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Re: [agile-usability] Re: When does presentation layer come in?

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  • Jonathan House
    ... Or better yet, the user of the system actually sat down with one of the QA people and co-authored a grundle of Fitnesse tests that validated the
    Message 1 of 283 , Aug 2, 2008
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      Ron Jeffries wrote:
      Hello, William.  On Saturday, August 2, 2008, at 3:59:06 PM, you
      wrote:
      
        
      Just wanted to make sure we're on the same page. In that case, when 
      you've got some API completed with no UI, I understand you'd call that
      working software. For whom is it working?
          
      Depends. What if it had comprehensive acceptance tests that the user
      understood?
        
      Or better yet, the user of the system actually sat down with one of the QA people and co-authored a grundle of Fitnesse tests that validated the assumptions of the API.

      Cheers,

      Jonathan House
      Technology Operations Director, Amirsys Inc.
    • George Dinwiddie
      ... William, why do you say apparently not? Is not the text appearing on the screen part of working software no matter whether the text is compiled into
      Message 283 of 283 , Aug 21, 2008
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        William Pietri wrote:
        > The team decides the highest priority is to fix that. So the whole team
        > spends the week rummaging through the content management system,
        > rewriting copy, changing labels, clarifying wording, and so on. Not a
        > line of code is written; no software is produced.
        >
        > Upon release, key metrics improve significantly. Users are happier,
        > signups are more frequent, retention goes up. Millions of extra dollars
        > will be made over the next year. By external measures, it is the most
        > useful week of work all year.
        >
        > Would the business call that a week with progress? Yes. Would the team
        > call that progress? Yes. Would that Agile Manifesto? Apparently not.

        William, why do you say "apparently not?"

        Is not the text appearing on the screen part of "working software" no
        matter whether the text is compiled into the object code or read out of
        some data store?

        Is this not an example of "satisfy[ing] the customer through early and
        continuous delivery of valuable software?"

        Is this not a case of "deliver[ing] working software frequently?"

        Is this not an example of "business people and developers [working]
        together daily?"

        Is this not an excellent example of a "team reflect[ing] on how to
        become more effective, then tun[ing] and adjust[ing] its behavior
        accordingly?"

        Your other example, where "eventually, after many months of work, they
        decide they can release," seems to violate several principles,
        particularly, "Agile processes promote sustainable development. The
        sponsors, developers, and users should be able to maintain a constant
        pace indefinitely."

        - George

        --
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
        Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
        Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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