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Another Mystery(Tamil unicode)

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  • jay bee
    அன்பர்களே, மிகவும் பழமையான பொருள்கள்/விஷயங்கள் பற்றிச்
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 1, 2011
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      அன்பர்களே,

      மிகவும் பழமையான பொருள்கள்/விஷயங்கள் பற்றிச் சொல்லும்போது அவற்றைத் தமிழர்கள்
      சில அடைமொழிகளைச் சொல்லி, குறிப்பிடுவதுண்டு.

      பத்தாம்பசலி
      கர்நாடகம்
      ஹைதர் அலி காலத்தது

      சிவகங்கைச் சீமையின் ஒரு சிறுபகுதியில் மட்டும் மிக மிகப் புராதனமானவற்றைக்
      குறிப்பிட வேறுவகையாகச் சொல்வார்கள்.

      காராளங் காலத்தது என்பார்கள்.

      பாண்டியருக்கும் முற்பட்டவர்களாக இவர்களைச் சொல்வார்கள்.
      இவர்கள் யார்?
      எந்தக் குடியினர்?
      குடியினரா அல்லது கூட்டத்தினரா?
      அவர்கள் என்ன ஆனார்கள்?

      மேற்கூறிய வட்டாரத்துக்குக் காராளஞ்சீமை என்ற பெயர்கூட வழங்குகிறது.
      (இது ஒரு Hint/Clue)

      அன்புடன்

      ஜெயபாரதி
    • Rasainthiran Menayah
      Please Dr. don t tell me that this is Kedah? Kedah has indeed a long history with Cholan Dynasty of Tamil Nadu and this means that Sivagangai was also a part
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 1, 2011
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        Please Dr. don't tell me that this is Kedah?
        Kedah has indeed a long history with Cholan Dynasty of Tamil Nadu and this
        means that Sivagangai was also a part of this history? Great news if it can
        be authenticated.

        Rajan


        2011/1/2 jay bee <jaybee011008@...>

        >
        >
        > அன்பர்களே,
        >
        > மிகவும் பழமையான பொருள்கள்/விஷயங்கள் பற்றிச் சொல்லும்போது அவற்றைத் தமிழர்கள்
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • jay bee
        On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Rasainthiran Menayah
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 2, 2011
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          On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Rasainthiran Menayah <
          rasainthiran@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Please Dr. don't tell me that this is Kedah?
          > Kedah has indeed a long history with Cholan Dynasty of Tamil Nadu and this
          > means that Sivagangai was also a part of this history? Great news if it can
          > be authenticated.
          >
          > Rajan
          >

          Why do you say that Kedah has a long history with Cholan Dynasty?
          How long is 'long history'?
          How does this mean that Sivagangai is part of this history? How is it
          connected?

          Regards

          JayBee




          >
          > 2011/1/2 jay bee <jaybee011008@... <jaybee011008%40gmail.com>>
          >
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > அன்பர்களே,
          > >
          > > மிகவும் பழமையான பொருள்கள்/விஷயங்கள் பற்றிச் சொல்லும்போது அவற்றைத்
          > தமிழர்கள்
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Nandakumar Selvaraj
          Sir,  I am guessing Kaaraalankalathu could probably related to Kalabirar . Is Kalakudi & kalapalarayars related to Kalabhras? Maybe I am not adding value
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 4, 2011
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            Sir,
             I am guessing Kaaraalankalathu could probably related to "Kalabirar". Is
            Kalakudi & kalapalarayars related to Kalabhras? Maybe I am not adding value
            here?


            Regards

            Nanda
            http://jobdealsinfo.ning.com





            ________________________________
            From: jay bee <jaybee011008@...>
            To: agathiyar@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sun, 2 January, 2011 5:33:15 AM
            Subject: [agathiyar] Another Mystery(Tamil unicode)

             
            அன்பர்களே,

            மிகவும் பழமையான பொருள்கள்/விஷயங்கள் பற்றிச் சொல்லும்போது அவற்றைத் தமிழர்கள்
            சில அடைமொழிகளைச் சொல்லி, குறிப்பிடுவதுண்டு.

            பத்தாம்பசலி
            கர்நாடகம்
            ஹைதர் அலி காலத்தது

            சிவகங்கைச் சீமையின் ஒரு சிறுபகுதியில் மட்டும் மிக மிகப் புராதனமானவற்றைக்
            குறிப்பிட வேறுவகையாகச் சொல்வார்கள்.

