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Re: [afrophonewikis] Re: MediaWiki in african countries

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  • renaud gaudin
    ... No, but I don t think we need such a place. The action that chapter will do would be prepared over Internet and (if necessary) deployed in each
    Message 1 of 26 , Jun 24, 2008
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      On 6/24/08, Oliver Stegen <oliver@...> wrote:
      > Do you have a similarly central location in West Africa which
      > everybody uses as a travel hub?

      No, but I don't think we need such a place. The action that chapter
      will do would be prepared over Internet and (if necessary) deployed in
      each countries/places.

      The core idea is that we have to deal with the same problems so we
      should get together and solve them once for all instead of creating
      numerous chapters and waste time targetting the same issues.

      You got the idea (thank you !) but I don't think that we need a
      physical place for that.
    • Waldir Pimenta
      I totally agree with renaud, and I also want to say that having an Africa-wide (or WE, for instance) chapter wouldn t exclude the option from some countries to
      Message 2 of 26 , Jun 24, 2008
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        I totally agree with renaud, and I also want to say that having an
        Africa-wide (or WE, for instance) chapter wouldn't exclude the option
        from some countries to get individual chapters, if they find the means
        to do it.

        Oh, and a PS - Portuguese is the official language in Cape Verde, but
        nobody speaks it colloquially. It is taught in school and used in
        official occasions, but the Cape Verdean creole is spoken most of the
        time. This also happens in Guinea-Bissau, I believe, also a
        "Portuguese-speaking" African country. Perhaps in São Tomé e Principe
        too but I'm not 100% sure. And Angola and Mozambique (the remaining
        afro-pt countries) all have native languages, but they're too many so
        there Portuguese is actually used on a daily basis for communication,
        but including these people would be good for spreading local knowledge
        in, say, Portuguese wikipedia (which is something we (should!) want),
        and eventually contributing with their native language to e.g.
        wiktionaries while there isn't a wikipedia edition.
      • Gerard Meijssen
        Hoi, We can do without this list, we can do without grand ideas when people are work ingon projects in these languages.. We need people that write
        Message 3 of 26 , Jun 24, 2008
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          Hoi,
          We can do without this list, we can do without grand ideas when  people are work ingon projects in these languages.. We need people that write encyclopaedic articles in order to make Wikipedias happen. We need localisation so that people can have a complete experience in their language..

          What we need is people writing content, we need to be able to collect these articles in a central repository and we need to be able to get these articles out to readers for the information it contains...

          We only need writers and readers... The reason why it makes sense to collaborate is that it not only saves the language but also the associated culture, its products and its value that is has for the people that make up this culture.. This is what it we should aim for..
          Thanks,
               Gerard

          On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 1:31 PM, renaud gaudin <rgaudin@...> wrote:

          On 6/24/08, Oliver Stegen <oliver@...> wrote:
          > Do you have a similarly central location in West Africa which
          > everybody uses as a travel hub?

          No, but I don't think we need such a place. The action that chapter
          will do would be prepared over Internet and (if necessary) deployed in
          each countries/places.

          The core idea is that we have to deal with the same problems so we
          should get together and solve them once for all instead of creating
          numerous chapters and waste time targetting the same issues.

          You got the idea (thank you !) but I don't think that we need a
          physical place for that.

        • renaud gaudin
          ... ahah :) yes we ___only___ need writers and readers. That s the point and Ibou said it clearly : there are none. While in EU or in the US you just have to
          Message 4 of 26 , Jun 24, 2008
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            On 6/24/08, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@...> wrote:
            > We only need writers and readers...

            ahah :) yes we ___only___ need writers and readers. That's the point
            and Ibou said it clearly : there are none. While in EU or in the US
            you just have to give the URL to get writers, in WA, it's way
            different and it requires _a lot of
            (communication/training/propaganda) work_ to get it started.

            renaud
          • Don Osborn
            Hi Gerard, ... Did you really mean to say that? We have good discussion begun by a proposal brought up by a regular contributor to an African language edition
            Message 5 of 26 , Jun 24, 2008
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              Hi Gerard,

              You wrote:
              > We can do without this list, ...

              Did you really mean to say that? We have good discussion begun by a
              proposal brought up by a regular contributor to an African language
              edition and that's your opening response?

              There is no other forum that I'm aware of to share information and
              ideas to assist the ultimate common aim we agree on, and you say we
              can do without it?

              From what I see in general, such forums to bring together diverse
              people working on similar efforts for African languages (not just
              Wikimedia, but all sorts of localization) are needed.

              > ... we can do without grand ideas when people are
              > work ingon projects in these languages.. ...

              I think this is a false dichotomy. There have been here and elsewhere
              discussions of how to facilitate the development of African language
              Wikipedias, and some of those will necessarily involve "grand ideas."
              We all agree that ultimately people working on the projects is the
              goal. The current discussion deals with an aspect I personally hadn't
              thought of - Wikimedia chapters. How is that any more "grand" or any
              less practical than, say, Wikipedia Academies?

              > ... We need people that write
              > encyclopaedic articles in order to make Wikipedias happen. We need
              > localisation so that people can have a complete experience in their
              > language..

              Of course. The current discussion is as I read it, related to how
              larger efforts can help the process, with Wikimedia chapters being a
              specific idea.

              > What we need is people writing content, we need to be able to
              collect these
              > articles in a central repository and we need to be able to get these
              > articles out to readers for the information it contains...

              Again, we'd all agree. But ways to get there is the motivation for the
              discussion and one of the purposes of this list.

              > We only need writers and readers...

              We also need people to find them, which is one of the issues behind
              discussions like the current one to close xh.wikipedia.org at
              http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Xhosa_Wikipedia
              . Writers and readers for African languages don't just happen in the
              same degree as for more resourced languages in countries with more
              access - there is a need to address this issue proactively or we'll
              just be discussing closing more African language Wikipedias.

              > ... The reason why it makes sense to
              > collaborate is that it not only saves the language but also the
              associated
              > culture, its products and its value that is has for the people that
              make up
              > this culture.. This is what it we should aim for..
              > Thanks,
              > Gerard

              You certainly have read what has been written by various people in
              this thread and earlier. There are a lot of people - potential
              contributors presumably among them - who haven't heard of Wikipedia or
              who have little or no concept of what it is or how to use it. How to
              do better outreach to involve them?

              Collaboration on this list serves such "meta" issues as relate to the
              specific challenges faced by African language communities and Wikimedia.

              I respect and admire the work you've been doing, Gerard, but I think
              you're off base in your negative comments. We're really working to the
              same ends and this list and this discussion are supportive of those on
              a level that needs more attention, IMHO.

