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Re: [agile-usability] Re: Remote versus collocated teams.

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  • Adrian Howard
    ... Very true. There are certainly circumstances when the productivity of an individual is going to be better better/worse. It s an interesting question on how
    Message 1 of 146 , Jun 3, 2007
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      On 3 Jun 2007, at 14:37, Jon Kern wrote:

      > re: /"that co-located groups are more effective."/
      >
      > admittedly, if i took the same group of top-notch distributed people
      > that i use on a project and collocated them, we might be more
      > effective.
      > but being effective is a very personal thing... a happy developer at
      > home with the dog and kids might be more effective than one who fought
      > thru 1 hour of traffic to get to work each day. others would prefer an
      > office versus the distractions of being at home.

      Very true. There are certainly circumstances when the productivity of
      an individual is going to be better better/worse. It's an interesting
      question on how that individual affects the team as a whole.

      > but collocation in and of itself means little.
      >
      > after all, if collocation was *the* answer, why has software
      > development
      > been in such an abysmal state of low rates of success during the days
      > when collocation was most prevalent?

      I don't think anybody is trying to paint co-location as a cure for
      all ills.

      > So, holding all other variables constant and changing only the
      > collocation variable... you are more likely to get improved
      > effectiveness. at least for part of the time the team is together.

      Yup.

      > i also submit that there are much, much, much bigger factors for
      > success
      > and failure than the collocation aspect.

      Yup. Although I'd say some of those factors (e.g. closer customer
      collaboration, common code ownership, etc.) will pay off more for co-
      located teams than they will for distributed ones.

      > however, i would pit my distributed, ad hoc teams of kick-ass
      > developers
      > and architects and style of tackling projects in an agile way against
      > any collocated team. we are pretty darn effective at yielding dramatic
      > savings versus "standard cubicle dwelling" internal development teams.
      > And we leave behind the teams with lots of learning and mentorship
      > as well!
      >
      > btw: we do "collocate" at strategic times on the project.
      > Especially in
      > the beginning stages. It is simply much more effective. And I
      > frequently
      > travel to the client sites and serve as a bit of glue and bridging for
      > the team. But being physically collocated every minute of every day is
      > not required.

      Glad it works for you!

      Just hypothetically - if you all lived in the same area do you think
      you'd co-locate? Do you think you would work better if you all did?

      Cheers,

      Adrian
    • kswaters1
      Here here Ron! Remote teamwork may be possible but it certainly isn t ideal. Close collaboration without co-location is a compromise, sometimes an essential
      Message 146 of 146 , Jul 11, 2007
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        Here here Ron! Remote teamwork may be possible but it certainly
        isn't ideal. Close collaboration without co-location is a
        compromise, sometimes an essential one, but not one you'd advocate
        as part of any methodology.

        I sometimes like to think of this in terms of new business
        startups. How many people would start a business and think, "I
        know, let's base our development teams in multiple locations and
        have the business owners of the product we're building in a
        different place to the developers." For logistical reasons, sales
        and other field-based teams maybe, for product development I think
        not.

        Kelly Waters
        http://www.allaboutagile.com


        --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries
        <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello, Owen. On Sunday, June 3, 2007, at 11:01:30 PM, you wrote:
        >
        > > I realise that many people aren't in my position such that they
        would
        > > want hard facts to decide. Many are going to trust the opinions
        of other
        > > people they may think have seasoned opinions, because they
        haven't got
        > > the time or the interest to decide for themselves. However, if
        John
        > > Kern's business, as a case in point, can demonstrate that the use
        > > communications tools to facilitate a remote team discussion is
        possible,
        > > then shouldn't the Agile community be a little less hard on
        remote
        > > teaming?
        >
        > Owen, even Jon said that together would be better. Why would we
        want
        > to recommend something that wasn't the best we know?
        >
        > Ron Jeffries
        > www.XProgramming.com
        > The fact that we know more today, and are more capable today,
        > is good news about today, not bad news about yesterday.
        >
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