            காராளங் காலத்தது என்பார்கள்.

            பாண்டியருக்கும் முற்பட்டவர்களாக இவர்களைச் சொல்வார்கள்.
            இவர்கள் யார்?
            எந்தக் குடியினர்?
            குடியினரா அல்லது கூட்டத்தினரா?
            அவர்கள் என்ன ஆனார்கள்?

            மேற்கூறிய வட்டாரத்துக்குக் காராளஞ்சீமை என்ற பெயர்கூட வழங்குகிறது.
            (இது ஒரு Hint/Clue)

            அன்புடன்

            ஜெயபாரதி





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Rasainthiran Menayah
            Dear Dr. It is a well know history that the Cholan kingdom came to conquest to south east Asia and this was during 8th century AD, and they were Siva
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 6, 2011
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              Dear Dr.

              It is a well know history that the Cholan kingdom came to conquest to south
              east Asia and this was during 8th century AD, and they were Siva worshipers.
              However, the Chinese Buddhist travelers (Fa hien - 399 - 414); (San Yun -
              518); (Hiuen Thsang - 629-645) and (I-tsing - 673 -695) had very well
              recorded history of India, Jaya and also of Malaya.

              None of them talk about Kedah, but that is one of the Malay states that has
              a more or less pure Siva based culture. During my visit in 1985, I was lucky
              to see some Sivalingams (and took photographs) of the pre Gupta Dynasty
              Sivalingams there.

              The iconography of the Sivalingam from the pre to post Gupta era is an
              interesting feature. But most of the Sivalingam of the Greater Cholan era
              are of the post Gupta era. Thus the lingams at Kedah must have came to Kedah
              before the 8th century Greater Cholan Kingdom.

              Now Ceran and Pandian history does not extend into South East Asia. The
              Pallavar history does, but they are after Cholan and more inclined to Vishnu
              and and their Siva manifestation is much different.

              *Thus there are only two ways the Kedah Sivalingam could have come to the
              Malay States.
              *
              **Northern Indians worshiping Siva before the pre Gupta era *- which is too
              unlikely for me to accept (or) some *minor Cholan Kingdom following their
              usual Siva worshiping* coming to the Malay States, before the Major Cholan
              Dynansty took power.

              The clue for us here in the icon of the Sivalingam. It is not possible for
              Ceran, Pandian and the Pallavars to erect pre Gupta Siva icons. Thus the
              only clue we have is Cholan Dynasty - era of which is not very clear as
              Malaysia is not keen to go into an in depth study on this Chandi of Kedah.


              *The Sivagangai is a clue which I am taking from your writing. *That is very
              new news to me and having heard of you much before, must have been
              researched by you. I am just trying to connect these messages, that is why I
              was asking a question from you.

              *Are they connected in any way?
              I am sure you must have a reason to give this clue to the readers here.*

              Thanks,

              Rajan
              ,
              *Note:* If it was Northern India, then Kalinga could be one of the states. I
              have not done any history study on this state before Asoka, thus would be
              interesting to do some reading up after your essay.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • jay bee
              I am of the opinion that you need to read a lot of proper source material and also history put forth by the Malays, Javanese, Khmers, and the Chinese also.
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 6, 2011
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                I am of the opinion that you need to read a lot of proper source material
                and also
                history put forth by the Malays, Javanese, Khmers, and the Chinese also.
                Then you have to study them and analyse and correlate.
                Giving too much weightage to Imperial Cholzas and down-playing others is not
                good historical perspective.
                What is pre-gupta and how do you identify them?

                40000 Buddhist votary tablets have been found in Kedah/Perlis. There are
                several incriptions which belong to the Buddhist. And also statues and
                relics, apart from Buddhist temples and stupas.

                Why do you harp on only Saivism?
                Are you not misleading people who would happen to read what you write..
                Sorry to say, you have jumbled up quite a lot of disinformation, however
                good your intentions might be.
                Of course, the Malaysian Tamils would like it as well as the Hinduthva
                Brahminical Tamils.

                Read up.
                Look around.
                Search and Research.
                There is a lot of facts and materials just lying around to be explored.
                Take your time, if you are really interested.

                But if the adulations and paaraattus of the Malaysian Tamils is the sole
                objective, then anything glorified in a grandiose manner will sell.
                If that is what is wanted.