              So a question for the group: How could Africa-based Wikimedia chapters
              help develop Wikipedia communities in various countries?

              Don


              > On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 1:31 PM, renaud gaudin <rgaudin@...> wrote:
              >
              > > On 6/24/08, Oliver Stegen <oliver@... <oliver%40ling.ed.ac.uk>>
              > > wrote:
              > > > Do you have a similarly central location in West Africa which
              > > > everybody uses as a travel hub?
              > >
              > > No, but I don't think we need such a place. The action that chapter
              > > will do would be prepared over Internet and (if necessary) deployed in
              > > each countries/places.
              > >
              > > The core idea is that we have to deal with the same problems so we
              > > should get together and solve them once for all instead of creating
              > > numerous chapters and waste time targetting the same issues.
              > >
              > > You got the idea (thank you !) but I don't think that we need a
              > > physical place for that.
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Gerard Meijssen
              Hoi, The problem with chapters and other grand schemes is that they are expensive. They do not bring us necessarily any closer to what they, we aim to achieve.
              Message 6 of 26 , Jun 24, 2008
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                Hoi,
                The problem with chapters and other grand schemes is that they are expensive. They do not bring us necessarily any closer to what they, we aim to achieve. This list is in-expensive, at worst it costs us time. People like Ibou are important because they DO make a difference, they write, localise and they are our true heroes.

                When we discuss Wikimedia chapters, then you have to analyse what it is they do. Not their talk but their deeds. Given the current chapters, they support countries with an existing strong community of editors. In some countries like the USA that is not even enough to get chapters organised. Because of this I am not positive about what it is chapters would bring. There is no community, so who would they represent ? There is no community, so who is it will organise this and at what cost ?

                This list is useful, it is even needed. It is good that we discuss any suggestion, it is even important that we do. Now, this list is about stimulating Wikipedias / Free Content. I believe in schemes when I see more free content created as a result. I am told that you can hire a student to write encyclopaedic content for what in the "developed" world would be considered a pittance. We could do just that.. It is likely to cost much less then initiating organisations that are not likely to make the same difference..

                In the end, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Our proof is in articles, people reading / using a Wikipedia in their language..

                Thanks,
                     Gerard

                On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 3:17 PM, Don Osborn <dzo@...> wrote:

                Hi Gerard,

                You wrote:
                > We can do without this list, ...

                Did you really mean to say that? We have good discussion begun by a
                proposal brought up by a regular contributor to an African language
                edition and that's your opening response?

                There is no other forum that I'm aware of to share information and
                ideas to assist the ultimate common aim we agree on, and you say we
                can do without it?

                From what I see in general, such forums to bring together diverse
                people working on similar efforts for African languages (not just
                Wikimedia, but all sorts of localization) are needed.

                > ... we can do without grand ideas when people are
                > work ingon projects in these languages.. ...

                I think this is a false dichotomy. There have been here and elsewhere
                discussions of how to facilitate the development of African language
                Wikipedias, and some of those will necessarily involve "grand ideas."
                We all agree that ultimately people working on the projects is the
                goal. The current discussion deals with an aspect I personally hadn't
                thought of - Wikimedia chapters. How is that any more "grand" or any
                less practical than, say, Wikipedia Academies?



                > ... We need people that write
                > encyclopaedic articles in order to make Wikipedias happen. We need
                > localisation so that people can have a complete experience in their
                > language..

                Of course. The current discussion is as I read it, related to how
                larger efforts can help the process, with Wikimedia chapters being a
                specific idea.


                > What we need is people writing content, we need to be able to
                collect these
                > articles in a central repository and we need to be able to get these
                > articles out to readers for the information it contains...

                Again, we'd all agree. But ways to get there is the motivation for the
                discussion and one of the purposes of this list.


                > We only need writers and readers...

                We also need people to find them, which is one of the issues behind
                discussions like the current one to close xh.wikipedia.org at
                http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Xhosa_Wikipedia
                . Writers and readers for African languages don't just happen in the
                same degree as for more resourced languages in countries with more
                access - there is a need to address this issue proactively or we'll
                just be discussing closing more African language Wikipedias.


                > ... The reason why it makes sense to
                > collaborate is that it not only saves the language but also the
                associated
                > culture, its products and its value that is has for the people that
                make up
                > this culture.. This is what it we should aim for..
                > Thanks,
                > Gerard

                You certainly have read what has been written by various people in
                this thread and earlier. There are a lot of people - potential
                contributors presumably among them - who haven't heard of Wikipedia or
                who have little or no concept of what it is or how to use it. How to
                do better outreach to involve them?

                Collaboration on this list serves such "meta" issues as relate to the
                specific challenges faced by African language communities and Wikimedia.

                I respect and admire the work you've been doing, Gerard, but I think
                you're off base in your negative comments. We're really working to the
                same ends and this list and this discussion are supportive of those on
                a level that needs more attention, IMHO.

                So a question for the group: How could Africa-based Wikimedia chapters
                help develop Wikipedia communities in various countries?

                Don

                > On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 1:31 PM, renaud gaudin <rgaudin@...> wrote:
                >
                > > On 6/24/08, Oliver Stegen <oliver@... <oliver%40ling.ed.ac.uk>>

                > > wrote:
                > > > Do you have a similarly central location in West Africa which
                > > > everybody uses as a travel hub?
                > >
                > > No, but I don't think we need such a place. The action that chapter
                > > will do would be prepared over Internet and (if necessary) deployed in
                > > each countries/places.
                > >
                > > The core idea is that we have to deal with the same problems so we
                > > should get together and solve them once for all instead of creating
                > > numerous chapters and waste time targetting the same issues.
                > >
                > > You got the idea (thank you !) but I don't think that we need a
                > > physical place for that.
                > >
                > >
                >


              • Kasper Souren
                ... More than 3 years after I left Mali where I have tried to stimulate people to write for Wikipedia during 4 months. For a long time there was no more
                Message 7 of 26 , Jun 24, 2008
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                  On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 3:17 PM, Don Osborn <dzo@...> wrote:
                  > We also need people to find them, which is one of the issues behind
                  > discussions like the current one to close xh.wikipedia.org at
                  > http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Xhosa_Wikipedia
                  > . Writers and readers for African languages don't just happen in the
                  > same degree as for more resourced languages in countries with more
                  > access - there is a need to address this issue proactively or we'll
                  > just be discussing closing more African language Wikipedias.

                  More than 3 years after I left Mali where I have tried to stimulate
                  people to write for Wikipedia during 4 months. For a long time there
                  was no more activity than a couple of bots. Recently Misbaho started
                  to write in Bambara and today the Bambara Wikipedia reached 200
                  articles. I doubt that this would have happened if the project had
                  been incubated. The same goes for the Wolof Wikipedia, where Ibou has
                  done an incredible job.

