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3518RE: [agile-usability] Re: versus collocated teams

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  • Desilets, Alain
    Jun 5, 2007
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      Hi guys,

      As much as I have enjoyed this thread, I think it may be time to bring
      it to a close.

      Lots of really good points and views have been expressed and shared (on
      both sides of the issue) and I don't think anyone is going to be able to
      convince anyone else by pounding on the same arguments over and over
      again (btw: I love that "Sam is not a good change agent" bit ;-)).

      Maybe we should just leave it at that, take in what we have heard and
      let it simmer for a while.


      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:agile-usability@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Jeffries
      > Sent: June 5, 2007 9:43 AM
      > To: agile-usability@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [agile-usability] Re: versus collocated teams
      > Hello, Owen. On Tuesday, June 5, 2007, at 8:43:28 AM, you wrote:
      > >> Please explain clearly how it could be better for the customer to
      > >> have you, a long way away, [rather than] someone just as
      > good as you,
      > >> right there.
      > > I probably can't. I don't have enough experience at managing
      > > personalities. I have already outlined three areas where I
      > think there
      > > might be a logical benefit in terms of cost reduction, access to a
      > > larger pool of resources, and ease of reconfigurability,
      > but these are
      > > just assertions. You know they are not backed up with the
      > 'experience'
      > > that you have.
      > My point is that you, the remote guy, have to be somehow "better"
      > than a local guy. If someone you want to work for can find
      > someone who is "just as good" as you are, and who wants to be
      > present, it seems that such an individual will inherently be
      > more "desirable" to someone who is recruiting.
      > If that is true, and I believe it is, it should get you
      > thinking in a different direction. You appear now to be
      > thinking "Hey, it's just as good to be remote," despite the
      > fact that the entire universe seems to be aligned against you
      > on the other side of that line.
      > Instead, it would seem to me to stop railing against (what I
      > and many others perceive to be) reality, and instead start
      > figuring out ways to offer things which will not likely be
      > available locally.
      > That might be some specialized skills, or just generally high
      > power of some kind: I don't know.
      > It would be a very tough sale for me. I would frankly prefer
      > someone "rather good and local" over someone "very good and
      > far away", because I've worked both ways and value the
      > interactions that highly. Others might not find it quite such
      > a tough sale, but I'm suggesting to you that it will be a sale.
      > You are taking something off the table in the negotiation:
      > easy face to face access. To make your sale, I think you'll
      > need to put something back on the table that your customer
      > will value at least that highly.
      > > I don't follow Rugby Union: where the term Scrum comes
      > from. However,
      > > Allan Jones coached the Australian Rugby team. He isn't a
      > role model
      > > of mine. In fact in all ways but one possibly, it appears
      > that he is
      > > my antithesis. He lead Australia to successive Bledisloe Cup, Tri
      > > Nations, and World Cup victories. Read an unauthorised
      > biography put
      > > together about him recently.
      > > He had a saying that went something like this: "Play the
      > ball, not the
      > > man". I'm not sure that trying to discredit me will win
      > your argument
      > > in the long-run...
      > I'm not trying to discredit you. I'm trying to help you to
      > observe what you are saying and to begin to find ways to get
      > what you want.
      > > I'm feeling a bit threatened by your persistent questioning, please
      > > forgive me if I have misread the situation.
      > That pain you feel might be an indication that you're holding
      > your head in the wrong position ...
      > Ron Jeffries
      > www.XProgramming.com
      > I cannot find my duck.
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
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