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new Yahoo! groups design

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  • David J Anderson
    By any chance is the designer of the new look Yahoo! groups website a member of this list? How do we collectively feel about the usability of the new design?
    Message 1 of 11 , May 12, 2005
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      By any chance is the designer of the new look Yahoo! groups website a
      member of this list?

      How do we collectively feel about the usability of the new design?

      David
      http://www.uidesign.net/
    • Sue Heim
      Collectively, I don t like it. I think it s lost a bit in the usability department. I ve filed a note with Yahoo! but I doubt if they ll listen...
      Message 2 of 11 , May 12, 2005
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        Collectively, I don't like it. I think it's lost a bit in the usability
        department. I've filed a note with Yahoo! but I doubt if they'll listen...

        ...sue

        >From: "David J Anderson" <netherby_uk@...>
        >Reply-To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
        >To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [agile-usability] new Yahoo! groups design
        >Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 16:53:56 -0000
        >
        >By any chance is the designer of the new look Yahoo! groups website a
        >member of this list?
        >
        >How do we collectively feel about the usability of the new design?
        >
        >David
        >http://www.uidesign.net/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Jeff Patton
        This list does have a lot of Yahoo-inc subscribers. I think they re listening in. Aviva, what do you think about YahooGroups new look and feel? Personally, I
        Message 3 of 11 , May 12, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          This list does have a lot of Yahoo-inc subscribers. I think they're
          listening in. Aviva, what do you think about YahooGroups new look
          and feel?

          Personally, I like the look. But, there a few interactions I'd like
          to see changed. What's been done mostly looks like freshening up the
          branding - not improving usability.

          -Jeff

          --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Sue Heim" <sue_heim@m...>
          wrote:
          > Collectively, I don't like it. I think it's lost a bit in the
          usability
          > department. I've filed a note with Yahoo! but I doubt if they'll
          listen...
          >
          > ...sue
          >
          > >From: "David J Anderson" <netherby_uk@y...>
          > >Reply-To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
          > >To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
          > >Subject: [agile-usability] new Yahoo! groups design
          > >Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 16:53:56 -0000
          > >
          > >By any chance is the designer of the new look Yahoo! groups
          website a
          > >member of this list?
          > >
          > >How do we collectively feel about the usability of the new design?
          > >
          > >David
          > >http://www.uidesign.net/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
        • silvana@wasitova.net
          Aviva, Jeff and all, I am with Yahoo-Inc. and would he happy to pass on any suggestions to the right group. You can mail it to my email address:
          Message 4 of 11 , May 12, 2005
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            Aviva, Jeff and all,

            I am with Yahoo-Inc. and would he happy to pass on any suggestions to
            the right group.

            You can mail it to my email address: wasitova@... .

            --
            Silvana Wasitova - silvana@... - 408.258.9193


            > -------- Original Message --------
            > Subject: [agile-usability] Re: new Yahoo! groups design
            > From: "Jeff Patton" <jpatton@...>
            > Date: Thu, May 12, 2005 10:44 am
            > To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > This list does have a lot of Yahoo-inc subscribers. I think they're
            > listening in. Aviva, what do you think about YahooGroups new look
            > and feel?
            >
            > Personally, I like the look. But, there a few interactions I'd like
            > to see changed. What's been done mostly looks like freshening up the
            > branding - not improving usability.
            >
            > -Jeff
            >
            > --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Sue Heim" <sue_heim@m...>
            > wrote:
            > > Collectively, I don't like it. I think it's lost a bit in the
            > usability
            > > department. I've filed a note with Yahoo! but I doubt if they'll
            > listen...
            > >
            > > ...sue
            > >
            > > >From: "David J Anderson" <netherby_uk@y...>
            > > >Reply-To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
            > > >To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
            > > >Subject: [agile-usability] new Yahoo! groups design
            > > >Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 16:53:56 -0000
            > > >
            > > >By any chance is the designer of the new look Yahoo! groups
            > website a
            > > >member of this list?
            > > >
            > > >How do we collectively feel about the usability of the new design?
            > > >
            > > >David
            > > >http://www.uidesign.net/
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • Aviva Rosenstein
            Hi Jeff, Silvana, and all y all: This is embarrasing to admit, but I haven t actually seen the new Groups look yet. (I just have Group mail forwarded to
            Message 5 of 11 , May 12, 2005
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              Hi Jeff, Silvana, and all y'all:
               
              This is embarrasing to admit, but I haven't actually seen the new Groups look yet. (I just have Group mail forwarded to another account so I rarely have a chance to explore that part of the network.) I've been heads down in another project in another part of the organization for the last several weeks.
               