                  > So a question for the group: How could Africa-based Wikimedia chapters
                  > help develop Wikipedia communities in various countries?

                  I think Gerard is right, we need people write in these languages. For
                  this, setting up an African chapter of Wikimedia could do wonders in
                  terms of contact. Status can be important in Africa, and an official
                  organization promoting Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects in
                  African languages could go a long way. People at universities and
                  government institutes (that are dealing with institutions like Unesco,
                  USAID and the World Bank) will be much more likely to respond to a
                  representative of an official institute. For that matter, the
                  Wikimedia chapter doesn't even need employees or an office anywhere,
                  it could even share a postal address with the WMF.

                  a k'an be,
                  Kasper
                • Martin Benjamin
                  Ibou s original question about a Wolof/ Senegal Wikimedia chapter raises some interesting possibilities. This is the page that explains what a Wikimedia
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jun 24, 2008
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                    Ibou's original question about a Wolof/ Senegal Wikimedia chapter raises
                    some interesting possibilities.

                    This is the page that explains what a Wikimedia chapter is:
                    http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Local_chapters

                    One important point about chapters is that they are each independent
                    entities that can support the larger goals of the Wikimedia Foundation
                    in different ways.

                    Let's imagine the following scenario for a Wikimedia chapter that wanted
                    to promote Wolof in the Wiki world:

                    1) The chapter could be physically based in Dakar, but also welcome
                    online participation (for example, Ibou might want to participate from
                    Italy)

                    2) The chapter could host monthly meetings at a Dakar internet cafe, or
                    at a university or NGO that has an available room with a lot of
                    computers and good internet access. Senegalese expatriates could
                    participate online, in an IRC channel.

                    3) Each monthly meeting could have its own theme. Examples:
                    * how to use MediaWiki (with the meeting output being an online help
                    guide for MediaWiki, in Wolof)
                    * how to write a good encyclopedia article (with the meeting output
                    being an online help guide to writing a Wikipedia article, including an
                    article about No Point Of View, in Wolof)
                    * how to use Wikipedia (meeting output being a guide for teachers and
                    students about different ways to find information on Wikipedia, the
                    importance of double-checking facts, and tips for fixing errors, in Wolof)
                    * politics in Senegal (meeting output being Wikipedia articles about
                    each political party in Senegal, in Wolof)
                    * history of Senegal (meeting output being Wikipedia articles about
                    major historical figures of Senegal, in Wolof)
                    * media in Senegal (meeting output being Wikipedia articles about the
                    various TV, radio, and newspaper outlets in Senegal, in Wolof)
                    * education in Senegal (output = articles about universities and other
                    post-secondary educational institutions)
                    * agriculture in Senegal (output = articles about major crops, rainfall
                    patterns, planting techniques)
                    * trade in Senegal (output = articles about major industries,
                    businesses, etc)
                    * Senegal stubs (output = basic stubs for articles about various
                    categories: Senegalese villages, Senegalese sports teams, Senegalese
                    members of parliament, Wolof astrological constellations, West African
                    trees, etc)
                    * anything else related to Senegal...

                    4) The group would probably start small at first, but each member would
                    make a serious effort to invite people they think would be interested
                    and could learn the minimum necessary computer skills

                    5) Each month the group could invite a member of the media to attend, so
                    that newspaper articles, radio, and TV exposure would increase awareness
                    and membership

                    6) Each month the group could invite someone as an official guest, for
                    example, Ministère de la Culture, du Patrimoine historique classé, des
                    Langues nationales et de la Francophonie, or other government ministries
                    listed here: http://www.gouv.sn/institutions/gouvernement.html

                    7) Each month the group could invite a teacher or headmaster from a
                    secondary school in the Dakar area, with the goal that the school would
                    teach students about using and contributing to Wikipedia. Group members
                    could also visit the different schools to participate in student workshops.

                    If the group had 20 members who wrote just one article each at the
                    monthly meeting, the immediate result would be almost 300 good articles
                    in a year. More importantly, though, would be the longer term results:
                    * each member would probably write more articles during the course of
                    the month
                    * the events would raise wider awareness of contributing to Wolof Wikipedia
                    * wider awareness would lead to more people using Wolof Wikipedia, which
                    would lead to more people starting to contribute, more group members, etc

                    I am, of course, only using Wolof as an example. This concept could be
                    used in any place where a computer facility can be located, and where
                    even a core of 3 or 4 people can start the first monthly meeting.

                    The events would not be free - each person would probably need to pay
                    for their own time at the internet cafe. Hopefully, that is a cost that
                    most group members would find reasonable. If the cost of renting a
                    place would be too high, though, perhaps the larger Wikimedia Foundation
                    could help by funding some startup events (probably no more than $50 or
                    $100 to rent an internet cafe for a couple of hours...)

                    Those are my initial musings - thanks to Ibou for beginning the discussion!

                    Best from Pretoria,
                    Martin
                  • Jama Musse Jama
                    I think Martin summarized well all what African languages can benefit from this thread started by Ibou (thank you). I live in Italy, and am following for the
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jun 24, 2008
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                      I think Martin summarized well all what African languages can benefit from this thread started by Ibou (thank you).

                      I live in Italy, and am following for the last three yeards the wikimedia chapter, and I can assure you that even in Italy where the wikipedia community is well established, the work done by this chapter is extremely essential for the it.wikipedia.org.

                      kind regards, Jama



                      On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Martin Benjamin <martin.benjamin@...> wrote:

                      Ibou's original question about a Wolof/ Senegal Wikimedia chapter raises
                      some interesting possibilities.

                      This is the page that explains what a Wikimedia chapter is:
                      http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Local_chapters

                      One important point about chapters is that they are each independent
                      entities that can support the larger goals of the Wikimedia Foundation
                      in different ways.

                      Let's imagine the following scenario for a Wikimedia chapter that wanted
                      to promote Wolof in the Wiki world:

                      1) The chapter could be physically based in Dakar, but also welcome
                      online participation (for example, Ibou might want to participate from
                      Italy)

                      2) The chapter could host monthly meetings at a Dakar internet cafe, or
                      at a university or NGO that has an available room with a lot of
                      computers and good internet access. Senegalese expatriates could
                      participate online, in an IRC channel.

