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Re: Family in Rhodesia, Kenya and South Africa

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  • Methodius Hayes
    ... have moved north th South Africa (fought with the Boers in the South African War of 1899-1902), may have moved into Rhodesia and/or Kenya after that.
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 28, 2006
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      --- In afgen@yahoogroups.com, linda ireland <linneiren@...> wrote:
      >
      > I am looking for members of the Pohl Family ( Eastern Cape) who may
      have moved north th South Africa (fought with the Boers in the South
      African War of 1899-1902), may have moved into Rhodesia and/or Kenya
      after that.

      Perhaps this is a member of that family:

      Pohl The Revd Canon Wilfred Ernest
      Post
      Add. (H): P O Box 67184, Bryanston, 2021
      Add. (H): 73 Mount Street, Bryanston, 2021 Tel. (H): (011) 784 5168
      Spouse: Elaine Grace [Diocese: Johannesburg]

      From the Anglican Church directory.
    • Anton Dil
      Hi Linda I have the following in They Came to Northern Rhodesia , compiled by Richard Sampson (1956) from local archives. This (slim) book records persons
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 2, 2006
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        Hi Linda
         
        I have the following in "They Came to Northern Rhodesia", compiled by Richard Sampson (1956) from local archives. This (slim) book records "persons who had entered what is now the territory of (Northern Rhodesia) Zambia by 31st December 1902."
         
        Only clear proof of entry is employed, unless the person is know to have been at Vic Falls, in which case Sampson reckons that one foot in the Zambezi is in Zambia.
         
        NWR is supposed to refer to North-western Rhodesia,which takes in some of Southern, Copperbelt, Part of Central, Western and North-western Lusaka areas of Zambia. 
         
        POHL, Alfred
        Transport contractor. Entered north western Rhodesia November 1897 from south with supplies for Coillard. Re-entered NWR 1899. Transport rider for large police party to Fort Monze.

        References:
        1. The Northern Rhodesia Journal No.3 
        2. Letter from C. E. Wienand (to R. Sampson).
         
        The second reference might be held at the Livingstone museum. The book says it is deposited at the Rhodes-Livingstone Museum in Livingstone, which I presume is the one existing museum that I know of in Livingstone. I have never quizzed them about what they hold there, and it has been many years since I visited it.  Last time I was there it looked quite bare... (Curiously, my copy of this book is stamped Livingstone Museum. I don't know how my family came to be in possession of it.)
         
        Hope this is of interest.
         
        I am also looking through my books regarding other queries posted here, but haven't turned up anything else yet.  I have quite a lot on missionaries...
         
        Regards to All
         
        Anton Dil (in central England)

        linda ireland <linneiren@...> wrote:
        I am looking for members of the Pohl Family ( Eastern Cape) who may have moved north th South Africa (fought with the Boers in the South African War of 1899-1902), may have moved into Rhodesia and/or Kenya after that.
         
        Linda Ireland


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      • Colin Garvie
        Hi Anton ... Could you check for me too, please? I have the following transcribed clipping, a printed letter addressed to a certain Dr Munro, regarding a trip
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 2, 2006
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          Hi Anton

          > I have the following in "They Came to Northern Rhodesia", compiled by
          > Richard Sampson (1956) from local archives. This (slim) book records
          > "persons who had entered what is now the territory of (Northern
          > Rhodesia) Zambia by 31st December 1902."

          Could you check for me too, please?

          I have the following transcribed clipping, a printed letter addressed to a certain Dr
          Munro, regarding a trip Donald Sutherland Garvie made into Central Africa but I have
          never been able to establish the source of this nor who the Dr Munro is. Perhaps you or
          someone else on the list can assist.

          Q /
          ---X--------------------------------
          O \

          JOHANNESBURG, January 23, 1899.

