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RE: [agile-usability] follow the leader

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  • Damhuis Anton
    Hi I just tried this *bug*, and had no problem editing the text with the and features, you described as a bug. I am using Excel version 9
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 3, 2005
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      Hi

      I just tried this *bug*, and had no problem editing the text with the <left> and <ctlr><left> features, you described as a bug.
      I am using Excel version 9 SP3, so is it not maybe a setting somewhere in Excel?

      Regards
      Anton


      -----Original Message-----
      From: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:agile-usability@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Phlip
      Sent: 04 November 2005 01:07
      To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [agile-usability] follow the leader
      ....
      When I type a mistake, I may catch it several words later. The most
      efficient way to move the text caret back to the mistake is either
      <Left> or <Ctrl+Left>. It's not <Backspace>, because I'm proficient.
      I'm smart enough not to need to type all that text again just to edit
      a mistake.

      Confidentiality Warning
      =======================

      The contents of this e-mail and any accompanying documentation
      are confidential and any use thereof, in what ever form, by anyone
      other than the addressee is strictly prohibited.
    • Ignacio Facello
      I haven t used Excel much, but I remember having the opposite problem -- I am editing a cell, and left-right moves the caret in the text. How do I go to the
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 4, 2005
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        I haven't used Excel much, but I remember having the opposite problem -- I am
        editing a cell, and left-right moves the caret in the text. How do I go to the
        previous cell?
        And also, I had the problem the OP described. It all depended on what I was
        doing, which was frustrating. I think Excel should behave the same no matter
        what you were doing -- whether left moves the caret or changes cell, I wouldn't
        care, I would get used to it. What bothers me is the different behaviour with no
        significant visual cue that you are in a different mode.

        Quoting "Desilets, Alain" <alain.desilets@...>:

        > -- Alain:
        > It's interesting that you would write this. What you are describing
        > above is in all respects equivalent to MS Excel defining <Left> as
        > meaning "move to the previous cell". In a spreadsheet context, moving
        > from one cell to an adjacent cell is more frequent than moving from one
        > character to an adjacent one. Yet, while you loved the fact that Uedit
        > assigned word navigation to the <Left> key, you hate the fact that Excel
        > assigns cell navigation to the <Left> key. OK, Excel does not even have
        > a separate key sequences (ex: <Ctr>+<Left>) for moving to the previous
        > character, but I gather that your annoyance was caused by the fact that
        > Excel overrode the standard meaning of <Left>.
        >
        > So there must be something else that bothers you about the way MS Excel
        > supports cell vs character navigation with arrow keys. What is it?
        > ----



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      • Phlip
        ... Now there s an example of slick usability that did everything _wrong_ by todays standards. Everyone nowadays does Object- Action. First you select the
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 4, 2005
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          Jon Kern wrote:

          > Lotus 1-2-3

          Now there's an example of slick usability that did everything _wrong_
          by todays standards.

          Everyone nowadays does Object->Action. First you select the object,
          then you pick an action. Example: Select some cells, then Copy them.

          In Lotus 1-2-3, you declare Copy, and get a Cell Selector Mode to pick
          the cells to copy.

          So the amazing thing was this got useful and intuitive, after you
          start using it.

          --
          Phlip
          http://www.greencheese.org/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!
        • Phlip
          ... It s because Microsoft invented it! Snarl! Drool! Drool! (Uh, the principle of least surprise might also apply...) -- Phlip
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 4, 2005
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            Desilets, Alain wrote:

            > So there must be something else that bothers you about the way MS Excel
            > supports cell vs character navigation with arrow keys. What is it?

            It's because Microsoft invented it! Snarl! Drool! Drool!

            (Uh, the principle of least surprise might also apply...)

            --
            Phlip
            http://www.greencheese.org/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!
          • Phlip
            ... The CUA sez it should be . ... Arrow to a cell and start typing alpha without . You are still in arrow among cells mode , not text edit
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 4, 2005
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              Ignacio Facello wrote:


              > I haven't used Excel much, but I remember having the opposite problem
              > -- I am
              > editing a cell, and left-right moves the caret in the text. How do I go to the
              > previous cell?