              But I'd love to hear your suggestions too -- so please cc me when you send them to Silvana.
              Aviva
               
              ___________________________
              Aviva Rosenstein, Ph.D.
              Design Researcher
               
              Yahoo! Inc.
              701 First Avenue
              Sunnyvale, CA, 94089-0703
               


              From: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com [mailto:agile-usability@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of silvana@...
              Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:51 AM
              To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
              Cc: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [agile-usability] Re: new Yahoo! groups design


              Aviva, Jeff and all,

              I am with Yahoo-Inc. and would he happy to pass on any suggestions to
              the right group.

              You can mail it to my email address: wasitova@... .

              --
              Silvana Wasitova - silvana@... - 408.258.9193


              > -------- Original Message
              --------
              > Subject: [agile-usability] Re: new Yahoo! groups design
              >
              From: "Jeff Patton" <jpatton@...>
              > Date: Thu, May 12, 2005
              10:44 am
              > To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > This list
              does have a lot of Yahoo-inc subscribers.  I think they're
              >
              listening in.  Aviva, what do you think about YahooGroups new look
              >
              and feel? 
              >
              > Personally, I like the look.  But, there
              a few interactions I'd like
              > to see changed.  What's been done
              mostly looks like freshening up the
              > branding - not improving
              usability.
              >
              > -Jeff
              >
              > --- In
              agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Sue Heim" <sue_heim@m...>
              >
              wrote:
              > > Collectively, I don't like it. I think it's lost a bit in
              the
              > usability
              > > department. I've filed a note with Yahoo!
              but I doubt if they'll
              > listen...
              > >
              > >
              ...sue
              > >
              > > >From: "David J Anderson"
              <netherby_uk@y...>
              > > >Reply-To:
              agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
              > > >To:
              agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
              > > >Subject: [agile-usability] new
              Yahoo! groups design
              > > >Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 16:53:56
              -0000
              > > >
              > > >By any chance is the designer of the
              new look Yahoo! groups
              > website a
              > > >member of this
              list?
              > > >
              > > >How do we collectively feel about the
              usability of the new design?
              > > >
              > > >David
              > > >http://www.uidesign.net/
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              >
              >
              >
              >

              > Yahoo! Groups
              Links
              >
              >
              >



            • David J Anderson
              I started this thread because though I like the new look, I feel it has lost a lot in usability - to the point where I feel some basic usability discipline was
              Message 6 of 11 , May 13, 2005
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                I started this thread because though I like the new look, I feel it
                has lost a lot in usability - to the point where I feel some basic
                usability discipline was simply ignored.

                As a heavy Yahoo! groups user, I am subscribed to around 15 groups,
                several of which have heavy traffic at times. So I use the website
                interface to manage that - rather than have my inbox spammed. I am
                guessing that a persona fitting my description was never part of the
                Yahoo! team's analysis.

                So, now when I login I'm presented with a hot list of my groups,
                which is alphabetically sorted. So I get to see the first 10 or so
                groups by alphabetical order - note, not by usage order or by recent
                activity order but by the completely arbitrary (in this scenario)
                alphabetical order.

                I am presented with a link which says "Show All". This link would
                appear to let me see the other groups I can't see on the hot list.
                So I press that link because I want to see one of my favorite
                groups "TOCLeaders" which appears towards the end of my alphabetical
                list.

                What do I get next?

                Yep, you guessed it, a page with all the same information I can
                already see, with an enumerated list of page links at the bottom. To
                see that other groups I couldn't see at first, I need to scroll down
                and press "2".

                Compared to the old interface this is way more overhead and extra
                clicks.

                In general I seem to be clicking and scrolling a lot more than
                before.

                Way back in the day - when we all envied Jakob Nielsen his traffic,
                his billing rate and idolized his wisdom and his prolific rate of
                production - Yahoo! got praised for its "doesn't look great but heck
                is it fast and usable" interface. What happened to the ethos that
                created that?

