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Family in Rhodesia, Kenya and South Africa

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  • linda ireland
    I am looking for members of the Pohl Family ( Eastern Cape) who may have moved north th South Africa (fought with the Boers in the South African War of
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 27 2:29 AM
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      I am looking for members of the Pohl Family ( Eastern Cape) who may have moved north th South Africa (fought with the Boers in the South African War of 1899-1902), may have moved into Rhodesia and/or Kenya after that.
       
      Linda Ireland


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    • Methodius Hayes
      ... have moved north th South Africa (fought with the Boers in the South African War of 1899-1902), may have moved into Rhodesia and/or Kenya after that.
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 28 1:26 AM
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        --- In afgen@yahoogroups.com, linda ireland <linneiren@...> wrote:
        >
        > I am looking for members of the Pohl Family ( Eastern Cape) who may
        have moved north th South Africa (fought with the Boers in the South
        African War of 1899-1902), may have moved into Rhodesia and/or Kenya
        after that.

        Perhaps this is a member of that family:

        Pohl The Revd Canon Wilfred Ernest
        Post
        Add. (H): P O Box 67184, Bryanston, 2021
        Add. (H): 73 Mount Street, Bryanston, 2021 Tel. (H): (011) 784 5168
        Spouse: Elaine Grace [Diocese: Johannesburg]

        From the Anglican Church directory.
      • Anton Dil
        Hi Linda I have the following in They Came to Northern Rhodesia , compiled by Richard Sampson (1956) from local archives. This (slim) book records persons
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 2, 2006
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          Hi Linda
           
          I have the following in "They Came to Northern Rhodesia", compiled by Richard Sampson (1956) from local archives. This (slim) book records "persons who had entered what is now the territory of (Northern Rhodesia) Zambia by 31st December 1902."
           
          Only clear proof of entry is employed, unless the person is know to have been at Vic Falls, in which case Sampson reckons that one foot in the Zambezi is in Zambia.
           
          NWR is supposed to refer to North-western Rhodesia,which takes in some of Southern, Copperbelt, Part of Central, Western and North-western Lusaka areas of Zambia. 
           
          POHL, Alfred
          Transport contractor. Entered north western Rhodesia November 1897 from south with supplies for Coillard. Re-entered NWR 1899. Transport rider for large police party to Fort Monze.

          References:
          1. The Northern Rhodesia Journal No.3 
          2. Letter from C. E. Wienand (to R. Sampson).
           
          The second reference might be held at the Livingstone museum. The book says it is deposited at the Rhodes-Livingstone Museum in Livingstone, which I presume is the one existing museum that I know of in Livingstone. I have never quizzed them about what they hold there, and it has been many years since I visited it.  Last time I was there it looked quite bare... (Curiously, my copy of this book is stamped Livingstone Museum. I don't know how my family came to be in possession of it.)
           
          Hope this is of interest.
           
          I am also looking through my books regarding other queries posted here, but haven't turned up anything else yet.  I have quite a lot on missionaries...
           
          Regards to All
           
          Anton Dil (in central England)

          linda ireland <linneiren@...> wrote:
          I am looking for members of the Pohl Family ( Eastern Cape) who may have moved north th South Africa (fought with the Boers in the South African War of 1899-1902), may have moved into Rhodesia and/or Kenya after that.
           
          Linda Ireland


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        • Colin Garvie
          Hi Anton ... Could you check for me too, please? I have the following transcribed clipping, a printed letter addressed to a certain Dr Munro, regarding a trip
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 2, 2006
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            Hi Anton

            > I have the following in "They Came to Northern Rhodesia", compiled by
            > Richard Sampson (1956) from local archives. This (slim) book records
            > "persons who had entered what is now the territory of (Northern
            > Rhodesia) Zambia by 31st December 1902."

            Could you check for me too, please?

            I have the following transcribed clipping, a printed letter addressed to a certain Dr
            Munro, regarding a trip Donald Sutherland Garvie made into Central Africa but I have
            never been able to establish the source of this nor who the Dr Munro is. Perhaps you or
            someone else on the list can assist.

            Q /
            ---X--------------------------------
            O \

            JOHANNESBURG, January 23, 1899.

