Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

RE: [agile-usability] Agile for Agencies (marketing websites)

Expand Messages
  • Desilets, Alain
    ... Why do you say Ideally ? Alain Désilets
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 7, 2008
      > Ideally we would follow a waterfall model (strategy>interaction design>visual design>development>QA)

      Why do you say "Ideally"?

      Alain Désilets
    • Four Hewes, Caspian Design
      Guillermo, Here s some initial feedback to your questions - which I hope helps frame your understanding of Agile as you explore adopting it in your agency. The
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 7, 2008
        Guillermo,

        Here's some initial feedback to your questions - which I hope helps
        frame your understanding of Agile as you explore adopting it in your
        agency.

        The Agile way is one of ongoing transformation of products, oneself
        and the business. The Agile way supercedes the concept of "business
        as usual" with the concept of "business as necessary for sustained
        acheivement of [healthy, humane business] goals."

        Ultimately the Agile/XP/Scrum approach to developing software would
        change your organization, its roles, performance measures, how it
        determines value, staff relationships, perhaps even the meaning of
        "managing" and the compensation structure. Certainly the role of IxD
        would be changed, perhaps even replaced (depending on how your agency
        responds to Agile's demands).

        While one can "adapt the Agile model" and "bolt on" to existing
        methods, structures and culture specific agile practices, that would
        not yield much sustained potential value, nor harness its fundamental
        potential.

        I find these questions help people grasp Agile's purpose and power as
        they begin to investigate its application in their circumstances:
        How deeply would my organization (whether the team, project, business
        unit, enterprise or leadership) and each person in the organization
        be willing to change their definitions of our work and our goals?
        How willing are we (jointly and individually) to approach our
        business goals if we know we will achieve the results we need and yet
        _can't_ know before we start (nor before we're done) our final
        product, our specific contributions or the subsequent path our
        business will need to take?


        Yours,

        Four Hewes

        At 1:59 PM -0700 4/4/08, Guillermo Torres wrote: [Edited for brevity
        & compactness]
        Hi, I am new to Agile/XP/Scrum, doing some research to see if it
        makes sense to apply this process where I work. I am an interaction
        designer at an interactive marketing agency. ...Ideally we would
        follow a waterfall model...So I was wonder if anyone here has tried
        to adapt the Agile model for this type of product... [to] see if
        Agile or Scrum are processes that I build a case for and sell it
        withing the agency. thanks, Guillermo
        --
        --
        Four Hewes, Principal
        Caspian Design | A Hybrid Consultancy for changing marketplace,
        technology and business
        Strategic Guidance | New Product Development | Design Services
        four [at] CaspianDesign ]period[ com
        http://www.CaspianDesign.com
      • Tom Hume
        Guillermo My company has a similar set-up to yours, from the sound of things. We find that clients like the seeing-things-early elements of iterative delivery,
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 7, 2008
          Guillermo

          My company has a similar set-up to yours, from the sound of things. We
          find that clients like the seeing-things-early elements of iterative
          delivery, but that we frequently end up running multiple projects
          simultaneously within a team of 7 (and that getting feedback from
          multiple off-site stakeholders can derail things on occasion)... and
          we suffer the losses that context switching in this situation entails.

          Tom

          On 4 Apr 2008, at 21:59, Guillermo Torres wrote:
          > Hi,
          >
          > I am new to Agile/XP/Scrum, doing some research to see if it makes
          > sense to apply this process where I work. I am an interaction
          > designer at an interactive marketing agency. We create mostly
          > online experiences and RIAs (flash web sites). These projects
          > usually run for about 3 months at the most.
          >
          >
          > Ideally we would follow a waterfall model (strategy>interaction
          > design>visual design>development>QA) but it is very often when our
          > client demands to see final comps right away, they usually don't
          > understand strategy or interaction design deliverables. So we have
          > to develop prototypes right away, then ID has to come in and "fix"
          > what was built.
          >
          > So I was wonder if anyone here has tried to adapt the Agile model
          > for this type of product.
          >
          > if you haven't I would still love it if your opinion on certain
          > resources on methodologies we could follow, and see if Agile or
          > Scrum are processes that I build a case for and sell it withing the
          > agency.
          >
          >
          > thanks,
          >
          > Guillermo
          >
          >
          >
          >

          --
          Future Platforms Ltd
          e: Tom.Hume@...
          t: +44 (0) 1273 819038
          m: +44 (0) 7971 781422
          company: www.futureplatforms.com
          personal: tomhume.org
        • Guillermo Torres
          Well, most of the times we need to skip a phase, to meet client expectations or certain project circumstances. On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Desilets, Alain
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 10, 2008
            Well, most of the times we need to skip a phase, to meet client expectations or certain project circumstances.