                Frustrated Yahoo! groups power user and group owner,

                David
                http://www.uidesign.net/
                http://www.agilemanagement.net/

                --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Aviva Rosenstein"
                <aviva@y...> wrote:
                > Hi Jeff, Silvana, and all y'all:
                >
                > This is embarrasing to admit, but I haven't actually seen the new
                Groups
                > look yet. (I just have Group mail forwarded to another account so
                I rarely
                > have a chance to explore that part of the network.) I've been
                heads down in
                > another project in another part of the organization for the last
                several
                > weeks.
                >
                > But I'd love to hear your suggestions too -- so please cc me when
                you send
                > them to Silvana.
                > Aviva
                >
                > ___________________________
                > Aviva Rosenstein, Ph.D.
                > Design Researcher
                >
                > Yahoo! Inc.
                > 701 First Avenue
                > Sunnyvale, CA, 94089-0703
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:agile-usability@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of silvana@w...
                > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:51 AM
                > To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                > Cc: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: RE: [agile-usability] Re: new Yahoo! groups design
                >
                >
                >
                > Aviva, Jeff and all,
                >
                > I am with Yahoo-Inc. and would he happy to pass on any suggestions
                to
                > the right group.
                >
                > You can mail it to my email address: wasitova@y... .
                >
                > --
                > Silvana Wasitova - silvana@w... - 408.258.9193
                >
                >
                > > -------- Original Message --------
                > > Subject: [agile-usability] Re: new Yahoo! groups design
                > > From: "Jeff Patton" <jpatton@a...>
                > > Date: Thu, May 12, 2005 10:44 am
                > > To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > > This list does have a lot of Yahoo-inc subscribers. I think
                they're
                > > listening in. Aviva, what do you think about YahooGroups new
                look
                > > and feel?
                > >
                > > Personally, I like the look. But, there a few interactions I'd
                like
                > > to see changed. What's been done mostly looks like freshening
                up the
                > > branding - not improving usability.
                > >
                > > -Jeff
                > >
                > > --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Sue Heim"
                <sue_heim@m...>
                > > wrote:
                > > > Collectively, I don't like it. I think it's lost a bit in the
                > > usability
                > > > department. I've filed a note with Yahoo! but I doubt if
                they'll
                > > listen...
                > > >
                > > > ...sue
                > > >
                > > > >From: "David J Anderson" <netherby_uk@y...>
                > > > >Reply-To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                > > > >To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                > > > >Subject: [agile-usability] new Yahoo! groups design
                > > > >Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 16:53:56 -0000
                > > > >
                > > > >By any chance is the designer of the new look Yahoo! groups
                > > website a
                > > > >member of this list?
                > > > >
                > > > >How do we collectively feel about the usability of the new
                design?
                > > > >
                > > > >David
                > > > >http://www.uidesign.net/
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/agile-usability/
                >
                >
                > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > agile-usability-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:agile-usability-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                subject=Unsubscribe>
                >
                >
                > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                Service
                > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
              • Sue Heim (Home)
                I ve been a power user of Yahoo! Groups for some time now, too. And I do think usability took a big hit when they redesigned. First of all... David, you CAN
                Message 7 of 11 , May 13, 2005
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                  I've been a "power user" of Yahoo! Groups for some time now, too. And I do
                  think usability took a big hit when they redesigned.

                  First of all... David, you CAN manage the order in which groups are
                  displayed. When you are logged in and at the main groups.yahoo.com page, at
                  the bottom of the list of your groups are a couple of links: Organize and
                  Simplify/Expand. Click Organize to move the order of groups around so that
                  the ones you want to access most are at the top. Click Simplify if you are
                  seeing the logo graphic that is attached to any group (which makes that list
                  ever so much longer to view!). Expand allows you to see the pix again if
                  you've "simplified" the view. (View All is available when you are in the
                  expanded view, if there are more groups available than can fit in the list.)

                  I think they've changed a few things from how it originally was redesigned.
                  Plus I think I've finally gotten used to it. But I do miss the old, slightly
                  ugly but very efficient, Yahoo! Groups!