          Dear Dr Munro,

          I have pleasure in stating, according to your request, what I saw generally, as well as re
          locusts, in my travels in the north of South Africa and in Central Africa. There were three
          partners of us, and we went on a trading tour as well as on a voyage of experience and
          discovery. We started from Buluwayo, and trekked northwards, along the Guay River,
          crossing the Zambesi River at Wankies Drift, about the 27th degree longitude, that is,
          seventy or eighty miles east of the Victoria Falls, or about the confluence of the Guay
          River with the Zambesi. We travelled in a northerly direction to the Mashu Kalumbwe
          country, passing through parts of the Betonga country, and crossing the Mashu
          Kalumbwe northern border at Naupagi. We then journeyed north-west to the Kafue
          River, extending about 250 miles into Central Africa proper, to the north of the Zambesi
          River at the point mentioned. As far as we could ascertain, never did any white man
          travel in these parts or along the same route through the Mashu Kalumbwe country
          before. The natives made long journeys to see us. In the Betonga country, for a distance
          of about 100 miles to the north of the Zambesi, over which the Chartered Company has
          some sort of influence, the natives are peaceably inclined, and before approaching you,
          the custom - amounting to a rule - is universally observed, namely, to lay down their
          arms -assegais. But farther north in the Mashu Kalumbwe country they do not do so, they
          do not acknowledge this right or obligation upon approaching a white person, so they
          retain some seven or eight assegais under the left arm, and one in the right hand, ready
          for action if they see occasion. In all that country the natives have no firearms, and all
          appear to be frightened of them. The Betongas use the old elephant muzzle-loading guns,
          and seldom do they ever waste a shot, as they shoot at a very short range. We met with
          some trouble on more than one occasion from the Mashu Kalumbwe natives.
          The locust plague extends all over the country through which we travelled. We passed
          many swarms on the wing during our journey. The natives suffer immensely by the
          locusts, and many of the Betonga natives are in great wretchedness from this cause, and
          are actually dying of starvation, the locusts having almost cleared the fields of grain.

          In order to illustrate the state of things induced from this cause in that country, it will be
          well to state what I passed through - of course, any description must fall short of the
          reality in such a case. The thought of the sights I saw makes me still shudder as I recall
          them to mind. In the course of our business it fell to my lot to return alone by a certain
          route. The journey was one of twelve days' fair or good travelling, and I had to walk all
          the way, I left my partners at a native village called Marico, about forty miles from
          Mondy, where I intended trading, and securing enough grain to last me until my arrival at
          the Zambesi River, which was five days' journey from Mondy. So, after providing myself
          with the necessary beads and limbo, i.e. calico for trading, and procuring food, I
          proceeded from Marico to Mondy. But on making the requisite inquiry at Mondy, I
          found to to my surprise and consternation that no grain could there be had to help me in
          the way I expected. The locusts has eaten it up, so that I could at most secure only one
          small wooden bowlful (just enough for one meal). All the way down from Mondy to the
          Zambesi River I discovered in several instances that the natives had been starving, and
          that many had died from this cause. On arriving at the native village, called Matagalli, it
          was very evident that the people were ingreat distress, for they subsisted for the means of
          living solely on roots and the bark of a certain tree. Out of the five days' march from
          Mondy to the Zambesi River I had only three meals, which consisted of boiled Kaffir
          corn.

          Game of all kinds is very plentiful, north of the Zambesi River, but having run short of
          ammunition, I was unable to kill or procure any game. Often on the march I had to delay
          an hour or two to enable the "boys" who were travelling with me to dig up roots to eat.

          Then again I have seen the natives eat the locusts. They cook them by roasting them
          entire on the cinders obtainable from a fire of wood, and they eat all except the wings.
          On arriving at the Zambesi River, the difference there was notable - there the natives
          were more fortunate, for they had an abundance of fish, and a fair amount or supply of
          grain. I managed to secure enoughgrain to carry me on to N'Gwatie's, where we had left
          our waggon on the outward journey, with ample provision for our return journey. At this
          place I met my partners, and there we exchanged accounts of our respective perils and
          experiences. They had in their tour observed the same distress amongst the natives,
          caused by the locusts, along the route in which my companions also travelled.

          The Mashu Kalumbwe country possesses very beautiful scenery. Its large palm trees give
          great picturesqueness to it. It abounds in fine pasture, and there are numerous herds of
          cattle, especially north of the Kafue River. Some large droves of sheep and goats are to
          be found in the Betonga country, but very few cattle there.