                      3) Each monthly meeting could have its own theme. Examples:
                      * how to use MediaWiki (with the meeting output being an online help
                      guide for MediaWiki, in Wolof)
                      * how to write a good encyclopedia article (with the meeting output
                      being an online help guide to writing a Wikipedia article, including an
                      article about No Point Of View, in Wolof)
                      * how to use Wikipedia (meeting output being a guide for teachers and
                      students about different ways to find information on Wikipedia, the
                      importance of double-checking facts, and tips for fixing errors, in Wolof)
                      * politics in Senegal (meeting output being Wikipedia articles about
                      each political party in Senegal, in Wolof)
                      * history of Senegal (meeting output being Wikipedia articles about
                      major historical figures of Senegal, in Wolof)
                      * media in Senegal (meeting output being Wikipedia articles about the
                      various TV, radio, and newspaper outlets in Senegal, in Wolof)
                      * education in Senegal (output = articles about universities and other
                      post-secondary educational institutions)
                      * agriculture in Senegal (output = articles about major crops, rainfall
                      patterns, planting techniques)
                      * trade in Senegal (output = articles about major industries,
                      businesses, etc)
                      * Senegal stubs (output = basic stubs for articles about various
                      categories: Senegalese villages, Senegalese sports teams, Senegalese
                      members of parliament, Wolof astrological constellations, West African
                      trees, etc)
                      * anything else related to Senegal...

                      4) The group would probably start small at first, but each member would
                      make a serious effort to invite people they think would be interested
                      and could learn the minimum necessary computer skills

                      5) Each month the group could invite a member of the media to attend, so
                      that newspaper articles, radio, and TV exposure would increase awareness
                      and membership

                      6) Each month the group could invite someone as an official guest, for
                      example, Ministère de la Culture, du Patrimoine historique classé, des
                      Langues nationales et de la Francophonie, or other government ministries
                      listed here: http://www.gouv.sn/institutions/gouvernement.html

                      7) Each month the group could invite a teacher or headmaster from a
                      secondary school in the Dakar area, with the goal that the school would
                      teach students about using and contributing to Wikipedia. Group members
                      could also visit the different schools to participate in student workshops.

                      If the group had 20 members who wrote just one article each at the
                      monthly meeting, the immediate result would be almost 300 good articles
                      in a year. More importantly, though, would be the longer term results:
                      * each member would probably write more articles during the course of
                      the month
                      * the events would raise wider awareness of contributing to Wolof Wikipedia
                      * wider awareness would lead to more people using Wolof Wikipedia, which
                      would lead to more people starting to contribute, more group members, etc

                      I am, of course, only using Wolof as an example. This concept could be
                      used in any place where a computer facility can be located, and where
                      even a core of 3 or 4 people can start the first monthly meeting.

                      The events would not be free - each person would probably need to pay
                      for their own time at the internet cafe. Hopefully, that is a cost that
                      most group members would find reasonable. If the cost of renting a
                      place would be too high, though, perhaps the larger Wikimedia Foundation
                      could help by funding some startup events (probably no more than $50 or
                      $100 to rent an internet cafe for a couple of hours...)

                      Those are my initial musings - thanks to Ibou for beginning the discussion!

                      Best from Pretoria,
                      Martin




                      --
                      _________________________
                      http://www.redsea-online.com
                    • ibouwiki
                      Hi Martin your comment is very elequent, you understand realy what is african projects need, i believe that your idea is the only solution. they need more
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jun 24, 2008
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                        Hi Martin
                        your comment is very elequent, you understand realy what is african
                        projects need, i believe that your idea is the only solution.

                        they need more advertising, a local wikimedia which member go to talk
                        with people, students, journalist (who write articles in their
                        news-paper about wikipedia), other association, explain what is
                        wikimedia,... like Jama said, we live together in italy, by that means
                        we know what wikimedia italy do for theirs projects.

                        ciao, ibou
                        --- In afrophonewikis@yahoogroups.com, "Jama Musse Jama" <jmgurey@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > I think Martin summarized well all what African languages can
                        benefit from
                        > this thread started by Ibou (thank you).
                        >
                        > I live in Italy, and am following for the last three yeards the
                        wikimedia
                        > chapter, and I can assure you that even in Italy where the wikipedia
                        > community is well established, the work done by this chapter is
                        extremely
                        > essential for the it.wikipedia.org.
                        >
                        > kind regards, Jama
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Martin Benjamin <
                        > martin.benjamin@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > Ibou's original question about a Wolof/ Senegal Wikimedia
                        chapter raises
                        > >
                        > > some interesting possibilities.
                        > >
                        > > This is the page that explains what a Wikimedia chapter is:
                        > > http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Local_chapters
                        > >
                        > > One important point about chapters is that they are each independent
                        > > entities that can support the larger goals of the Wikimedia Foundation
                        > > in different ways.
                        > >
                        > > Let's imagine the following scenario for a Wikimedia chapter that
                        wanted
                        > > to promote Wolof in the Wiki world:
                        > >
                        > > 1) The chapter could be physically based in Dakar, but also welcome
                        > > online participation (for example, Ibou might want to participate from
                        > > Italy)
                        > >
                        > > 2) The chapter could host monthly meetings at a Dakar internet
                        cafe, or
                        > > at a university or NGO that has an available room with a lot of
                        > > computers and good internet access. Senegalese expatriates could
                        > > participate online, in an IRC channel.
                        > >
                        > > 3) Each monthly meeting could have its own theme. Examples:
                        > > * how to use MediaWiki (with the meeting output being an online help
                        > > guide for MediaWiki, in Wolof)
                        > > * how to write a good encyclopedia article (with the meeting output
                        > > being an online help guide to writing a Wikipedia article,
                        including an
                        > > article about No Point Of View, in Wolof)
                        > > * how to use Wikipedia (meeting output being a guide for teachers and
                        > > students about different ways to find information on Wikipedia, the
                        > > importance of double-checking facts, and tips for fixing errors,
                        in Wolof)
                        > > * politics in Senegal (meeting output being Wikipedia articles about
                        > > each political party in Senegal, in Wolof)
                        > > * history of Senegal (meeting output being Wikipedia articles about
                        > > major historical figures of Senegal, in Wolof)
                        > > * media in Senegal (meeting output being Wikipedia articles about the
                        > > various TV, radio, and newspaper outlets in Senegal, in Wolof)
                        > > * education in Senegal (output = articles about universities and other
                        > > post-secondary educational institutions)
                        > > * agriculture in Senegal (output = articles about major crops,
                        rainfall
                        > > patterns, planting techniques)
                        > > * trade in Senegal (output = articles about major industries,
                        > > businesses, etc)
                        > > * Senegal stubs (output = basic stubs for articles about various
                        > > categories: Senegalese villages, Senegalese sports teams, Senegalese
                        > > members of parliament, Wolof astrological constellations, West African
                        > > trees, etc)
                        > > * anything else related to Senegal...
                        > >
                        > > 4) The group would probably start small at first, but each member
                        would
                        > > make a serious effort to invite people they think would be interested
                        > > and could learn the minimum necessary computer skills
                        > >
                        > > 5) Each month the group could invite a member of the media to
                        attend, so
                        > > that newspaper articles, radio, and TV exposure would increase
                        awareness
                        > > and membership
                        > >
                        > > 6) Each month the group could invite someone as an official guest, for
                        > > example, Ministère de la Culture, du Patrimoine historique classé, des
                        > > Langues nationales et de la Francophonie, or other government
                        ministries
                        > > listed here: http://www.gouv.sn/institutions/gouvernement.html
                        > >
                        > > 7) Each month the group could invite a teacher or headmaster from a
                        > > secondary school in the Dakar area, with the goal that the school
                        would
                        > > teach students about using and contributing to Wikipedia. Group
                        members
                        > > could also visit the different schools to participate in student
                        workshops.
                        > >
                        > > If the group had 20 members who wrote just one article each at the
                        > > monthly meeting, the immediate result would be almost 300 good
                        articles
                        > > in a year. More importantly, though, would be the longer term results:
                        > > * each member would probably write more articles during the course of
                        > > the month
                        > > * the events would raise wider awareness of contributing to Wolof
                        Wikipedia
                        > > * wider awareness would lead to more people using Wolof Wikipedia,
                        which
                        > > would lead to more people starting to contribute, more group
                        members, etc
                        > >
                        > > I am, of course, only using Wolof as an example. This concept could be
                        > > used in any place where a computer facility can be located, and where
                        > > even a core of 3 or 4 people can start the first monthly meeting.
                        > >
                        > > The events would not be free - each person would probably need to pay
                        > > for their own time at the internet cafe. Hopefully, that is a cost
                        that
                        > > most group members would find reasonable. If the cost of renting a
                        > > place would be too high, though, perhaps the larger Wikimedia
                        Foundation
                        > > could help by funding some startup events (probably no more than
                        $50 or
                        > > $100 to rent an internet cafe for a couple of hours...)
                        > >
                        > > Those are my initial musings - thanks to Ibou for beginning the
                        discussion!
                        > >
                        > > Best from Pretoria,
                        > > Martin
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > _________________________
                        > http://www.redsea-online.com
                        >
                      • ibouwiki
                        Hi Martin your comment is very elequent, you understand realy what is african projects need, i believe that your idea is the only solution. they need more
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jun 24, 2008
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                          Hi Martin
                          your comment is very elequent, you understand realy what is african
                          projects need, i believe that your idea is the only solution.