                  ...sue


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "David J Anderson" <netherby_uk@...>
                  To: <agile-usability@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:22 AM
                  Subject: [agile-usability] Re: new Yahoo! groups design


                  > I started this thread because though I like the new look, I feel it
                  > has lost a lot in usability - to the point where I feel some basic
                  > usability discipline was simply ignored.
                  >
                  > As a heavy Yahoo! groups user, I am subscribed to around 15 groups,
                  > several of which have heavy traffic at times. So I use the website
                  > interface to manage that - rather than have my inbox spammed. I am
                  > guessing that a persona fitting my description was never part of the
                  > Yahoo! team's analysis.
                  >
                  > So, now when I login I'm presented with a hot list of my groups,
                  > which is alphabetically sorted. So I get to see the first 10 or so
                  > groups by alphabetical order - note, not by usage order or by recent
                  > activity order but by the completely arbitrary (in this scenario)
                  > alphabetical order.
                  >
                  > I am presented with a link which says "Show All". This link would
                  > appear to let me see the other groups I can't see on the hot list.
                  > So I press that link because I want to see one of my favorite
                  > groups "TOCLeaders" which appears towards the end of my alphabetical
                  > list.
                  >
                  > What do I get next?
                  >
                  > Yep, you guessed it, a page with all the same information I can
                  > already see, with an enumerated list of page links at the bottom. To
                  > see that other groups I couldn't see at first, I need to scroll down
                  > and press "2".
                  >
                  > Compared to the old interface this is way more overhead and extra
                  > clicks.
                  >
                  > In general I seem to be clicking and scrolling a lot more than
                  > before.
                  >
                  > Way back in the day - when we all envied Jakob Nielsen his traffic,
                  > his billing rate and idolized his wisdom and his prolific rate of
                  > production - Yahoo! got praised for its "doesn't look great but heck
                  > is it fast and usable" interface. What happened to the ethos that
                  > created that?
                  >
                  > Frustrated Yahoo! groups power user and group owner,
                  >
                  > David
                  > http://www.uidesign.net/
                  > http://www.agilemanagement.net/
                  >
                  > --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Aviva Rosenstein"
                  > <aviva@y...> wrote:
                  > > Hi Jeff, Silvana, and all y'all:
                  > >
                  > > This is embarrasing to admit, but I haven't actually seen the new
                  > Groups
                  > > look yet. (I just have Group mail forwarded to another account so
                  > I rarely
                  > > have a chance to explore that part of the network.) I've been
                  > heads down in
                  > > another project in another part of the organization for the last
                  > several
                  > > weeks.
                  > >
                  > > But I'd love to hear your suggestions too -- so please cc me when
                  > you send
                  > > them to Silvana.
                  > > Aviva
                  > >
                  > > ___________________________
                  > > Aviva Rosenstein, Ph.D.
                  > > Design Researcher
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Inc.
                  > > 701 First Avenue
                  > > Sunnyvale, CA, 94089-0703
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > _____
                  > >
                  > > From: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                  > > [mailto:agile-usability@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of silvana@w...
                  > > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:51 AM
                  > > To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Cc: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: RE: [agile-usability] Re: new Yahoo! groups design
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Aviva, Jeff and all,
                  > >
                  > > I am with Yahoo-Inc. and would he happy to pass on any suggestions
                  > to
                  > > the right group.
                  > >
                  > > You can mail it to my email address: wasitova@y... .
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > Silvana Wasitova - silvana@w... - 408.258.9193
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > -------- Original Message --------
                  > > > Subject: [agile-usability] Re: new Yahoo! groups design
                  > > > From: "Jeff Patton" <jpatton@a...>
                  > > > Date: Thu, May 12, 2005 10:44 am
                  > > > To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >
                  > > > This list does have a lot of Yahoo-inc subscribers. I think
                  > they're
                  > > > listening in. Aviva, what do you think about YahooGroups new
                  > look
                  > > > and feel?
                  > > >
                  > > > Personally, I like the look. But, there a few interactions I'd
                  > like
                  > > > to see changed. What's been done mostly looks like freshening
                  > up the
                  > > > branding - not improving usability.
                  > > >
                  > > > -Jeff
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Sue Heim"
                  > <sue_heim@m...>
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > > Collectively, I don't like it. I think it's lost a bit in the
                  > > > usability
                  > > > > department. I've filed a note with Yahoo! but I doubt if
                  > they'll
                  > > > listen...
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ...sue
                  > > > >
                  > > > > >From: "David J Anderson" <netherby_uk@y...>
                  > > > > >Reply-To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > >To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > >Subject: [agile-usability] new Yahoo! groups design
                  > > > > >Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 16:53:56 -0000
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >By any chance is the designer of the new look Yahoo! groups
                  > > > website a
                  > > > > >member of this list?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >How do we collectively feel about the usability of the new
                  > design?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >David
                  > > > > >http://www.uidesign.net/
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > _____
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/agile-usability/
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > agile-usability-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > <mailto:agile-usability-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                  > subject=Unsubscribe>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  > Service
                  > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Jon Kern
                  i personally only use the email mode ;=) maybe they don t get much website usage of their groups? so they ignored that user class? BTW: TOCLeader? Table of
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 14, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    i personally only use the email mode ;=)
                    maybe they don't get much website usage of their groups? so they ignored that user class?