          Anything that could alleviate this vast extent of fine country from the plague of locusts
          would be a great benefaction, not only or merely, though very directly to the natives, but
          also to the entire country - a gain to the world in its own way.
          With my compliments and best wishes for the success of your aims and objects,
          I remain, yours faithfully,
          DON. S. GARVIE.

          Q /
          ---X--------------------------------
          O \

          Donald Garvie (b.3 Jun 1873, Edinburgh, Scotland) married Cornelia Steyn (b.?, Barclay
          East) and are referred to in Meinetzhagen's "Kenya Diary"....

          "The only European settlers in the whole of the Nandi country are two Boer families
          called Garvie and Steyn...terrified of the Nandi."
          - Col. R.Meinertzhagen, Kenya 1905.

          Donald died and is buried in Nairobi in 1912.

          Any information pertaining to either the Garvie or Steyn referred to here would be
          greatly appreciated. As well as references to Dr Munro and the "Chartered Company"
          mentioned in the letter.

          Colin Garvie
          Durban
        • Anton Dil
          Not finding anything on Munro, Garvie or Steyn, but there are some Steyns in Lusaka s one school in 1925 See the link below from Richard Sampson s So This Was
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 5, 2006
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            Not finding anything on Munro, Garvie or Steyn, but there are some Steyns in Lusaka's one school in 1925
             
            See the link below from Richard Sampson's 'So This Was Lusaakas" (The story of the capital of Zambia)
             
            Listing school children in Lusaka in 1925, many of whose families, I imagine, would have come up from the south
             
            Anton


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          • Anton Dil
            It s a guess, but this might be the British South Africa Company. There s something on its origins at Kew CO 879/37/7 See also the scramble for Africa Anton
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 5, 2006
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              It's a guess, but this might be the British South Africa Company.
               
              There's something on its origins at Kew
              CO 879/37/7
               
              See also  "the scramble for Africa"

              Anton

              Colin Garvie <garvie@...> wrote:
              Hi Anton

              > I have the following in "They Came to Northern Rhodesia", compiled by
              > Richard Sampson (1956) from local archives. This (slim) book records
              > "persons who had entered what is now the territory of (Northern
              > Rhodesia) Zambia by 31st December 1902."

              Could you check for me too, please?

              I have the following transcribed clipping, a printed letter addressed to a certain Dr
              Munro, regarding a trip Donald Sutherland Garvie made into Central Africa but I have
              never been able to establish the source of this nor who the Dr Munro is. Perhaps you or
              someone else on the list can assist.

              Q /
              ---X--------------------------------
              O \

              JOHANNESBURG, January 23, 1899.

              Dear Dr Munro,

              I have pleasure in stating, according to your request, what I saw generally, as well as re
              locusts, in my travels in the north of South Africa and in Central Africa. There were three
              partners of us, and we went on a trading tour as well as on a voyage of experience and
              discovery. We started from Buluwayo, and trekked northwards, along the Guay River,
              crossing the Zambesi River at Wankies Drift, about the 27th degree longitude, that is,
              seventy or eighty miles east of the Victoria Falls, or about the confluence of the Guay
              River with the Zambesi. We travelled in a northerly direction to the Mashu Kalumbwe
              country, passing through parts of the Betonga country, and crossing the Mashu
              Kalumbwe northern border at Naupagi. We then journeyed north-west to the Kafue
              River, extending about 250 miles into Central Africa proper, to the north of the Zambesi
              River at the point mentioned. As far as we could ascertain, never did any white man
              travel in these parts or along the same route through the Mashu Kalumbwe country
              before. The natives made long journeys to see us. In the Betonga country, for a distance
              of about 100 miles to the north of the Zambesi, over which the Chartered Company has
              some sort of influence, the natives are peaceably inclined, and before approaching you,
              the custom - amounting to a rule - is universally observed, namely, to lay down their
              arms -assegais. But farther north in the Mashu Kalumbwe country they do not do so, they
              do not acknowledge this right or obligation upon approaching a white person, so they
              retain some seven or eight assegais under the left arm, and one in the right hand, ready
              for action if they see occasion. In all that country the natives have no firearms, and all
              appear to be frightened of them. The Betongas use the old elephant muzzle-loading guns,
              and seldom do they ever waste a shot, as they shoot at a very short range. We met with
              some trouble on more than one occasion from the Mashu Kalumbwe natives.
              The locust plague extends all over the country through which we travelled. We passed
              many swarms on the wing during our journey. The natives suffer immensely by the
              locusts, and many of the Betonga natives are in great wretchedness from this cause, and
              are actually dying of starvation, the locusts having almost cleared the fields of grain.