                          they need more advertising, a local wikimedia which member go to talk
                          with people, students, journalist (who write articles in their
                          news-paper about wikipedia), other association, explain what is
                          wikimedia,... like Jama said, we live together in italy, by that means
                          we know what wikimedia italy do for theirs projects.

                          ciao, ibou



                          --- In afrophonewikis@yahoogroups.com, "Jama Musse Jama" <jmgurey@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > I think Martin summarized well all what African languages can
                          benefit from
                          > this thread started by Ibou (thank you).
                          >
                          > I live in Italy, and am following for the last three yeards the
                          wikimedia
                          > chapter, and I can assure you that even in Italy where the wikipedia
                          > community is well established, the work done by this chapter is
                          extremely
                          > essential for the it.wikipedia.org.
                          >
                          > kind regards, Jama
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Martin Benjamin <
                          > martin.benjamin@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > Ibou's original question about a Wolof/ Senegal Wikimedia
                          chapter raises
                          > >
                          > > some interesting possibilities.
                          > >
                          > > This is the page that explains what a Wikimedia chapter is:
                          > > http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Local_chapters
                          > >
                          > > One important point about chapters is that they are each independent
                          > > entities that can support the larger goals of the Wikimedia Foundation
                          > > in different ways.
                          > >
                          > > Let's imagine the following scenario for a Wikimedia chapter that
                          wanted
                          > > to promote Wolof in the Wiki world:
                          > >
                          > > 1) The chapter could be physically based in Dakar, but also welcome
                          > > online participation (for example, Ibou might want to participate from
                          > > Italy)
                          > >
                          > > 2) The chapter could host monthly meetings at a Dakar internet
                          cafe, or
                          > > at a university or NGO that has an available room with a lot of
                          > > computers and good internet access. Senegalese expatriates could
                          > > participate online, in an IRC channel.
                          > >
                          > > 3) Each monthly meeting could have its own theme. Examples:
                          > > * how to use MediaWiki (with the meeting output being an online help
                          > > guide for MediaWiki, in Wolof)
                          > > * how to write a good encyclopedia article (with the meeting output
                          > > being an online help guide to writing a Wikipedia article,
                          including an
                          > > article about No Point Of View, in Wolof)
                          > > * how to use Wikipedia (meeting output being a guide for teachers and
                          > > students about different ways to find information on Wikipedia, the
                          > > importance of double-checking facts, and tips for fixing errors,
                          in Wolof)
                          > > * politics in Senegal (meeting output being Wikipedia articles about
                          > > each political party in Senegal, in Wolof)
                          > > * history of Senegal (meeting output being Wikipedia articles about
                          > > major historical figures of Senegal, in Wolof)
                          > > * media in Senegal (meeting output being Wikipedia articles about the
                          > > various TV, radio, and newspaper outlets in Senegal, in Wolof)
                          > > * education in Senegal (output = articles about universities and other
                          > > post-secondary educational institutions)
                          > > * agriculture in Senegal (output = articles about major crops,
                          rainfall
                          > > patterns, planting techniques)
                          > > * trade in Senegal (output = articles about major industries,
                          > > businesses, etc)
                          > > * Senegal stubs (output = basic stubs for articles about various
                          > > categories: Senegalese villages, Senegalese sports teams, Senegalese
                          > > members of parliament, Wolof astrological constellations, West African
                          > > trees, etc)
                          > > * anything else related to Senegal...
                          > >
                          > > 4) The group would probably start small at first, but each member
                          would
                          > > make a serious effort to invite people they think would be interested
                          > > and could learn the minimum necessary computer skills
                          > >
                          > > 5) Each month the group could invite a member of the media to
                          attend, so
                          > > that newspaper articles, radio, and TV exposure would increase
                          awareness
                          > > and membership
                          > >
                          > > 6) Each month the group could invite someone as an official guest, for
                          > > example, Ministère de la Culture, du Patrimoine historique classé, des
                          > > Langues nationales et de la Francophonie, or other government
                          ministries
                          > > listed here: http://www.gouv.sn/institutions/gouvernement.html
                          > >
                          > > 7) Each month the group could invite a teacher or headmaster from a
                          > > secondary school in the Dakar area, with the goal that the school
                          would
                          > > teach students about using and contributing to Wikipedia. Group
                          members
                          > > could also visit the different schools to participate in student
                          workshops.
                          > >
                          > > If the group had 20 members who wrote just one article each at the
                          > > monthly meeting, the immediate result would be almost 300 good
                          articles
                          > > in a year. More importantly, though, would be the longer term results:
                          > > * each member would probably write more articles during the course of
                          > > the month
                          > > * the events would raise wider awareness of contributing to Wolof
                          Wikipedia
                          > > * wider awareness would lead to more people using Wolof Wikipedia,
                          which
                          > > would lead to more people starting to contribute, more group
                          members, etc
                          > >
                          > > I am, of course, only using Wolof as an example. This concept could be
                          > > used in any place where a computer facility can be located, and where
                          > > even a core of 3 or 4 people can start the first monthly meeting.
                          > >
                          > > The events would not be free - each person would probably need to pay
                          > > for their own time at the internet cafe. Hopefully, that is a cost
                          that
                          > > most group members would find reasonable. If the cost of renting a
                          > > place would be too high, though, perhaps the larger Wikimedia
                          Foundation
                          > > could help by funding some startup events (probably no more than
                          $50 or
                          > > $100 to rent an internet cafe for a couple of hours...)
                          > >
                          > > Those are my initial musings - thanks to Ibou for beginning the
                          discussion!
                          > >
                          > > Best from Pretoria,
                          > > Martin
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          > _________________________
                          > http://www.redsea-online.com
                          >
                        • Patrick Hall
                          Hello, I ve been mostly lurking around here for a while, I thought I would throw in my 2 cents on this very interesting thread. Following up on the thoughts of
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jun 24, 2008
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                            Hello,