                Regards

                JayBee


                On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 9:55 PM, Rasainthiran Menayah <rasainthiran@...
                > wrote:

                >
                >
                > Dear Dr.
                >
                > It is a well know history that the Cholan kingdom came to conquest to south
                > east Asia and this was during 8th century AD, and they were Siva
                > worshipers.
                > However, the Chinese Buddhist travelers (Fa hien - 399 - 414); (San Yun -
                > 518); (Hiuen Thsang - 629-645) and (I-tsing - 673 -695) had very well
                > recorded history of India, Jaya and also of Malaya.
                >
                > None of them talk about Kedah, but that is one of the Malay states that has
                > a more or less pure Siva based culture. During my visit in 1985, I was
                > lucky
                > to see some Sivalingams (and took photographs) of the pre Gupta Dynasty
                > Sivalingams there.
                >
                > The iconography of the Sivalingam from the pre to post Gupta era is an
                > interesting feature. But most of the Sivalingam of the Greater Cholan era
                > are of the post Gupta era. Thus the lingams at Kedah must have came to
                > Kedah
                > before the 8th century Greater Cholan Kingdom.
                >
                > Now Ceran and Pandian history does not extend into South East Asia. The
                > Pallavar history does, but they are after Cholan and more inclined to
                > Vishnu
                > and and their Siva manifestation is much different.
                >
                > *Thus there are only two ways the Kedah Sivalingam could have come to the
                > Malay States.
                > *
                > **Northern Indians worshiping Siva before the pre Gupta era *- which is too
                > unlikely for me to accept (or) some *minor Cholan Kingdom following their
                > usual Siva worshiping* coming to the Malay States, before the Major Cholan
                > Dynansty took power.
                >
                > The clue for us here in the icon of the Sivalingam. It is not possible for
                > Ceran, Pandian and the Pallavars to erect pre Gupta Siva icons. Thus the
                > only clue we have is Cholan Dynasty - era of which is not very clear as
                > Malaysia is not keen to go into an in depth study on this Chandi of Kedah.
                >
                > *The Sivagangai is a clue which I am taking from your writing. *That is
                > very
                > new news to me and having heard of you much before, must have been
                > researched by you. I am just trying to connect these messages, that is why
                > I
                > was asking a question from you.
                >
                > *Are they connected in any way?
                > I am sure you must have a reason to give this clue to the readers here.*
                >
                > Thanks,
                >
                > Rajan
                > ,
                > *Note:* If it was Northern India, then Kalinga could be one of the states.
                > I
                > have not done any history study on this state before Asoka, thus would be
                > interesting to do some reading up after your essay.
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Rasainthiran Menayah
                Agreed Dr. But Kedah was a kingdom of Thailand at that era, thus finding Buddhist material is not surprising. I was not aware of the 40,000 votary tablets as I
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 6, 2011
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                  Agreed Dr.

                  But Kedah was a kingdom of Thailand at that era, thus finding Buddhist
                  material is not surprising.

                  I was not aware of the 40,000 votary tablets as I may have missed their
                  publication or catalog. Their dates and form of writing would be of
                  interest.

                  Any hint to access them will be appriciated.

                  Rajan

                  On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 10:52 PM, jay bee <jaybee011008@...> wrote:


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Rasainthiran Menayah
                  Furthermore Dr. *I said there were two options, * One from the Northern India (most probable form Kalinga) and second from the pre era from the 8th Century
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 6, 2011
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                    Furthermore Dr. *I said there were two options, *

                    One from the Northern India (most probable form Kalinga) and second from the
                    pre era from the 8th Century Cholan. Thus I clearly said it cannot be of the
                    Great Cholan era. Nothing to do with Saiva favoritism. *(I admitted I have
                    not read their pre Asoka history yet)*

                    The 40,000 Buddhist tablets you mentioned was also not covered as I did not
                    know of its contents. The writings needs to be studied to decide which came
                    first to Kedah - Buddhist or Siva worship. *(References would be appreciated
                    *)

                    *Khmer writing cannot be taken taken as authority of Kedah history* as their
                    writing is modeled from the 5th century AD onwards and from the South Indian
                    origin. My contention is Bujang is much before this era.