                    BTW: TOCLeader?  Table of Contents group? <g>

                    I just clicked on "My Groups"

                    initial reaction:
                        Why all the vertical height for the expanded view?

                    Regarding alphabetical sorting...
                    • when there is only one way to sort something, why bother?
                      • if it is alphabetical and i want something at the Z end, i can scroll down rather than reverse sort (and take a server roundtrip "o=0" or "o=1")
                      • all this feature does is to reveal a weakness in the lack of sorting options. i would have left it unsortable
                    • I see you can also sort by profile name, email, msg delivery.
                      • did any user ask for this?
                      • you should track it's usage via the webstats
                    Seems like a bit of engineering to make finding things easier is in order to help David out:
                    • Add more sorting of the groups (than alphabetical)
                    • Allow user to set order of appearance of each group
                    • Allow sorting by "recent messages count"
                    • Allow sorting by most activity for yourself (i.e., you post to some groups a lot more than others)
                    • what about a mini-list of groups in the left-hand navbar when you are looking at a group's messages?
                    -- jon
                    
                    


                    David J Anderson said the following on 5/13/2005 12:22 PM:
                    I started this thread because though I like the new look, I feel it
                    has lost a lot in usability - to the point where I feel some basic
                    usability discipline was simply ignored.

                    As a heavy Yahoo! groups user, I am subscribed to around 15 groups,
                    several of which have heavy traffic at times. So I use the website
                    interface to manage that - rather than have my inbox spammed. I am
                    guessing that a persona fitting my description was never part of the
                    Yahoo! team's analysis.

                    So, now when I login I'm presented with a hot list of my groups,
                    which is alphabetically sorted. So I get to see the first 10 or so
                    groups by alphabetical order - note, not by usage order or by recent
                    activity order but by the completely arbitrary (in this scenario)
                    alphabetical order.

                    I am presented with a link which says "Show All". This link would
                    appear to let me see the other groups I can't see on the hot list.
                    So I press that link because I want to see one of my favorite
                    groups "TOCLeaders" which appears towards the end of my alphabetical
                    list.

                    What do I get next?

                    Yep, you guessed it, a page with all the same information I can
                    already see, with an enumerated list of page links at the bottom. To
                    see that other groups I couldn't see at first, I need to scroll down
                    and press "2".

                    Compared to the old interface this is way more overhead and extra
                    clicks.

                    In general I seem to be clicking and scrolling a lot more than
                    before.

                    Way back in the day - when we all envied Jakob Nielsen his traffic,
                    his billing rate and idolized his wisdom and his prolific rate of
                    production - Yahoo! got praised for its "doesn't look great but heck
                    is it fast and usable" interface. What happened to the ethos that
                    created that?

                    Frustrated Yahoo! groups power user and group owner,

                    David
                    http://www.uidesign.net/
                    http://www.agilemanagement.net/

                    --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Aviva Rosenstein"
                    <aviva@y...> wrote:
                    > Hi Jeff, Silvana, and all y'all:

                    > This is embarrasing to admit, but I haven't actually seen the new
                    Groups
                    > look yet. (I just have Group mail forwarded to another account so
                    I rarely
                    > have a chance to explore that part of the network.) I've been
                    heads down in
                    > another project in another part of the organization for the last
                    several
                    > weeks.