            Dear Dr Munro,

            I have pleasure in stating, according to your request, what I saw generally, as well as re
            locusts, in my travels in the north of South Africa and in Central Africa. There were three
            partners of us, and we went on a trading tour as well as on a voyage of experience and
            discovery. We started from Buluwayo, and trekked northwards, along the Guay River,
            crossing the Zambesi River at Wankies Drift, about the 27th degree longitude, that is,
            seventy or eighty miles east of the Victoria Falls, or about the confluence of the Guay
            River with the Zambesi. We travelled in a northerly direction to the Mashu Kalumbwe
            country, passing through parts of the Betonga country, and crossing the Mashu
            Kalumbwe northern border at Naupagi. We then journeyed north-west to the Kafue
            River, extending about 250 miles into Central Africa proper, to the north of the Zambesi
            River at the point mentioned. As far as we could ascertain, never did any white man
            travel in these parts or along the same route through the Mashu Kalumbwe country
            before. The natives made long journeys to see us. In the Betonga country, for a distance
            of about 100 miles to the north of the Zambesi, over which the Chartered Company has
            some sort of influence, the natives are peaceably inclined, and before approaching you,
            the custom - amounting to a rule - is universally observed, namely, to lay down their
            arms -assegais. But farther north in the Mashu Kalumbwe country they do not do so, they
            do not acknowledge this right or obligation upon approaching a white person, so they
            retain some seven or eight assegais under the left arm, and one in the right hand, ready
            for action if they see occasion. In all that country the natives have no firearms, and all
            appear to be frightened of them. The Betongas use the old elephant muzzle-loading guns,
            and seldom do they ever waste a shot, as they shoot at a very short range. We met with
            some trouble on more than one occasion from the Mashu Kalumbwe natives.
            The locust plague extends all over the country through which we travelled. We passed
            many swarms on the wing during our journey. The natives suffer immensely by the
            locusts, and many of the Betonga natives are in great wretchedness from this cause, and
            are actually dying of starvation, the locusts having almost cleared the fields of grain.

            In order to illustrate the state of things induced from this cause in that country, it will be
            well to state what I passed through - of course, any description must fall short of the
            reality in such a case. The thought of the sights I saw makes me still shudder as I recall
            them to mind. In the course of our business it fell to my lot to return alone by a certain
            route. The journey was one of twelve days' fair or good travelling, and I had to walk all
            the way, I left my partners at a native village called Marico, about forty miles from
            Mondy, where I intended trading, and securing enough grain to last me until my arrival at
            the Zambesi River, which was five days' journey from Mondy. So, after providing myself
            with the necessary beads and limbo, i.e. calico for trading, and procuring food, I
            proceeded from Marico to Mondy. But on making the requisite inquiry at Mondy, I
            found to to my surprise and consternation that no grain could there be had to help me in
            the way I expected. The locusts has eaten it up, so that I could at most secure only one
            small wooden bowlful (just enough for one meal). All the way down from Mondy to the
            Zambesi River I discovered in several instances that the natives had been starving, and
            that many had died from this cause. On arriving at the native village, called Matagalli, it
            was very evident that the people were ingreat distress, for they subsisted for the means of
            living solely on roots and the bark of a certain tree. Out of the five days' march from
            Mondy to the Zambesi River I had only three meals, which consisted of boiled Kaffir
            corn.

            Game of all kinds is very plentiful, north of the Zambesi River, but having run short of
            ammunition, I was unable to kill or procure any game. Often on the march I had to delay
            an hour or two to enable the "boys" who were travelling with me to dig up roots to eat.

            Then again I have seen the natives eat the locusts. They cook them by roasting them
            entire on the cinders obtainable from a fire of wood, and they eat all except the wings.
            On arriving at the Zambesi River, the difference there was notable - there the natives
            were more fortunate, for they had an abundance of fish, and a fair amount or supply of
            grain. I managed to secure enoughgrain to carry me on to N'Gwatie's, where we had left
            our waggon on the outward journey, with ample provision for our return journey. At this
            place I met my partners, and there we exchanged accounts of our respective perils and
            experiences. They had in their tour observed the same distress amongst the natives,
            caused by the locusts, along the route in which my companions also travelled.