                    *The Malay language is even much later - pointless to depend on it for
                    Bujang Valley *history. *The same for Arabic Javanese which is just around
                    8th to 9th century* - also not suitable for Bujang Valley history.

                    *Chinese history as stated in my earlier note does not talk about Kedah
                    civilization in the books I mentioned.* If there are any references in other
                    books, will be appreciated if sources could be provided.

                    Thanks again,

                    Rajan
                    .







                    On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 11:45 PM, Rasainthiran Menayah <
                    rasainthiran@...> wrote:

                    > Agreed Dr.
                    >
                    > But Kedah was a kingdom of Thailand at that era, thus finding Buddhist
                    > material is not surprising.
                    >
                    > I was not aware of the 40,000 votary tablets as I may have missed their
                    > publication or catalog. Their dates and form of writing would be of
                    > interest.
                    >
                    > Any hint to access them will be appriciated.
                    >
                    > Rajan
                    >
                    > On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 10:52 PM, jay bee <jaybee011008@...> wrote:
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Sharmalan Thevar
                    Dear Mr.Rajan, Something caught my attention here. Now Ceran and Pandian history does not extend into South East Asia. What about the Bataks of Sumatera who
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 6, 2011
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                      Dear Mr.Rajan,

                      Something caught my attention here.

                      "Now Ceran and Pandian history does not extend into South East Asia."

                      What about the Bataks of Sumatera who carry clan names such as Pandia? Isn't this an extention of Pandian history into SEA?

                      Regards,

                      Sharmalan Thevar



                      --- In agathiyar@yahoogroups.com, Rasainthiran Menayah <rasainthiran@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear Dr.
                      >
                      > It is a well know history that the Cholan kingdom came to conquest to south
                      > east Asia and this was during 8th century AD, and they were Siva worshipers.
                      > However, the Chinese Buddhist travelers (Fa hien - 399 - 414); (San Yun -
                      > 518); (Hiuen Thsang - 629-645) and (I-tsing - 673 -695) had very well
                      > recorded history of India, Jaya and also of Malaya.
                      >
                      > None of them talk about Kedah, but that is one of the Malay states that has
                      > a more or less pure Siva based culture. During my visit in 1985, I was lucky
                      > to see some Sivalingams (and took photographs) of the pre Gupta Dynasty
                      > Sivalingams there.
                      >
                      > The iconography of the Sivalingam from the pre to post Gupta era is an
                      > interesting feature. But most of the Sivalingam of the Greater Cholan era
                      > are of the post Gupta era. Thus the lingams at Kedah must have came to Kedah
                      > before the 8th century Greater Cholan Kingdom.
                      >
                      > Now Ceran and Pandian history does not extend into South East Asia. The
                      > Pallavar history does, but they are after Cholan and more inclined to Vishnu
                      > and and their Siva manifestation is much different.
                      >
                      > *Thus there are only two ways the Kedah Sivalingam could have come to the
                      > Malay States.
                      > *
                      > **Northern Indians worshiping Siva before the pre Gupta era *- which is too
                      > unlikely for me to accept (or) some *minor Cholan Kingdom following their
                      > usual Siva worshiping* coming to the Malay States, before the Major Cholan
                      > Dynansty took power.
                      >
                      > The clue for us here in the icon of the Sivalingam. It is not possible for
                      > Ceran, Pandian and the Pallavars to erect pre Gupta Siva icons. Thus the
                      > only clue we have is Cholan Dynasty - era of which is not very clear as
                      > Malaysia is not keen to go into an in depth study on this Chandi of Kedah.
                      >
                      >
                      > *The Sivagangai is a clue which I am taking from your writing. *That is very
                      > new news to me and having heard of you much before, must have been
                      > researched by you. I am just trying to connect these messages, that is why I
                      > was asking a question from you.
                      >
                      > *Are they connected in any way?
                      > I am sure you must have a reason to give this clue to the readers here.*
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      >
                      > Rajan
                      > ,
                      > *Note:* If it was Northern India, then Kalinga could be one of the states. I
                      > have not done any history study on this state before Asoka, thus would be
                      > interesting to do some reading up after your essay.
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Rasainthiran Menayah
                      Yes, a good and very interesting observation. The Old Pandia kingdom was known more for its trade and internal conflicts. They had missionaries reaching as far
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 6, 2011
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                        Yes, a good and very interesting observation.