                    > But I'd love to hear your suggestions too -- so please cc me when
                    you send
                    > them to Silvana.
                    > Aviva

                    > ___________________________
                    > Aviva Rosenstein, Ph.D.
                    > Design Researcher

                    > Yahoo! Inc.
                    > 701 First Avenue
                    > Sunnyvale, CA, 94089-0703

                    >
                    >   _____ 
                    >
                    > From: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:agile-usability@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of silvana@w...
                    > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:51 AM
                    > To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                    > Cc: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: RE: [agile-usability] Re: new Yahoo! groups design
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Aviva, Jeff and all,
                    >
                    > I am with Yahoo-Inc. and would he happy to pass on any suggestions
                    to
                    > the right group.
                    >
                    > You can mail it to my email address: wasitova@y... .
                    >
                    > --
                    > Silvana Wasitova - silvana@w... - 408.258.9193
                    >
                    >
                    > > -------- Original Message --------
                    > > Subject: [agile-usability] Re: new Yahoo! groups design
                    > > From: "Jeff Patton" <jpatton@a...>
                    > > Date: Thu, May 12, 2005 10:44 am
                    > > To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > > This list does have a lot of Yahoo-inc subscribers.  I think
                    they're
                    > > listening in.  Aviva, what do you think about YahooGroups new
                    look
                    > > and feel? 
                    > >
                    > > Personally, I like the look.  But, there a few interactions I'd
                    like
                    > > to see changed.  What's been done mostly looks like freshening
                    up the
                    > > branding - not improving usability.
                    > >
                    > > -Jeff
                    > >
                    > > --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Sue Heim"
                    <sue_heim@m...>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > > Collectively, I don't like it. I think it's lost a bit in the
                    > > usability
                    > > > department. I've filed a note with Yahoo! but I doubt if
                    they'll
                    > > listen...
                    > > >
                    > > > ...sue
                    > > >
                    > > > >From: "David J Anderson" <netherby_uk@y...>
                    > > > >Reply-To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > >To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > >Subject: [agile-usability] new Yahoo! groups design
                    > > > >Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 16:53:56 -0000
                    > > > >
                    > > > >By any chance is the designer of the new look Yahoo! groups
                    > > website a
                    > > > >member of this list?
                    > > > >
                    > > > >How do we collectively feel about the usability of the new
                    design?
                    > > > >
                    > > > >David
                    > > > >http://www.uidesign.net/
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > 
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >   _____ 
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    > *      To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/agile-usability/
                    >  
                    >
                    > *      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > agile-usability-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > <mailto:agile-usability-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                    subject=Unsubscribe>
                    >  
                    >
                    > *      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    Service
                    > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


                  • Jared M. Spool
                    ... A few weeks ago, I wrote and published this article about an experience we had at a recent client engagement: Designing Embraceable Change 03/28/2005
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 14, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      At 02:42 PM 5/13/2005, Sue Heim wrote:
                      >I think they've changed a few things from how it originally was redesigned.
                      >Plus I think I've finally gotten used to it. But I do miss the old, slightly
                      >ugly but very efficient, Yahoo! Groups!


                      A few weeks ago, I wrote and published this article about an experience we
                      had at a recent client engagement:

                      Designing Embraceable Change 03/28/2005

                      Design is all about change -- hopefully changing for the better. None of
                      us set
                      out to make things worse from the get-go. Yet, as we know all too well,
                      that
                      isn't how it always works out. Jared M. Spool discusses how to introduce
                      design
                      changes that will be embraced, not resisted.
                      http://www.uie.com/articles/embraceable_change/

                      Within hours of publishing it, I received dozens of people telling me that
                      the folks at Yahoo! Groups should've paid attention to this. (I was aware
                      of the change to Yahoo! Groups, but hadn't used it enough to understand how
                      much impact their changes were having on the community of users.)

                      I'm unaware of any formalized process that ensures the team takes this kind
                      of impact into account when planning their design.

                      Jared

                      Jared M. Spool, Founding Principal
                      User Interface Engineering
                      4 Lookout Lane, Unit 4d
                      Middleton, MA 01949
                      978 777-9123
                      jspool@...
                      http://www.uie.com
                    • David J Anderson
                      How about a do no harm rule for professional user experience people? This would involve benchmarking usability for a number of key scenarios for each persona
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 16, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        How about a "do no harm" rule for professional user experience
                        people?

                        This would involve benchmarking usability for a number of key
                        scenarios for each persona in the design. These would be tested as
                        key critical to quality acceptance factors. If the results were
                        worse than before then the design needs to be reverted or changed
                        again.

                        A rule like this would certainly encourage prototyping of UI designs
                        because no one wants to refactor the finished code to fix a bad
                        design change.