                            I've been mostly lurking around here for a while, I thought I would
                            throw in my 2 cents on this very interesting thread.

                            Following up on the thoughts of Ibou and Martin: it might be useful to
                            produce some flyers, brochures, or even business cards with the
                            essentials about Wikipedia and its goals. This original material could
                            be kept on a wiki, and then translated (and modified, if appropriate)
                            to various languages. They could be printed and distributed to places
                            where potential contributors might gather.

                            In my neighborhood (near Washington DC, in the US), I can think of
                            several places where (for instance) Ethiopians hang out: restaurants,
                            coffee shops, markets, etc. Such places often have billboards. I could
                            imagine a flyer containing:

                            * a sample excerpt of an existing article in the language
                            * a description of the goals of Wikipedia
                            * some contact points for volunteers willing to act as liaisons
                            * and of course, links

                            If we could get some process for producing such materials, it might be
                            helpful for local Wikipedia chapters or groups to kickstart their own
                            promotion campaigns.

                            cheers,
                            Pat
                          • Don Osborn
                            Hi Gerard, Thanks for the clarification and additional thoughts. How would Wikimedia chapters be expensive? I agree that their purpose should be clear (beyond
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jun 25, 2008
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                              Hi Gerard, Thanks for the clarification and additional thoughts.

                              How would Wikimedia chapters be expensive? I agree that their purpose
                              should be clear (beyond holding meetings), and Martin's suggestions
                              point at possible approaches. But what kinds of expense?

                              In order to get to action, information is pretty much essential -
                              things can self organize to a degree but communication, fedback of
                              some sort, is necessary. Planning and coordination can make it even
                              better. The expense in that might be better than no expense and less
                              communication, in terms of outcomes.

                              On the high end, I think there probably is a need for an outside
                              funded program to support some kinds of content creation. Wikipedia in
                              diverse languages of Africa can play an educational role, I think, or
                              even have a value for certain kinds of development extension, in ways
                              that may be different than what we see in the wealthier and better
                              connected countries.

                              This is on a tangent, but I'd love to see a kind of "popular science"
                              program to develop articles on basic science topics in diverse African
                              languages, and to do it in a way that builds skills and knowledge
                              among contributors in Africa. Would outside funding for such a project
                              be more likely if there were local organizations in Africa (like
                              Wikimedia chapters) that could partner with funders?