            The Mashu Kalumbwe country possesses very beautiful scenery. Its large palm trees give
            great picturesqueness to it. It abounds in fine pasture, and there are numerous herds of
            cattle, especially north of the Kafue River. Some large droves of sheep and goats are to
            be found in the Betonga country, but very few cattle there.

            Anything that could alleviate this vast extent of fine country from the plague of locusts
            would be a great benefaction, not only or merely, though very directly to the natives, but
            also to the entire country - a gain to the world in its own way.
            With my compliments and best wishes for the success of your aims and objects,
            I remain, yours faithfully,
            DON. S. GARVIE.

            Q /
            ---X--------------------------------
            O \

            Donald Garvie (b.3 Jun 1873, Edinburgh, Scotland) married Cornelia Steyn (b.?, Barclay
            East) and are referred to in Meinetzhagen's "Kenya Diary"....

            "The only European settlers in the whole of the Nandi country are two Boer families
            called Garvie and Steyn...terrified of the Nandi."
            - Col. R.Meinertzhagen, Kenya 1905.

            Donald died and is buried in Nairobi in 1912.

            Any information pertaining to either the Garvie or Steyn referred to here would be
            greatly appreciated. As well as references to Dr Munro and the "Chartered Company"
            mentioned in the letter.

            Colin Garvie
            Durban
          • Anton Dil
            Not finding anything on Munro, Garvie or Steyn, but there are some Steyns in Lusaka s one school in 1925 See the link below from Richard Sampson s So This Was
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 5, 2006
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              Not finding anything on Munro, Garvie or Steyn, but there are some Steyns in Lusaka's one school in 1925
               
              See the link below from Richard Sampson's 'So This Was Lusaakas" (The story of the capital of Zambia)
               
              Listing school children in Lusaka in 1925, many of whose families, I imagine, would have come up from the south
               
              Anton


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            • Anton Dil
              It s a guess, but this might be the British South Africa Company. There s something on its origins at Kew CO 879/37/7 See also the scramble for Africa Anton
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 5, 2006
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                It's a guess, but this might be the British South Africa Company.
                 
                There's something on its origins at Kew
                CO 879/37/7
                 
                See also  "the scramble for Africa"

                Anton

                Colin Garvie <garvie@...> wrote:
                Hi Anton

                > I have the following in "They Came to Northern Rhodesia", compiled by
                > Richard Sampson (1956) from local archives. This (slim) book records
                > "persons who had entered what is now the territory of (Northern
                > Rhodesia) Zambia by 31st December 1902."

                Could you check for me too, please?

                I have the following transcribed clipping, a printed letter addressed to a certain Dr
                Munro, regarding a trip Donald Sutherland Garvie made into Central Africa but I have
                never been able to establish the source of this nor who the Dr Munro is. Perhaps you or
                someone else on the list can assist.

                Q /
                ---X--------------------------------
                O \

                JOHANNESBURG, January 23, 1899.

                Dear Dr Munro,

                I have pleasure in stating, according to your request, what I saw generally, as well as re
                locusts, in my travels in the north of South Africa and in Central Africa. There were three
                partners of us, and we went on a trading tour as well as on a voyage of experience and
                discovery. We started from Buluwayo, and trekked northwards, along the Guay River,
                crossing the Zambesi River at Wankies Drift, about the 27th degree longitude, that is,
                seventy or eighty miles east of the Victoria Falls, or about the confluence of the Guay
                River with the Zambesi. We travelled in a northerly direction to the Mashu Kalumbwe
                country, passing through parts of the Betonga country, and crossing the Mashu
                Kalumbwe northern border at Naupagi. We then journeyed north-west to the Kafue
                River, extending about 250 miles into Central Africa proper, to the north of the Zambesi
                River at the point mentioned. As far as we could ascertain, never did any white man
                travel in these parts or along the same route through the Mashu Kalumbwe country
                before. The natives made long journeys to see us. In the Betonga country, for a distance
                of about 100 miles to the north of the Zambesi, over which the Chartered Company has
                some sort of influence, the natives are peaceably inclined, and before approaching you,
                the custom - amounting to a rule - is universally observed, namely, to lay down their
                arms -assegais. But farther north in the Mashu Kalumbwe country they do not do so, they
                do not acknowledge this right or obligation upon approaching a white person, so they
                retain some seven or eight assegais under the left arm, and one in the right hand, ready
                for action if they see occasion. In all that country the natives have no firearms, and all
                appear to be frightened of them. The Betongas use the old elephant muzzle-loading guns,
                and seldom do they ever waste a shot, as they shoot at a very short range. We met with
                some trouble on more than one occasion from the Mashu Kalumbwe natives.
                The locust plague extends all over the country through which we travelled. We passed
                many swarms on the wing during our journey. The natives suffer immensely by the
                locusts, and many of the Betonga natives are in great wretchedness from this cause, and
                are actually dying of starvation, the locusts having almost cleared the fields of grain.

