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RE: [agile-usability] Re: [XP] XP and Big Interaction Design UpFront

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  • Phlip
    ... Did I say that? ===== Phlip http://industrialxp.org/community/bin/view/Main/TestFirstUserInterfaces __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 1, 2004
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      Dave Cronin wrote:

      > Despite some wild allegations made yesterday about
      > "skins" and the like,
      > human-software interaction is about much more than
      > the spatial
      > arrangement and color scheme of the "presentation
      > layer."

      Did I say that?



      =====
      Phlip
      http://industrialxp.org/community/bin/view/Main/TestFirstUserInterfaces



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    • Petteri Hiisilä
      ... I m afraid you did :) I don t know if you really meant that, though... But you left us with an impression that you did :) - Petteri
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 1, 2004
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        Phlip wrote:

        > Dave Cronin wrote:
        >
        > > Despite some wild allegations made yesterday about
        > > "skins" and the like,
        > > human-software interaction is about much more than
        > > the spatial
        > > arrangement and color scheme of the "presentation
        > > layer."
        >
        > Did I say that?
        >
        I'm afraid you did :)

        I don't know if you really meant that, though... But you left us with an
        impression that you did :)

        - Petteri
      • Phlip
        ... I said, I propose (entirely to make everyone need to hire more programmers like me) that programs should version with skins, so each user population gets
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 1, 2004
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          Petteri_Hiisil� wrote:

          > Phlip wrote:

          > > Did I say that?
          > >
          > I'm afraid you did :)
          >
          > I don't know if you really meant that, though... But
          > you left us with an
          > impression that you did :)

          I said, "I propose (entirely to make everyone need to
          hire more programmers like me) that programs should
          version with skins, so each user population gets the
          skin they like."

          I did not say each skin had the same click path over
          trivially different art and layout. I am aware some
          pluggable skins provide that.

          So, maybe if we had a boring data entry form, and we
          configured it to support two locales, would that be a
          "wild allegation"?

          No? Okay, how about calling the locale configuration
          thing a "skin". Is something wrong with that?

          Or how about a Wiki that supports both a stand-alone
          server and a CGI server. The user can perceive the
          difference. Are they "skins"?

          Or suppose my onsite usability expert requested a user
          interface surface with pluggable art and layout
          modules. Would writing them test-first, and
          constraining them with acceptance tests, be
          irresponsible?

          (BTW the boring data entry form's two skins are
          English and Sanskrit. Wild, huh?;)

          =====
          Phlip
          http://industrialxp.org/community/bin/view/Main/TestFirstUserInterfaces



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        • William Pietri
          ... Interesting. My experience so far has been that if things like architecture and data model are built in an agile, incremental fashion and the most
          Message 4 of 5 , Sep 1, 2004
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            On Wed, 2004-09-01 at 11:57, Dave Cronin wrote:
            > Most of the bad effects that we've seen from running research and the
            > initial design phase (what we call the "Interaction Framework")
            > alongside development have to do with premature technical decisions
            > about things like platform, architecture, and data model. While I
            > haven't worked with many true blue XP shops, my experience is that these
            > things are difficult and expensive to modify or "refactor".

            Interesting. My experience so far has been that if things like
            architecture and data model are built in an agile, incremental fashion
            and the most important things are built first, refactoring later is much
            cheaper than waiting for clarity. It takes a skilled team, though;
            novices may be unable to defer questions like, "Should we use a
            database?" My current team has managed to avoid answering that for eight
            months.

            I'm not quite sure what you mean by platform; that's a broad term. If a
            client is still unsure whether they want a web site or a custom wireless
            handheld device, I'd agree it's probably too early to start the
            front-end development. Or more generally, if it's too early in the
            project to pick even two of the developers you'd need, it's too early to
            start construction.

            On the other hand, although I've participated in a lot of half-baked
            product discussions, I've never seen one where somebody was ready to put
            money down and where I couldn't pull out at least a week of work that
            was relatively stable. And after that, it's always my experience that
            people can think of features far faster than I can build them.

            On one project, for example, the first three stories were

            * guest views home page
            * user logs in
            * user logs out

            With all the shenanigans involved in setting up a new project, starting
            development, and getting something onto production servers the first
            time, this took two weeks. At which point enough research and design had
            happened that there were several more cards ready.

            Of course, all this is just my experience; it's a big world out there.


            > And as far as those conversations between Cooper and Beck, I think
            > they were both doing their best to demonstrate the gulf between the
            > viewpoints, which I suppose was appropriate back then when a lot of
            > the industry was just coming to terms with both of these approaches. I
            > think we've gotten to a point where it makes sense to look for some
            > cross-pollination and middle ground.

            Agreed!

            In fact, since you're in the SF area, you should come by for lunch and
            chat with the team, including the product designer. XP is hard to
            imagine unless you've seen it working. Contact me off-list to arrange
            it.

            William
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