Re: Pope Benedict to Resign -- what next?
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "vlfkorgan1" <vlfcolorado@...> wrote:
[SHAWN}> As John stated none of the ten kings had received a kingdom (single kingdom ruled by ten kings) yet in his day (Rev. 17:12) this places the fulfillment in the future some time after John's day. Notice, these ten kings rule over a single kingdom!
Not sure what you mean by the single kingdom ruled by ten kings part, but do agree that the ten horns are future in John's day.
I don't think they are the same as the ten horns in Daniel 7, at least not in TIME, after all, three of those horns were uprooted, though the horns may well represent the European attempt at union. Is this what you mean by "single kingdom"? Though I don't think they will ever get it into a single kingdom, the only unity will be in their support of the papal agenda (for one hour). They give their power to the beast for ONE HOUR, then turn on the harlot woman.
This is all in context of the SEVEN LAST PLAGUES, since the heavenly messenger revealing these things to John is one of the seven angels carrying the bowl of one of the plagues. Beginning prior to the plagues with the final confederacy against the Lamb and His faithful, and ending with the complete destruction of Babylon.
[SHAWN] In the context of Revelation 13, I see Revelation 17 as portraying the rise of the image of the beast (the seventh head) at which time the eight (Romanism) will regain its power thereby effectively reviving the beast.
It only makes sense that the image of the beast that is so central to the last crises be in there.
[SHAWN} It is not until after the image of the beast is formed in the United States that the beast truly regains its former power followed by the ten kings (all the world) seen to unite with this grand movement for the conversion of all the world (small and great, rich and poor, free and bond).
[ULICIA} Good point -- Rev. 13 puts the two events together.
[SHAWN] "Foreign nations will follow the example of the United States. Though she leads out, yet the same crisis will come upon our people in all parts of the world."--6T 395.1
> "Romanism in the Old World and apostate Protestantism in the New will pursue a similar course toward those who honor all the divine precepts."--GC 615.2
> America leads out. The image of the beast will be formed first which will then work in conjunction with Romanism in the Old World to bring the entire earth under subjection represented by the ten kings ruling over a single kingdom uniting with the beast.
> [Bob #2] Do you maintain that the beast "is not" at the very time the woman is riding the beast?
>[SHAWN] What says the Scriptures? We are not advised the woman steps off the beast during the "is not" phase so it is safe to assume the woman is still riding the beast during the "is not" phase (whether the beast is dead or alive in some form). The question is what does "is not" mean? Is the beast dead or alive? Either way, the beast is so stripped of its power that it is accounted of in Scripture as being in an "is not" state prior to the rise of the image of the beast. Once the image of the beast is formed however the beast revives for a fierce and determined conflict to regain control of the world. The plans are being laid; the crisis is soon to arrive.
And I believe scripture supports the above:
The same text that says the beast "is not" repeats that phrase and adds -- "is not, yet is".
"kaiper" = although or yet
"esti" = he/she/it IS (third person singular of 'to be')
Though the beast is believed to be gone -- IT STILL IS and will come into power with a suddenness and strength that will totally overwhelm most of the world.
[SHAWN}> "The Roman Church is far-reaching in her plans and modes of operation. She is employing every device to extend her influence and increase her power in preparation for [future] a fierce and determined conflict to  regain control of the world, to  re-establish persecution, and to  undo all that Protestantism has done."--GC 565.4
> "God's word has given warning of the impending danger; let this be unheeded, and the Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. She is piling up her lofty and massive structures in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions will be repeated. Stealthily and unsuspectedly she is strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage ground, and this is already being given her. We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is."--GC 581.2
> Soon the beast will no longer be regarded as being in an "is not" phase but rather in the "is" phase when persecution once again bursts upon the world in a sudden and violent attack to regain control of this earth.
- [Shawn] The signs in the sun, moon and stars will occur again for the generation that saw those events was not to perish until they also witnessed the heavens shaken at the voice of God and the return of Jesus.
[Bob] When will they occur again?
I take the position that it is impossible for them to occur again, as I will explain below.
But your statement above disagrees with the text itself.
Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
You referred to vs. 34 in your statement, which verse uses the same phrase, "all these things," found in vs. 33. "All these things" is what shows that Christ's coming is NEAR, but your statement instead says that the "all these things" include Christ's being HERE.
Since the length of time between 1780 and 1833 is 53 years, the same generation saw "all these things." Christ's words were literally fulfilled. The shaking of the powers of heaven and the sign of the Son of man in heaven are things that occur during Christ's return, and thus they can't possibly be signs that Christ's coming is near.
Christ has been one step away, "near, even at the doors," since 1833. That's the year by which they had seen "all these things."
One other consideration: The SS quarterly a number of years ago took the position that the signs would be repeated, citing GC's description of the second coming, which description includes darkness and an earthquake. The author of the quarterly took the position that this was a repetition of the signs described in the 6th seal. HOWEVER, under the 6th seal the order is reversed. The earthquake comes first and then the darkness. Thus Ellen White's description of the second coming does not match that of the 6th seal's signs.
The place in Revelation to find an earthquake following darkness is the 5th and 7th plagues of the 7 last plagues, not the 6th seal.
[Shawn] As for the Ram and the He-Goat we know the fulfillment was during the time of Medo-Persia and Greece. However, if the parallel continues between what Greece did to Medo-Persia and what the United States did to Iraq and will soon do to Iran, the next point of repetition is the collapse of Greece the collapse of the economy in the United States! Will this take place? There is every indication this is coming.
[Bob] Parallel continues? What parallel are you referring to?
Charles Wheeling re-applied Dan. 8's ram and goat to Iran/Iraq and the U.S. I know he was doing this by 1988. Certainly we can get lessons from history, but the idea that Dan. 8 is a prophecy of the U.S. going against Iran or Iraq is simply wrong.