              The CUA sez it should be <Shift+Tab>.

              > And also, I had the problem the OP described. It all depended on what I was
              > doing, which was frustrating.

              Arrow to a cell and start typing alpha without <F2>. You are still in
              "arrow among cells mode", not "text edit mode", and the system allows
              you to enter text essentially as a "convenience".

              > What bothers me is the different behaviour with no
              > significant visual cue that you are in a different mode.

              Not at all. The frame around the cell goes from a focus-style to an
              edit field frame style.

              Can't you tell? ;-)

              --
              Phlip
              http://www.greencheese.org/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!
            • Anthony Williams
              ... XEmacs does this, and I presume emacs does too. Anthony -- Anthony Williams Software Developer Just Software Solutions Ltd
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 16, 2005
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                Phlip <phlip2005@...> writes:

                > On UEdit, when you type off the end of a window, the caret would
                > scroll to the center of the window. This is the correct behavior, and
                > I never saw any editor since use it.

                XEmacs does this, and I presume emacs does too.

                Anthony
                --
                Anthony Williams
                Software Developer
                Just Software Solutions Ltd
                http://www.justsoftwaresolutions.co.uk
              • Desilets, Alain
                ... XEmacs does this, and I presume emacs does too. -- Alain: Yes it does, and I HATE it (eventhough I have been using Emacs for 12 years). Whenever the screen
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 16, 2005
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                  > On UEdit, when you type off the end of a window, the caret would
                  > scroll to the center of the window. This is the correct behavior, and
                  > I never saw any editor since use it.

                  XEmacs does this, and I presume emacs does too.

                  -- Alain:
                  Yes it does, and I HATE it (eventhough I have been using Emacs for 12
                  years). Whenever the screen jumps like that, I completely loose my sense
                  of where I am within the buffer.
                  ----
                • Anthony Williams
                  ... Interesting. I never really noticed until I read Phlip s message, despite the fact that I use XEmacs all the time (including writing this email). But then,
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 16, 2005
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                    "Desilets, Alain" <alain.desilets@...> writes:

                    >> On UEdit, when you type off the end of a window, the caret would
                    >> scroll to the center of the window. This is the correct behavior, and
                    >> I never saw any editor since use it.
                    >
                    > XEmacs does this, and I presume emacs does too.
                    >
                    > -- Alain:
                    > Yes it does, and I HATE it (eventhough I have been using Emacs for 12
                    > years). Whenever the screen jumps like that, I completely loose my sense
                    > of where I am within the buffer.
                    > ----

                    Interesting. I never really noticed until I read Phlip's message, despite the
                    fact that I use XEmacs all the time (including writing this email). But then,
                    I'm particularly good at keeping my place when the text moves --- I can read
                    whilst scrolling the buffer at a reasonable pace (e.g. when hunting through
                    a long list of search results for something relevant).

                    I can see the benefit of not having the text jump around whilst you're
                    working, but if it doesn't, then the cursor is almost always at the bottom of
                    the window, which strikes me as less than ideal.

                    Anthony
                    --
                    Anthony Williams
                    Software Developer
                    Just Software Solutions Ltd
                    http://www.justsoftwaresolutions.co.uk
                  • Desilets, Alain
                    Interesting. I never really noticed until I read Phlip s message, despite the fact that I use XEmacs all the time (including writing this email). But then, I m
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 16, 2005
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                      Interesting. I never really noticed until I read Phlip's message,
                      despite the fact that I use XEmacs all the time (including writing this
                      email). But then, I'm particularly good at keeping my place when the
                      text moves --- I can read whilst scrolling the buffer at a reasonable
                      pace (e.g. when hunting through a long list of search results for
                      something relevant).

                      -- Alain:
                      I'm a very spatially challenged person. I get lost rapidly when my
                      environment keeps changing dynamically.
                      ----
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