                              Don



                              --- In afrophonewikis@yahoogroups.com, "Gerard Meijssen"
                              <gerard.meijssen@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hoi,
                              > The problem with chapters and other grand schemes is that they are
                              > expensive. They do not bring us necessarily any closer to what they,
                              we aim
                              > to achieve. This list is in-expensive, at worst it costs us time. People
                              > like Ibou are important because they DO make a difference, they write,
                              > localise and they are our true heroes.
                              >
                              > When we discuss Wikimedia chapters, then you have to analyse what it
                              is they
                              > do. Not their talk but their deeds. Given the current chapters, they
                              support
                              > countries with an existing strong community of editors. In some
                              countries
                              > like the USA that is not even enough to get chapters organised.
                              Because of
                              > this I am not positive about what it is chapters would bring. There
                              is no
                              > community, so who would they represent ? There is no community, so
                              who is it
                              > will organise this and at what cost ?
                              >
                              > This list is useful, it is even needed. It is good that we discuss any
                              > suggestion, it is even important that we do. Now, this list is about
                              > stimulating Wikipedias / Free Content. I believe in schemes when I
                              see more
                              > free content created as a result. I am told that you can hire a
                              student to
                              > write encyclopaedic content for what in the "developed" world would be
                              > considered a pittance. We could do just that.. It is likely to cost much
                              > less then initiating organisations that are not likely to make the same
                              > difference..
                              >
                              > In the end, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Our proof is in
                              > articles, people reading / using a Wikipedia in their language..
                              >
                              > Thanks,
                              > Gerard
                              >
                              > On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 3:17 PM, Don Osborn <dzo@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > Hi Gerard,
                              > >
                              > > You wrote:
                              > > > We can do without this list, ...
                              > >
                              > > Did you really mean to say that? We have good discussion begun by a
                              > > proposal brought up by a regular contributor to an African language
                              > > edition and that's your opening response?
                              > >
                              > > There is no other forum that I'm aware of to share information and
                              > > ideas to assist the ultimate common aim we agree on, and you say we
                              > > can do without it?
                              > >
                              > > From what I see in general, such forums to bring together diverse
                              > > people working on similar efforts for African languages (not just
                              > > Wikimedia, but all sorts of localization) are needed.
                              > >
                              > > > ... we can do without grand ideas when people are
                              > > > work ingon projects in these languages.. ...
                              > >
                              > > I think this is a false dichotomy. There have been here and elsewhere
                              > > discussions of how to facilitate the development of African language
                              > > Wikipedias, and some of those will necessarily involve "grand ideas."
                              > > We all agree that ultimately people working on the projects is the
                              > > goal. The current discussion deals with an aspect I personally hadn't
                              > > thought of - Wikimedia chapters. How is that any more "grand" or any
                              > > less practical than, say, Wikipedia Academies?
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > > ... We need people that write
                              > > > encyclopaedic articles in order to make Wikipedias happen. We need
                              > > > localisation so that people can have a complete experience in their
                              > > > language..
                              > >
                              > > Of course. The current discussion is as I read it, related to how
                              > > larger efforts can help the process, with Wikimedia chapters being a
                              > > specific idea.
                              > >
                              > > > What we need is people writing content, we need to be able to
                              > > collect these
                              > > > articles in a central repository and we need to be able to get these
                              > > > articles out to readers for the information it contains...
                              > >
                              > > Again, we'd all agree. But ways to get there is the motivation for the
                              > > discussion and one of the purposes of this list.
                              > >
                              > > > We only need writers and readers...
                              > >
                              > > We also need people to find them, which is one of the issues behind
                              > > discussions like the current one to close xh.wikipedia.org at
                              > >
                              > >
                              http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Xhosa_Wikipedia
                              > > . Writers and readers for African languages don't just happen in the
                              > > same degree as for more resourced languages in countries with more
                              > > access - there is a need to address this issue proactively or we'll
                              > > just be discussing closing more African language Wikipedias.
                              > >
                              > > > ... The reason why it makes sense to
                              > > > collaborate is that it not only saves the language but also the
                              > > associated
                              > > > culture, its products and its value that is has for the people that
                              > > make up
                              > > > this culture.. This is what it we should aim for..
                              > > > Thanks,
                              > > > Gerard
                              > >
                              > > You certainly have read what has been written by various people in
                              > > this thread and earlier. There are a lot of people - potential
                              > > contributors presumably among them - who haven't heard of Wikipedia or
                              > > who have little or no concept of what it is or how to use it. How to
                              > > do better outreach to involve them?
                              > >
                              > > Collaboration on this list serves such "meta" issues as relate to the
                              > > specific challenges faced by African language communities and
                              Wikimedia.
                              > >
                              > > I respect and admire the work you've been doing, Gerard, but I think
                              > > you're off base in your negative comments. We're really working to the
                              > > same ends and this list and this discussion are supportive of those on
                              > > a level that needs more attention, IMHO.
                              > >
                              > > So a question for the group: How could Africa-based Wikimedia chapters
                              > > help develop Wikipedia communities in various countries?
                              > >
                              > > Don
                              > >
                              > > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 1:31 PM, renaud gaudin <rgaudin@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > > On 6/24/08, Oliver Stegen <oliver@ <oliver%40ling.ed.ac.uk>>
                              > > > > wrote:
                              > > > > > Do you have a similarly central location in West Africa which
                              > > > > > everybody uses as a travel hub?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > No, but I don't think we need such a place. The action that
                              chapter
                              > > > > will do would be prepared over Internet and (if necessary)
                              deployed in
                              > > > > each countries/places.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > The core idea is that we have to deal with the same problems so we
                              > > > > should get together and solve them once for all instead of
                              creating
                              > > > > numerous chapters and waste time targetting the same issues.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > You got the idea (thank you !) but I don't think that we need a
                              > > > > physical place for that.
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Don Osborn
                              Thanks Martin, Jama, Ibou and all, Martin s summary seems like an excellent basis for discussion. A few quick questions: 1) Would such chapters be organized
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jun 25, 2008
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                                Thanks Martin, Jama, Ibou and all,

                                Martin's summary seems like an excellent basis for discussion.

                                A few quick questions:

                                1) Would such chapters be organized primarily along the lines of
                                countries (regions have been suggested also) or languages? Wikipedia
                                editions are of course for languages, and languages in Africa cross
                                borders. Could country level chapters serve as ways to facilitate work
                                in diverse languages and crossborder contacts as necessary?

                                2) If it came to it, I think that a structure that brought together
                                diverse language groups in one country, and encouraged virtual
                                connections facilitating collaboration among same language groups in
                                neighboring countries and around the world (since the example of Wolof
                                was used, Senegal, Gambia, and Wolofophones overseas).

                                3) What would be the possibility of collaborating with other
                                organizations like ISOC chapters to share resources, membership, and
                                possibly cosponsor events? In any case, if there were Wikimedia
                                chapters, they could in theory link with local educational events like
                                "Fête de l'Internet" to make presentations or workshop sessions on
                                Wikipedia.

                                I suppose ultimately that if one group in Africa tries it, maybe we'll
                                learn enough to know whether this is an approach that would work.

