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Re: Inmates

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  • Ron Vutpakdi
    ... I agree that there is a huge difference. The problem is that too many people, including those who should know better, want to treat prototype code as code
    Message 1 of 176 , Nov 3, 2007
      -- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, John Schrag <john@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > I think there is a huge difference between production code and
      > prototype code. Production code requires a much higher level of
      > testing, and needs to be able to handle any and all edge cases
      > gracefully, as well as handle scaling. Prototype code can skip most
      > of that. And yes, production code does take longer to write --- it
      > is to prototype code what a polished design is to a design sketch.

      I agree that there is a huge difference. The problem is that too many
      people, including those who should know better, want to treat
      prototype code as code that can be turned into production code with
      minimal effort (usually by pronouncing the prototype code now
      "production" code.

      Part of the reason that whenever someone asks me to do a high fidelity
      UI prototype, I tend to be very reluctant and push them towards a
      lower fidelity deliverable.

      I also agree with Cooper's assertion, that code can quickly become a
      cherished medium that people are unwilling to throw away or radically
      refactor. That can happen on any project.


      >
      > I agree with Jeff --- in my experience, Agile projects produce better
      > code, if anything. Because at the end of each cycle, the developers
      > actually finish the features -- test them, debug them , and make them
      > robust --- before proceeding to the next cycle and its features.

      That's only if they are really Agile projects though. I've seen too
      many projects where everyone pretended that they were "agile"
      projects, but were really excuses to hack without stopping to think
      about what was really needed. So, features were made to work, but
      they weren't fully tested and robust.

      Ron
    • Scott Preece
      Hi, I think it s more about not squashing joy than about encouraging it. Most of us take a lot of pleasure in doing this software thing, and many look for
      Message 176 of 176 , Dec 1, 2007
        Hi,

        I think it's more about not squashing joy than about encouraging it. Most of us take a lot of pleasure in doing this software thing, and many look for jobs that let them extend that pleasure by advancing efforts that interest them in one way or another. I suspect there may be some really effective leaders who can actually build an additional sense of joy around project accomplishments in their teams, but I think that's stretching it and that much of the potential for joy of work is personal and internal. It's more about enabling and not disabling joy than about creating it.

        Organizations, managers, process designers, and everyone else involved have infinite opportunities to make life miserable, so not killing joy is clearly a good thing to encourage. I'm just not sure how to state this in the form of the Manifesto's values statements. We value Joy over what? Most of the obvious choices, like regimentation, professionalism, achievement, speed, order, are either things that organizations would stoutly deny encouraging (like regimentation) or are things aren't inherently anti-joy (like professionalism). Does any organization consciously promote misery in its staff?

        Maybe it's best to assume that valuing joy is part of valuing people?

        regards,
        scott


        ----- Original Message ----

        From: Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...>

        To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com

        Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2007 4:31:23 AM

        Subject: Re: [agile-usability] Joy in work [was: interminable]



        Hello, Brian. On Sunday, November 11, 2007, at 2:34:38 PM, you

        wrote:



        > In fact, I'd go further. I claim that an error of the original

        > manifesto was that it left some values out that, as it happens,

        > should have been explicit. One of those is that work should be

        > joyful. Back in the first half of this decade, people on teams used

        > to tell me, "This is the best project I've ever worked on!" I'm

        > unhappy that what I hear today is more "my job doesn't suck as much

        > as it used to". We've let joy in work slip away in our effort to

        > appeal to more people.



        This is a tough one, for sure. I have guided my work life in large

        part from a joy focus, or at least by noticing, sometimes later than

        I should, that joy was absent, and moving to a place in the currents

        where more joy comes floating by. I would hope that everyone can

        find joy in what they do, though it seems to me that many never do.



        Despite the truth of the notion, it seems unlikely to "sell" to

        business people. This means that it will be "good business" for

        Agilist business people to downplay this and other humanistic

        values, so as to appeal to "hard-nosed" business people.



        I think that what might work in that regard is to find, describe,

        ultimately "prove" that working in ways that give more joy also

        gives better business results. This means that the "ways" in

        question have to be things to do that are not so much like "follow

        your bliss" and a lot like "make sure your people take the time to

        write unit tests because your product will reach an acceptable level

        of quality faster." This would need to be true, of course, and in

        fact I think it is. Then it needs to turn out that having and taking

        the time to write the tests provides an increment of joy to the

        programmers, which certainly can be the case.



        In any case ... it just seems darned hard to address these things,

        and it really could get in the way of at least some people's

        business focus on selling Agile. I'm very interested and not very

        certain what ought to be done.



        Lead us ...



        Ron Jeffries

        www.XProgramming. com

        I know we always like to say it'll be easier to do it now than it

        will be to do it later. Not likely. I plan to be smarter later than

        I am now, so I think it'll be just as easy later, maybe even easier.

        Why pay now when we can pay later?







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