                        David
                        http://www.uidesign.net/
                        http://www.agilemanagement.net/


                        --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Jared M. Spool"
                        <jspool@u...> wrote:
                        > At 02:42 PM 5/13/2005, Sue Heim wrote:
                        > >I think they've changed a few things from how it originally was
                        redesigned.
                        > >Plus I think I've finally gotten used to it. But I do miss the
                        old, slightly
                        > >ugly but very efficient, Yahoo! Groups!
                        >
                        >
                        > A few weeks ago, I wrote and published this article about an
                        experience we
                        > had at a recent client engagement:
                        >
                        > Designing Embraceable Change 03/28/2005
                        >
                        > Design is all about change -- hopefully changing for the
                        better. None of
                        > us set
                        > out to make things worse from the get-go. Yet, as we know all
                        too well,
                        > that
                        > isn't how it always works out. Jared M. Spool discusses how to
                        introduce
                        > design
                        > changes that will be embraced, not resisted.
                        > http://www.uie.com/articles/embraceable_change/
                        >
                        > Within hours of publishing it, I received dozens of people telling
                        me that
                        > the folks at Yahoo! Groups should've paid attention to this. (I
                        was aware
                        > of the change to Yahoo! Groups, but hadn't used it enough to
                        understand how
                        > much impact their changes were having on the community of users.)
                        >
                        > I'm unaware of any formalized process that ensures the team takes
                        this kind
                        > of impact into account when planning their design.
                        >
                        > Jared
                        >
                        > Jared M. Spool, Founding Principal
                        > User Interface Engineering
                        > 4 Lookout Lane, Unit 4d
                        > Middleton, MA 01949
                        > 978 777-9123
                        > jspool@u...
                        > http://www.uie.com
                      • David J Anderson
                        Thanks! Some great tips. ... And I do ... page, at ... Organize and ... so that ... you are ... that list ... again if ... in the ... the list.) ...
                        Message 11 of 11 , May 16, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Thanks! Some great tips.