                In order to illustrate the state of things induced from this cause in that country, it will be
                well to state what I passed through - of course, any description must fall short of the
                reality in such a case. The thought of the sights I saw makes me still shudder as I recall
                them to mind. In the course of our business it fell to my lot to return alone by a certain
                route. The journey was one of twelve days' fair or good travelling, and I had to walk all
                the way, I left my partners at a native village called Marico, about forty miles from
                Mondy, where I intended trading, and securing enough grain to last me until my arrival at
                the Zambesi River, which was five days' journey from Mondy. So, after providing myself
                with the necessary beads and limbo, i.e. calico for trading, and procuring food, I
                proceeded from Marico to Mondy. But on making the requisite inquiry at Mondy, I
                found to to my surprise and consternation that no grain could there be had to help me in
                the way I expected. The locusts has eaten it up, so that I could at most secure only one
                small wooden bowlful (just enough for one meal). All the way down from Mondy to the
                Zambesi River I discovered in several instances that the natives had been starving, and
                that many had died from this cause. On arriving at the native village, called Matagalli, it
                was very evident that the people were ingreat distress, for they subsisted for the means of
                living solely on roots and the bark of a certain tree. Out of the five days' march from
                Mondy to the Zambesi River I had only three meals, which consisted of boiled Kaffir
                corn.

                Game of all kinds is very plentiful, north of the Zambesi River, but having run short of
                ammunition, I was unable to kill or procure any game. Often on the march I had to delay
                an hour or two to enable the "boys" who were travelling with me to dig up roots to eat.

                Then again I have seen the natives eat the locusts. They cook them by roasting them
                entire on the cinders obtainable from a fire of wood, and they eat all except the wings.
                On arriving at the Zambesi River, the difference there was notable - there the natives
                were more fortunate, for they had an abundance of fish, and a fair amount or supply of
                grain. I managed to secure enoughgrain to carry me on to N'Gwatie's, where we had left
                our waggon on the outward journey, with ample provision for our return journey. At this
                place I met my partners, and there we exchanged accounts of our respective perils and
                experiences. They had in their tour observed the same distress amongst the natives,
                caused by the locusts, along the route in which my companions also travelled.

                The Mashu Kalumbwe country possesses very beautiful scenery. Its large palm trees give
                great picturesqueness to it. It abounds in fine pasture, and there are numerous herds of
                cattle, especially north of the Kafue River. Some large droves of sheep and goats are to
                be found in the Betonga country, but very few cattle there.

                Anything that could alleviate this vast extent of fine country from the plague of locusts
                would be a great benefaction, not only or merely, though very directly to the natives, but
                also to the entire country - a gain to the world in its own way.
                With my compliments and best wishes for the success of your aims and objects,
                I remain, yours faithfully,
                DON. S. GARVIE.

                Q /
                ---X--------------------------------
                O \

                Donald Garvie (b.3 Jun 1873, Edinburgh, Scotland) married Cornelia Steyn (b.?, Barclay
                East) and are referred to in Meinetzhagen's "Kenya Diary"....

                "The only European settlers in the whole of the Nandi country are two Boer families
                called Garvie and Steyn...terrified of the Nandi."
                - Col. R.Meinertzhagen, Kenya 1905.

                Donald died and is buried in Nairobi in 1912.

                Any information pertaining to either the Garvie or Steyn referred to here would be
                greatly appreciated. As well as references to Dr Munro and the "Chartered Company"
                mentioned in the letter.

                Colin Garvie
                Durban






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