                        The Old Pandia kingdom was known more for its trade and internal conflicts.
                        They had missionaries reaching as far as from Rome to China and mostly
                        concerned in trade. One of the richest Kingdoms of that era. It is these
                        poople who had more contact with the Northern Kingdoms. Their era ranges
                        from 3rd BC till 5th AD.

                        There is a *high possibility* that it was during this time when the Kalinga
                        (orissa) people with the influence of trade came to the Kedah region and
                        formed it as a trading center. But Indian history is noted for its
                        ambiguity. It could be the Kalinga people alone or as a part of the
                        Northern empire, but we are not too certain. (*as I mentioned, the
                        involvement of Northern India is a possibility, but through Kalinga)*

                        *The Javanese rein of the Pandia is very different from the above.* This is
                        the one most famous for their wars and they were the ones that reached South
                        East Asia and their period was in the 9th Century. * This were also the
                        people that conquered Kalinga*
                        *Now, here is no way Bujang was connected with this Pandia Dynasty.*

                        Now the *linguist period of both the above was very different.* The Old
                        Pandia concentrated much on Tamil literature as Sanskrit was just moving
                        into the South due to their interaction with the Northern Kingdoms.

                        The Later Pandia period saw that Sanskrit was fully established in Tamil
                        land and thus most literary work was Sanskrit oriented. *That is the reason
                        that Javanese is nearly 50% Sanskrit, one of the highest Sanskrit based
                        languages in this region.*

                        I was basing my guess on the type of Sivalingams I saw at Bujang. They were
                        not of either the Later Pandian or the Great Cholan Dynasty. *That is why I
                        ruled out both*.

                        *As I previously mentiond it must have only two options (Northern Kalina
                        based) or any of the smaller Cholan based. *And definitely pre Gupta or
                        around that era.

                        Indian History and Culture (music, arts, dance and customs and festivals)
                        have been much adulterated and at times much misrepresented on purpose by
                        the victor, thus we need to have a more open mind to actually discuss so
                        that "more light is shed on the subjects" we discuss.

                        The biggest problem here is that Asoka edits mention both Old Cholan and
                        also the Old Pandian, but by history the Cholan Dynasty was the most
                        strongest and also reached the largest area, including Siam and
                        Cambodia. **They
                        were also noted for their temple building culture - thus the benefit of the
                        doubt that Bujang is more inclined to Cholan people.*

                        Unless Malaysia is willing to "truely" preserve and not destroy much of the
                        artifacts, retracing its actual origin is a difficulty.

                        Dr. has opened a new dimension for me by stating the 40,000 Buddhist text
                        was found at Bujang. I need to find sources for that as every piece throws
                        "new evidence" and takes us nearer to the actual truth.

                        The type of writing, the language, and medium used, and the subject content
                        are all of interest and importance as they throw much light into the history
                        of the materials.

                        Rajan

                        **Note* - The Pallavas were also noted for their temples but mostly Vishnu
                        based, while Cholan was Siva based.




                        On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 1:20 AM, Sharmalan Thevar <sharmalan1984@...>wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > Dear Mr.Rajan,
                        >
                        > Something caught my attention here.
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Sharmalan Thevar
                        As per your statement, Pandiya history NEVER extended to SEA. I believe this is wrong as SEA is not about Bujang/Kedah alone. There were other kingdoms which
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jan 7, 2011
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                          As per your statement, Pandiya history NEVER extended to SEA. I believe this is wrong as SEA is not about Bujang/Kedah alone.

                          There were other kingdoms which existed and they would have been in contact with both East and West.

                          The Cholas were known for their naval power and it is generally believed to be at its peak during Raja Raja Cholan's and Rajendra Cholan's time.

                          However, this also means that Cholas were the greatest naval power during that particular time, not necessary all the time and not necessarily the ONLY naval power.

                          There could have been other Tamil kingdoms being the naval superpower during various times. Cheras would have been the naval powerhouse during Sangam ages.

                          Anyone with a raft being pushed from Thondi can reach SEA. I won't be suprised if my ancestors were one of them as my ancestral village is just 10km away from Thondi and they were well aware of the sea route.

                          Looking at such condition, others would have arrived here in SEA even before the Cholas and left their mark.

                          Hence, the Bataks of Sumatera which is part of SEA would have known the non-Chola Tamils. They would have even intermarried. This could explain their Tamil clan names.

