina_elgohari@ yahoo.com> wrote:
              Everyone
              I wander if anyone has carried out an accessbility review on such web
              pages (example is the BBC.com homepage).
              I'd like to know what kind of things did you test?
              What did your findings reveal etc.
              Thanks
              Leina



            • James Page
              My personal view is that the BBC home page is rather closed, and the yahoo, iGoogle open widget approach is better. But on the other hand the BBC is freeing up
              Message 6 of 6 , Oct 19, 2008
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                My personal view is that the BBC home page is rather closed, and the yahoo, iGoogle open widget approach is better. 

                But on the other hand the BBC is freeing up its content through Backstage so you can easily import the data into yahoo/iGoogle. 

                I wonder if the BBC could allow 3rd party content onto their home page. 

                James

                PS: Do try out a Screen Reader just to give yourself an idea how bad the experience is for somebody who is visually impaired. The challenge now is that most people just try to meet the requirements of making a page accessible, but do not make the experience pleasurable or pleasant.



                On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 6:17 PM, leina elgohari <leina_elgohari@...> wrote:

                If a user visits Yahoo/Google then they are presented with a standard portal view.
                A user can have the option to sign up to MyYahoo/iGoogle which would give them another view - the module driven design view. 
                 
                A module design view for iGoogle, for example, brings in various branded services (e.g. Wikipedia, YouTube, BBC etc) into self contained boxes.
                 
                So with iGoogle and MyYahoo a user can have access to 2 views.
                 
                I understand how the new BBC evolved out of the old design where almost everything was presented to the user - which they probably thought wasn't ideal. But the latter nevertheless could be their standard view.
                 
                If the BBC allowed the user to sign up to the module view they can then allow them the benefit of 2 views. What is more, when a user signs up and makes changes to modules on one machine they can see those changes on other machines. Currently the user can't do that - any changes made are confined to one machine (as there's not sign in).
                 
                I just wander if the BBC site is the best candidate for a module driven design as all their modules are BBC branded. But maybe they can design it like that as the BBC has a lot of very strong brands. Is brands/lack of brands an issue with a module design?
                 
                Lee

                p.s. I haven't downloaded a screen reader yet but I'm sort of guessing that the standard view would provide a better experience for the user hence another reason to keep the standard view? (don't know yet need to test)
                 

                --- On Fri, 10/17/08, James Page <jamespage@...> wrote:
                From: James Page <jamespage@...>
                Subject: Re: [agile-usability] Module/Driven/Porlet Driven Pages and Accessibility
                To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 12:12 PM


                Lee,

                it wasn't just Jonathan but the whole team. They didn't say anything about accessibility link.... But my guess is because the page has been designed to work without one. Jonathan is very passionate about really making the user experience as good for anybody with a disability as for somebody without. 

                If you think about it any page should be accessible. If you design the structure of the page right a screen reader should be able to handle most pages. 

                They did mention that Screen enlargers where just as important to focus on as Screen Readers. 

                One thing I have noticed recently is most web pages put the accessible link in the bottom right of the page. This means that the screen reader has to go all the way to the end of the page before the accessible link can be found! Should it not be at the top left of the page. 

                I have been thinking about creating an Audio version of our site because the user experience of somebody using a Screen Reader is so bad. By creating an Audio version we can control the experience and hopefully make it better than most sites. 

                James




                On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 9:55 AM, leina elgohari <leina_elgohari@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                Thanks James
                 
                If only I went to that workshop...
                Can you remember if Jonathan Hassell of the BBC mentioned why they don't have an accessibility option for their homepage?
                 
                Thanks
                Lee

                --- On Thu, 10/16/08, James Page <jamespage@gmail. com> wrote:
                From: James Page <jamespage@gmail. com>
                Subject: Re: [agile-usability] Module/Driven/ Porlet Driven Pages and Accessibility
                To: agile-usability@ yahoogroups. com
                Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 3:48 PM


                The BBC gave a very interesting talk a couple months ago at UPA talk in London.

                From what I can remember.

                BBC carried out many tests on the homepage, and went through many iterations to get it right.

                They have quite a large budget for accessibility.

                As far as I can remember from what they have said they carried out a multiple of lab sessions with many different people with many different disabilities. As well as following the guidelines.

                James

                On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Leina <leina_elgohari@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                Everyone
                I wander if anyone has carried out an accessbility review on such web
                pages (example is the BBC.com homepage).
                I'd like to know what kind of things did you test?
                What did your findings reveal etc.
                Thanks
                Leina




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