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Re: XP and Big Interaction Design UpFront

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  • Phlip
    ... I said, I propose (entirely to make everyone need to hire more programmers like me) that programs should version with skins, so each user population gets
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 1, 2004
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      Petteri_Hiisil� wrote:

      > Phlip wrote:

      > > Did I say that?
      > >
      > I'm afraid you did :)
      >
      > I don't know if you really meant that, though... But
      > you left us with an
      > impression that you did :)

      I said, "I propose (entirely to make everyone need to
      hire more programmers like me) that programs should
      version with skins, so each user population gets the
      skin they like."

      I did not say each skin had the same click path over
      trivially different art and layout. I am aware some
      pluggable skins provide that.

      So, maybe if we had a boring data entry form, and we
      configured it to support two locales, would that be a
      "wild allegation"?

      No? Okay, how about calling the locale configuration
      thing a "skin". Is something wrong with that?

      Or how about a Wiki that supports both a stand-alone
      server and a CGI server. The user can perceive the
      difference. Are they "skins"?

      Or suppose my onsite usability expert requested a user
      interface surface with pluggable art and layout
      modules. Would writing them test-first, and
      constraining them with acceptance tests, be
      irresponsible?

      (BTW the boring data entry form's two skins are
      English and Sanskrit. Wild, huh?;)

      =====
      Phlip
      http://industrialxp.org/community/bin/view/Main/TestFirstUserInterfaces



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    • William Pietri
      ... Interesting. My experience so far has been that if things like architecture and data model are built in an agile, incremental fashion and the most
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 1, 2004
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        On Wed, 2004-09-01 at 11:57, Dave Cronin wrote:
        > Most of the bad effects that we've seen from running research and the
        > initial design phase (what we call the "Interaction Framework")
        > alongside development have to do with premature technical decisions
        > about things like platform, architecture, and data model. While I
        > haven't worked with many true blue XP shops, my experience is that these
        > things are difficult and expensive to modify or "refactor".

        Interesting. My experience so far has been that if things like
        architecture and data model are built in an agile, incremental fashion
        and the most important things are built first, refactoring later is much
        cheaper than waiting for clarity. It takes a skilled team, though;
        novices may be unable to defer questions like, "Should we use a
        database?" My current team has managed to avoid answering that for eight
        months.

        I'm not quite sure what you mean by platform; that's a broad term. If a
        client is still unsure whether they want a web site or a custom wireless
        handheld device, I'd agree it's probably too early to start the
        front-end development. Or more generally, if it's too early in the
        project to pick even two of the developers you'd need, it's too early to
        start construction.

        On the other hand, although I've participated in a lot of half-baked
        product discussions, I've never seen one where somebody was ready to put
        money down and where I couldn't pull out at least a week of work that
        was relatively stable. And after that, it's always my experience that
        people can think of features far faster than I can build them.

        On one project, for example, the first three stories were

        * guest views home page
        * user logs in
        * user logs out

        With all the shenanigans involved in setting up a new project, starting
        development, and getting something onto production servers the first
        time, this took two weeks. At which point enough research and design had
        happened that there were several more cards ready.

        Of course, all this is just my experience; it's a big world out there.


        > And as far as those conversations between Cooper and Beck, I think
        > they were both doing their best to demonstrate the gulf between the
        > viewpoints, which I suppose was appropriate back then when a lot of
        > the industry was just coming to terms with both of these approaches. I
        > think we've gotten to a point where it makes sense to look for some
        > cross-pollination and middle ground.

        Agreed!

        In fact, since you're in the SF area, you should come by for lunch and
        chat with the team, including the product designer. XP is hard to
        imagine unless you've seen it working. Contact me off-list to arrange
        it.

        William
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