              In order to illustrate the state of things induced from this cause in that country, it will be
              well to state what I passed through - of course, any description must fall short of the
              reality in such a case. The thought of the sights I saw makes me still shudder as I recall
              them to mind. In the course of our business it fell to my lot to return alone by a certain
              route. The journey was one of twelve days' fair or good travelling, and I had to walk all
              the way, I left my partners at a native village called Marico, about forty miles from
              Mondy, where I intended trading, and securing enough grain to last me until my arrival at
              the Zambesi River, which was five days' journey from Mondy. So, after providing myself
              with the necessary beads and limbo, i.e. calico for trading, and procuring food, I
              proceeded from Marico to Mondy. But on making the requisite inquiry at Mondy, I
              found to to my surprise and consternation that no grain could there be had to help me in
              the way I expected. The locusts has eaten it up, so that I could at most secure only one
              small wooden bowlful (just enough for one meal). All the way down from Mondy to the
              Zambesi River I discovered in several instances that the natives had been starving, and
              that many had died from this cause. On arriving at the native village, called Matagalli, it
              was very evident that the people were ingreat distress, for they subsisted for the means of
              living solely on roots and the bark of a certain tree. Out of the five days' march from
              Mondy to the Zambesi River I had only three meals, which consisted of boiled Kaffir
              corn.

              Game of all kinds is very plentiful, north of the Zambesi River, but having run short of
              ammunition, I was unable to kill or procure any game. Often on the march I had to delay
              an hour or two to enable the "boys" who were travelling with me to dig up roots to eat.

              Then again I have seen the natives eat the locusts. They cook them by roasting them
              entire on the cinders obtainable from a fire of wood, and they eat all except the wings.
              On arriving at the Zambesi River, the difference there was notable - there the natives
              were more fortunate, for they had an abundance of fish, and a fair amount or supply of
              grain. I managed to secure enoughgrain to carry me on to N'Gwatie's, where we had left
              our waggon on the outward journey, with ample provision for our return journey. At this
              place I met my partners, and there we exchanged accounts of our respective perils and
              experiences. They had in their tour observed the same distress amongst the natives,
              caused by the locusts, along the route in which my companions also travelled.

              The Mashu Kalumbwe country possesses very beautiful scenery. Its large palm trees give
              great picturesqueness to it. It abounds in fine pasture, and there are numerous herds of
              cattle, especially north of the Kafue River. Some large droves of sheep and goats are to
              be found in the Betonga country, but very few cattle there.

              Anything that could alleviate this vast extent of fine country from the plague of locusts
              would be a great benefaction, not only or merely, though very directly to the natives, but
              also to the entire country - a gain to the world in its own way.
              With my compliments and best wishes for the success of your aims and objects,
              I remain, yours faithfully,
              DON. S. GARVIE.

              Q /
              ---X--------------------------------
              O \

              Donald Garvie (b.3 Jun 1873, Edinburgh, Scotland) married Cornelia Steyn (b.?, Barclay
              East) and are referred to in Meinetzhagen's "Kenya Diary"....

              "The only European settlers in the whole of the Nandi country are two Boer families
              called Garvie and Steyn...terrified of the Nandi."
              - Col. R.Meinertzhagen, Kenya 1905.

              Donald died and is buried in Nairobi in 1912.

              Any information pertaining to either the Garvie or Steyn referred to here would be
              greatly appreciated. As well as references to Dr Munro and the "Chartered Company"
              mentioned in the letter.

              Colin Garvie
              Durban






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