                          --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Sue Heim \(Home\)"
                          <sue_heim@m...> wrote:
                          > I've been a "power user" of Yahoo! Groups for some time now, too.
                          And I do
                          > think usability took a big hit when they redesigned.
                          >
                          > First of all... David, you CAN manage the order in which groups are
                          > displayed. When you are logged in and at the main groups.yahoo.com
                          page, at
                          > the bottom of the list of your groups are a couple of links:
                          Organize and
                          > Simplify/Expand. Click Organize to move the order of groups around
                          so that
                          > the ones you want to access most are at the top. Click Simplify if
                          you are
                          > seeing the logo graphic that is attached to any group (which makes
                          that list
                          > ever so much longer to view!). Expand allows you to see the pix
                          again if
                          > you've "simplified" the view. (View All is available when you are
                          in the
                          > expanded view, if there are more groups available than can fit in
                          the list.)
                          >
                          > I think they've changed a few things from how it originally was
                          redesigned.
                          > Plus I think I've finally gotten used to it. But I do miss the
                          old, slightly
                          > ugly but very efficient, Yahoo! Groups!
                          >
                          > ...sue
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "David J Anderson" <netherby_uk@y...>
                          > To: <agile-usability@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:22 AM
                          > Subject: [agile-usability] Re: new Yahoo! groups design
                          >
                          >
                          > > I started this thread because though I like the new look, I feel
                          it
                          > > has lost a lot in usability - to the point where I feel some
                          basic
                          > > usability discipline was simply ignored.
                          > >
                          > > As a heavy Yahoo! groups user, I am subscribed to around 15
                          groups,
                          > > several of which have heavy traffic at times. So I use the
                          website
                          > > interface to manage that - rather than have my inbox spammed. I
                          am
                          > > guessing that a persona fitting my description was never part of
                          the
                          > > Yahoo! team's analysis.
                          > >
                          > > So, now when I login I'm presented with a hot list of my groups,
                          > > which is alphabetically sorted. So I get to see the first 10 or
                          so
                          > > groups by alphabetical order - note, not by usage order or by
                          recent
                          > > activity order but by the completely arbitrary (in this scenario)
                          > > alphabetical order.
                          > >
                          > > I am presented with a link which says "Show All". This link would
                          > > appear to let me see the other groups I can't see on the hot
                          list.
                          > > So I press that link because I want to see one of my favorite
                          > > groups "TOCLeaders" which appears towards the end of my
                          alphabetical
                          > > list.
                          > >
                          > > What do I get next?
                          > >
                          > > Yep, you guessed it, a page with all the same information I can
                          > > already see, with an enumerated list of page links at the
                          bottom. To
                          > > see that other groups I couldn't see at first, I need to scroll
                          down
                          > > and press "2".
                          > >
                          > > Compared to the old interface this is way more overhead and extra
                          > > clicks.
                          > >
                          > > In general I seem to be clicking and scrolling a lot more than
                          > > before.
                          > >
                          > > Way back in the day - when we all envied Jakob Nielsen his
                          traffic,
                          > > his billing rate and idolized his wisdom and his prolific rate of
                          > > production - Yahoo! got praised for its "doesn't look great but
                          heck
                          > > is it fast and usable" interface. What happened to the ethos that
                          > > created that?
                          > >
                          > > Frustrated Yahoo! groups power user and group owner,
                          > >
                          > > David
                          > > http://www.uidesign.net/
                          > > http://www.agilemanagement.net/
                          > >
                          > > --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Aviva Rosenstein"
                          > > <aviva@y...> wrote:
                          > > > Hi Jeff, Silvana, and all y'all:
                          > > >
                          > > > This is embarrasing to admit, but I haven't actually seen the
                          new
                          > > Groups
                          > > > look yet. (I just have Group mail forwarded to another account
                          so
                          > > I rarely
                          > > > have a chance to explore that part of the network.) I've been
                          > > heads down in
                          > > > another project in another part of the organization for the
                          last
                          > > several
                          > > > weeks.
                          > > >
                          > > > But I'd love to hear your suggestions too -- so please cc me
                          when
                          > > you send
                          > > > them to Silvana.
                          > > > Aviva
                          > > >
                          > > > ___________________________
                          > > > Aviva Rosenstein, Ph.D.
                          > > > Design Researcher
                          > > >
                          > > > Yahoo! Inc.
                          > > > 701 First Avenue
                          > > > Sunnyvale, CA, 94089-0703
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > _____
                          > > >
                          > > > From: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > [mailto:agile-usability@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                          silvana@w...
                          > > > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:51 AM
                          > > > To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Cc: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Subject: RE: [agile-usability] Re: new Yahoo! groups design
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Aviva, Jeff and all,
                          > > >
                          > > > I am with Yahoo-Inc. and would he happy to pass on any
                          suggestions
                          > > to
                          > > > the right group.
                          > > >
                          > > > You can mail it to my email address: wasitova@y... .
                          > > >
                          > > > --
                          > > > Silvana Wasitova - silvana@w... - 408.258.9193
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > > -------- Original Message --------
                          > > > > Subject: [agile-usability] Re: new Yahoo! groups design
                          > > > > From: "Jeff Patton" <jpatton@a...>
                          > > > > Date: Thu, May 12, 2005 10:44 am
                          > > > > To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > >
                          > > > > This list does have a lot of Yahoo-inc subscribers. I think
                          > > they're
                          > > > > listening in. Aviva, what do you think about YahooGroups new
                          > > look
                          > > > > and feel?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Personally, I like the look. But, there a few interactions
                          I'd
                          > > like
                          > > > > to see changed. What's been done mostly looks like
                          freshening
                          > > up the
                          > > > > branding - not improving usability.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > -Jeff
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In agile-usability@yahoogroups.com, "Sue Heim"
                          > > <sue_heim@m...>
                          > > > > wrote:
                          > > > > > Collectively, I don't like it. I think it's lost a bit in
                          the
                          > > > > usability
                          > > > > > department. I've filed a note with Yahoo! but I doubt if
                          > > they'll
                          > > > > listen...
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > ...sue
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > >From: "David J Anderson" <netherby_uk@y...>
                          > > > > > >Reply-To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > > >To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > > >Subject: [agile-usability] new Yahoo! groups design
                          > > > > > >Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 16:53:56 -0000
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >By any chance is the designer of the new look Yahoo!
                          groups
                          > > > > website a
                          > > > > > >member of this list?
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >How do we collectively feel about the usability of the new
                          > > design?
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >David
                          > > > > > >http://www.uidesign.net/
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > _____
                          > > >
                          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/agile-usability/
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > > > agile-usability-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > <mailto:agile-usability-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                          > > subject=Unsubscribe>
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                          > > Service
                          > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
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