                                Don

                                --- In afrophonewikis@yahoogroups.com, "ibouwiki" <ibou02@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Martin
                                > your comment is very elequent, you understand realy what is african
                                > projects need, i believe that your idea is the only solution.
                                >
                                > they need more advertising, a local wikimedia which member go to talk
                                > with people, students, journalist (who write articles in their
                                > news-paper about wikipedia), other association, explain what is
                                > wikimedia,... like Jama said, we live together in italy, by that means
                                > we know what wikimedia italy do for theirs projects.
                                >
                                > ciao, ibou
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In afrophonewikis@yahoogroups.com, "Jama Musse Jama" <jmgurey@>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I think Martin summarized well all what African languages can
                                > benefit from
                                > > this thread started by Ibou (thank you).
                                > >
                                > > I live in Italy, and am following for the last three yeards the
                                > wikimedia
                                > > chapter, and I can assure you that even in Italy where the wikipedia
                                > > community is well established, the work done by this chapter is
                                > extremely
                                > > essential for the it.wikipedia.org.
                                > >
                                > > kind regards, Jama
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Martin Benjamin <
                                > > martin.benjamin@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > Ibou's original question about a Wolof/ Senegal Wikimedia
                                > chapter raises
                                > > >
                                > > > some interesting possibilities.
                                > > >
                                > > > This is the page that explains what a Wikimedia chapter is:
                                > > > http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Local_chapters
                                > > >
                                > > > One important point about chapters is that they are each independent
                                > > > entities that can support the larger goals of the Wikimedia
                                Foundation
                                > > > in different ways.
                                > > >
                                > > > Let's imagine the following scenario for a Wikimedia chapter that
                                > wanted
                                > > > to promote Wolof in the Wiki world:
                                > > >
                                > > > 1) The chapter could be physically based in Dakar, but also welcome
                                > > > online participation (for example, Ibou might want to
                                participate from
                                > > > Italy)
                                > > >
                                > > > 2) The chapter could host monthly meetings at a Dakar internet
                                > cafe, or
                                > > > at a university or NGO that has an available room with a lot of
                                > > > computers and good internet access. Senegalese expatriates could
                                > > > participate online, in an IRC channel.
                                > > >
                                > > > 3) Each monthly meeting could have its own theme. Examples:
                                > > > * how to use MediaWiki (with the meeting output being an online help
                                > > > guide for MediaWiki, in Wolof)
                                > > > * how to write a good encyclopedia article (with the meeting output
                                > > > being an online help guide to writing a Wikipedia article,
                                > including an
                                > > > article about No Point Of View, in Wolof)
                                > > > * how to use Wikipedia (meeting output being a guide for
                                teachers and
                                > > > students about different ways to find information on Wikipedia, the
                                > > > importance of double-checking facts, and tips for fixing errors,
                                > in Wolof)
                                > > > * politics in Senegal (meeting output being Wikipedia articles about
                                > > > each political party in Senegal, in Wolof)
                                > > > * history of Senegal (meeting output being Wikipedia articles about
                                > > > major historical figures of Senegal, in Wolof)
                                > > > * media in Senegal (meeting output being Wikipedia articles
                                about the
                                > > > various TV, radio, and newspaper outlets in Senegal, in Wolof)
                                > > > * education in Senegal (output = articles about universities and
                                other
                                > > > post-secondary educational institutions)
                                > > > * agriculture in Senegal (output = articles about major crops,
                                > rainfall
                                > > > patterns, planting techniques)
                                > > > * trade in Senegal (output = articles about major industries,
                                > > > businesses, etc)
                                > > > * Senegal stubs (output = basic stubs for articles about various
                                > > > categories: Senegalese villages, Senegalese sports teams, Senegalese
                                > > > members of parliament, Wolof astrological constellations, West
                                African
                                > > > trees, etc)
                                > > > * anything else related to Senegal...
                                > > >
                                > > > 4) The group would probably start small at first, but each member
                                > would
                                > > > make a serious effort to invite people they think would be
                                interested
                                > > > and could learn the minimum necessary computer skills
                                > > >
                                > > > 5) Each month the group could invite a member of the media to
                                > attend, so
                                > > > that newspaper articles, radio, and TV exposure would increase
                                > awareness
                                > > > and membership
                                > > >
                                > > > 6) Each month the group could invite someone as an official
                                guest, for
                                > > > example, Ministère de la Culture, du Patrimoine historique
                                classé, des
                                > > > Langues nationales et de la Francophonie, or other government
                                > ministries
                                > > > listed here: http://www.gouv.sn/institutions/gouvernement.html
                                > > >
                                > > > 7) Each month the group could invite a teacher or headmaster from a
                                > > > secondary school in the Dakar area, with the goal that the school
                                > would
                                > > > teach students about using and contributing to Wikipedia. Group
                                > members
                                > > > could also visit the different schools to participate in student
                                > workshops.
                                > > >
                                > > > If the group had 20 members who wrote just one article each at the
                                > > > monthly meeting, the immediate result would be almost 300 good
                                > articles
                                > > > in a year. More importantly, though, would be the longer term
                                results:
                                > > > * each member would probably write more articles during the
                                course of
                                > > > the month
                                > > > * the events would raise wider awareness of contributing to Wolof
                                > Wikipedia
                                > > > * wider awareness would lead to more people using Wolof Wikipedia,
                                > which
                                > > > would lead to more people starting to contribute, more group
                                > members, etc
                                > > >
                                > > > I am, of course, only using Wolof as an example. This concept
                                could be
                                > > > used in any place where a computer facility can be located, and
                                where
                                > > > even a core of 3 or 4 people can start the first monthly meeting.
                                > > >
                                > > > The events would not be free - each person would probably need
                                to pay
                                > > > for their own time at the internet cafe. Hopefully, that is a cost
                                > that
                                > > > most group members would find reasonable. If the cost of renting a
                                > > > place would be too high, though, perhaps the larger Wikimedia
                                > Foundation
                                > > > could help by funding some startup events (probably no more than
                                > $50 or
                                > > > $100 to rent an internet cafe for a couple of hours...)
                                > > >
                                > > > Those are my initial musings - thanks to Ibou for beginning the
                                > discussion!
                                > > >
                                > > > Best from Pretoria,
                                > > > Martin
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --
                                > > _________________________
                                > > http://www.redsea-online.com
                                > >
                                >
                              • Don Osborn
                                Hi Patrick, Glad you brought this up. We know that many times it is Africans overseas who are in a position to do more with African languages and technology
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jun 25, 2008
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                                  Hi Patrick, Glad you brought this up. We know that many times it is
                                  Africans overseas who are in a position to do more with African
                                  languages and technology than many of their compatriots in their
                                  countries of origin.

                                  I've noted that in the Washington area for instance, there is not only
                                  a significant Ethiopian community (largely but not all Amharic
                                  speakers), but also African immigrants from many parts of the
                                  continent. Finding a few of them who would be interested in working on
                                  Wikipedia in their first language could have some interesting benefits.

                                  Not long ago, I posted an announcement about developing a "Fedde
                                  Wikipedia" in Maryland but got zero response. It was in Fulfulde
                                  (Maasinankoore) and Pular (of Fuuta Jalon), so the fact it got no
                                  response was not a surprise - just an experiment.

                                  Maybe it's time to make a focused and better publicized effort in the
                                  Washington, DC area (and other areas outside of Africa where there are
                                  many Africans) to complement efforts in Africa? Perhaps we could
                                  discuss your suggestion.

                                  Don

                                  --- In afrophonewikis@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Hall" <pathall@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hello,
                                  >
                                  > I've been mostly lurking around here for a while, I thought I would
                                  > throw in my 2 cents on this very interesting thread.
                                  >
                                  > Following up on the thoughts of Ibou and Martin: it might be useful to
                                  > produce some flyers, brochures, or even business cards with the
                                  > essentials about Wikipedia and its goals. This original material could
                                  > be kept on a wiki, and then translated (and modified, if appropriate)
                                  > to various languages. They could be printed and distributed to places
                                  > where potential contributors might gather.
                                  >
                                  > In my neighborhood (near Washington DC, in the US), I can think of
                                  > several places where (for instance) Ethiopians hang out: restaurants,
                                  > coffee shops, markets, etc. Such places often have billboards. I could
                                  > imagine a flyer containing:
                                  >
                                  > * a sample excerpt of an existing article in the language
                                  > * a description of the goals of Wikipedia
                                  > * some contact points for volunteers willing to act as liaisons
                                  > * and of course, links
                                  >
                                  > If we could get some process for producing such materials, it might be
                                  > helpful for local Wikipedia chapters or groups to kickstart their own
                                  > promotion campaigns.
                                  >
                                  > cheers,
                                  > Pat
                                  >
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