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Re: [agile-usability] Re: Remote versus collocated teams.

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  • Ron Jeffries
    ... Owen, it appears to me that the above, and your similar thoughts, are speculation. It seems that you don t know much about Agile methods yet, and haven t
    Message 1 of 146 , Jun 2, 2007
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      Hello, Owen. On Thursday, May 31, 2007, at 11:32:34 AM, you wrote:

      > What I appear to have to point out now is that I believe remote teams
      > are not necessarily distant. As I have observed, the trend in Agile
      > development is to over-emphasise the significance of physical
      > collocation. Furthermore, I believe this over-emphasis may even be at
      > the expense of the project's objectives especially if a distributed team
      > might confer some advantages in getting the work done.

      Owen, it appears to me that the above, and your similar thoughts,
      are speculation. It seems that you don't know much about Agile
      methods yet, and haven't yet worked as part of an Agile team. Many
      of us who are chatting with you on this have rather more concrete
      experience. As I mentioned, I've worked with many Agile teams,
      including some with

      - people in the same room;
      - people in separate rooms down the hall;
      - people in rooms on different floors;
      - people in different countries.

      I'm not /guessing/ that it makes a difference. I'm /reporting/ that
      it makes a difference, and the difference is significant.

      Is it possible to compensate? To some degree it seems to be, but the
      remote people are likely going to be more isolated and less able to
      be involved, at least with today's technology. If they are all
      remote, then they will all be more isolated and less involved that
      people would be who were together.

      It seems to me as I read your words that you are trying to redefine
      the universe to your liking, despite the evidence that the universe
      is not as you might like. Rewriting the world seems to me to be
      fraught. It seems to me that you may prosper more fully if you begin
      to work on why, when, and how a remote worker can be worth his or
      her money, or when a distributed project is really better than a
      co-located one.

      You have my report, and my unsolicited advice. You will, of course,
      do as you wish, as will we all. That is as it should be.

      Regards,

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      Agility might be said to be about encountering
      all the problems so early and so often that the
      effort to fix them is less than the pain of enduring them.
    • kswaters1
      Here here Ron! Remote teamwork may be possible but it certainly isn t ideal. Close collaboration without co-location is a compromise, sometimes an essential
      Message 146 of 146 , Jul 11, 2007
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        Here here Ron! Remote teamwork may be possible but it certainly
        isn't ideal. Close collaboration without co-location is a
        compromise, sometimes an essential one, but not one you'd advocate
        as part of any methodology.

        I sometimes like to think of this in terms of new business
        startups. How many people would start a business and think, "I
        know, let's base our development teams in multiple locations and
        have the business owners of the product we're building in a
        different place to the developers." For logistical reasons, sales
        and other field-based teams maybe, for product development I think
        not.

        Kelly Waters
        http://www.allaboutagile.com


        --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries
        <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello, Owen. On Sunday, June 3, 2007, at 11:01:30 PM, you wrote:
        >
        > > I realise that many people aren't in my position such that they
        would
        > > want hard facts to decide. Many are going to trust the opinions
        of other
        > > people they may think have seasoned opinions, because they
        haven't got
        > > the time or the interest to decide for themselves. However, if
        John
        > > Kern's business, as a case in point, can demonstrate that the use
        > > communications tools to facilitate a remote team discussion is
        possible,
        > > then shouldn't the Agile community be a little less hard on
        remote
        > > teaming?
        >
        > Owen, even Jon said that together would be better. Why would we
        want
        > to recommend something that wasn't the best we know?
        >
        > Ron Jeffries
        > www.XProgramming.com
        > The fact that we know more today, and are more capable today,
        > is good news about today, not bad news about yesterday.
        >
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