            On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Desilets, Alain <alain.desilets@...> wrote:

            > Ideally we would follow a waterfall model (strategy>interaction design>visual design>development>QA)

            Why do you say "Ideally"?

            Alain Désilets


          • Ron Jeffries
            Hello, Guillermo. On Thursday, April 10, 2008, at 7:44:06 PM, you ... So, maybe if this is happening most of the times, we re mistaken to think that the
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 11, 2008
              Hello, Guillermo. On Thursday, April 10, 2008, at 7:44:06 PM, you
              wrote:

              > Well, most of the times we need to skip a phase, to meet client expectations
              > or certain project circumstances.

              So, maybe if this is happening most of the times, we're mistaken to
              think that the "waterfall" style would be ideal?

              > On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Desilets, Alain <
              > alain.desilets@...> wrote:

              >> > Ideally we would follow a waterfall model (strategy>interaction
              >> design>visual design>development>QA)

              Ron Jeffries
              www.XProgramming.com
              It's easy to have a complicated idea.
              It's very very hard to have a simple idea.
              -- Carver Mead
            • Four Hewes, Caspian Design
              Guillermo, Do you mean skip a website design phase, a project phase....? Please elaborate a bit. Four At 4:44 PM -0700 4/10/08, Guillermo Torres wrote: Well,
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 11, 2008
                Guillermo,

                Do you mean skip a website design phase, a project phase....? Please
                elaborate a bit.

                Four

                At 4:44 PM -0700 4/10/08, Guillermo Torres wrote:
                Well, most of the times we need to skip a phase, to meet client
                expectations or certain project circumstances.
                --
                --
                Four Hewes, Principal
                Caspian Design | A Hybrid Consultancy for changing marketplace,
                technology and business
                Strategic Guidance | New Product Development | Design Services
              • Desilets, Alain
                On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Desilets, Alain ... design visual design development QA) ... expectations or certain project circumstances. I guess what I am
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 11, 2008
                  On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Desilets, Alain
                  <alain.desilets@...> wrote:
                  >>> Ideally we would follow a waterfall model (strategy>interaction
                  design>visual design>development>QA)
                  >>
                  >> Why do you say "Ideally"?
                  >
                  > Well, most of the times we need to skip a phase, to meet client
                  expectations or certain project circumstances.

                  I guess what I am trying to get at is that in the Agile world, most
                  folks do not consider Waterfall to be an ideal that one should even aim
                  at.


                  Alain
                • Guillermo Torres
                  Actually, the biggest frustration comes because we end up having to skip phases when we follow the waterfall model. Due to client demands, usually the
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 14, 2008
                    Actually, the biggest frustration comes because we end up having to skip phases when we follow the waterfall model. Due to client demands, usually the interaction design phase is skipped, going straight to visual design, and making final comps. Which is hard to do it right so there end up being a lot of revisions to get it right. And once we get initial approval from the client, the interaction designer is called in to "fix" the comps. The development of phase of the project then gets pushed further down, because of the many iterations.

                    So, since we end up having to do so many unplanned iterations I figured that a planned iterative process might ease some of the frustation. And that's why I started to look into Agile Software Development. But Agile seems to be devised for lengthy software development projects, as opposed to short web development processes, particularly when the focus of the project is visual design, not development.


                    I was hoping that someone had tried applying some of the iterative concepts to these type of processes. I was thinking of a process where there are 2 or 3 sprints, of a couple of weeks in duration, the output of these sprints would be a working prototype. after the final prototype is done, the programming team would unfold the rest of the application and submit it for QA. The team could be formed by a visual designer, and interaction designer, 2 developers, a project manager and a copywriter.

                    peas,

                    G






                    On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 6:31 PM, Four Hewes, Caspian Design <four@...> wrote:

                    Guillermo,

                    Do you mean skip a website design phase, a project phase....? Please
                    elaborate a bit.

                    Four



                    At 4:44 PM -0700 4/10/08, Guillermo Torres wrote:
                    Well, most of the times we need to skip a phase, to meet client
                    expectations or certain project circumstances.
                    --
                    --
                    Four Hewes, Principal
                    Caspian Design | A Hybrid Consultancy for changing marketplace,
                    technology and business
                    Strategic Guidance | New Product Development | Design Services

                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.