                          Similarly, there are some Tamils from Thanjavur who look more Malay than Tamils. The Malays who were expert navigators would have also reached the shores of Tamilakam and intermarried with them.

                          Regards,

                          Sharmalan Thevar

                          --- In agathiyar@yahoogroups.com, Rasainthiran Menayah <rasainthiran@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Yes, a good and very interesting observation.
                          >
                          > The Old Pandia kingdom was known more for its trade and internal conflicts.
                          > They had missionaries reaching as far as from Rome to China and mostly
                          > concerned in trade. One of the richest Kingdoms of that era. It is these
                          > poople who had more contact with the Northern Kingdoms. Their era ranges
                          > from 3rd BC till 5th AD.
                          >
                          > There is a *high possibility* that it was during this time when the Kalinga
                          > (orissa) people with the influence of trade came to the Kedah region and
                          > formed it as a trading center. But Indian history is noted for its
                          > ambiguity. It could be the Kalinga people alone or as a part of the
                          > Northern empire, but we are not too certain. (*as I mentioned, the
                          > involvement of Northern India is a possibility, but through Kalinga)*
                          >
                          > *The Javanese rein of the Pandia is very different from the above.* This is
                          > the one most famous for their wars and they were the ones that reached South
                          > East Asia and their period was in the 9th Century. * This were also the
                          > people that conquered Kalinga*
                          > *Now, here is no way Bujang was connected with this Pandia Dynasty.*
                          >
                          > Now the *linguist period of both the above was very different.* The Old
                          > Pandia concentrated much on Tamil literature as Sanskrit was just moving
                          > into the South due to their interaction with the Northern Kingdoms.
                          >
                          > The Later Pandia period saw that Sanskrit was fully established in Tamil
                          > land and thus most literary work was Sanskrit oriented. *That is the reason
                          > that Javanese is nearly 50% Sanskrit, one of the highest Sanskrit based
                          > languages in this region.*
                          >
                          > I was basing my guess on the type of Sivalingams I saw at Bujang. They were
                          > not of either the Later Pandian or the Great Cholan Dynasty. *That is why I
                          > ruled out both*.
                          >
                          > *As I previously mentiond it must have only two options (Northern Kalina
                          > based) or any of the smaller Cholan based. *And definitely pre Gupta or
                          > around that era.
                          >
                          > Indian History and Culture (music, arts, dance and customs and festivals)
                          > have been much adulterated and at times much misrepresented on purpose by
                          > the victor, thus we need to have a more open mind to actually discuss so
                          > that "more light is shed on the subjects" we discuss.
                          >
                          > The biggest problem here is that Asoka edits mention both Old Cholan and
                          > also the Old Pandian, but by history the Cholan Dynasty was the most
                          > strongest and also reached the largest area, including Siam and
                          > Cambodia. **They
                          > were also noted for their temple building culture - thus the benefit of the
                          > doubt that Bujang is more inclined to Cholan people.*
                          >
                          > Unless Malaysia is willing to "truely" preserve and not destroy much of the
                          > artifacts, retracing its actual origin is a difficulty.
                          >
                          > Dr. has opened a new dimension for me by stating the 40,000 Buddhist text
                          > was found at Bujang. I need to find sources for that as every piece throws
                          > "new evidence" and takes us nearer to the actual truth.
                          >
                          > The type of writing, the language, and medium used, and the subject content
                          > are all of interest and importance as they throw much light into the history
                          > of the materials.
                          >
                          > Rajan
                          >
                          > **Note* - The Pallavas were also noted for their temples but mostly Vishnu
                          > based, while Cholan was Siva based.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 1:20 AM, Sharmalan Thevar <sharmalan1984@...>wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Dear Mr.Rajan,
                          > >
                          > > Something caught my attention here.
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Rasainthiran Menayah
                          Agreed to your broad history on SEA - but mine was only speculating *specifically on the* *Bujang Vally and its era only.* Rajan On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 12:10
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jan 7, 2011
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                            Agreed to your broad history on SEA - but mine was only speculating
                            *specifically
                            on the* *Bujang Vally and its era only.*

                            Rajan

                            On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Sharmalan Thevar
                            <sharmalan1984@...>wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            > As per your statement, Pandiya history NEVER extended to SEA. I believe
                            > this is wrong as SEA is not about Bujang/Kedah alone.
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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