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Re: Heaven and Hell - earlier - why we need to pray to GOD

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  • Jayaram Thiagarajan
    Dear Sri Narayana, The purANAs do carry vivid descriptions of various hells. These are sufferings that the jIva undergoes, as you put it right. Just as the
    Message 1 of 30 , Mar 8, 2005
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      Dear Sri Narayana,

      The purANAs do carry vivid descriptions of various hells. These are
      sufferings that the jIva undergoes, as you put it right. Just as the
      jIva experiences happiness through karma, it also suffers through
      karma. Thoughts and intentions cause the jIva to go through these
      experiences.

      Thoughts translate into three types of Karmas - sancita, prArabDa
      and Agami. sancita karma is all the karma accumulated from past
      actions. prArabDa is the karma that is reposnible for the experience
      as the jIva goes through it in its current birth. Agami is the karma
      that the jIva would accumulate as it go through its prArabDa
      experience.

      All our scriptures seem to agree upon the fact that while sancita
      and Agami karmas can be nullified, the prArabDa has to be exhausted
      by experience and experience alone. An interesting analogy to
      understand this is using an archer who has just shot an arrow and is
      ready to shoot another, while having a few more arrows in his
      quiver. The arrow he just shot is the prArabDa. He can no longer
      control it and can only experience its travel. The arrow he has
      readied to shoot is his sancita and those in his quiver are his
      Agami. He has control over both these.

      So, this damnation or hell we are talking about is "earned" by the
      jIva in its previous prArabDa experience.

      I find Shankara's approach aligned very closely to the direction of
      the upanishads and vedas and am really impressed.

      To the learned scholars in this form : Please correct me if I seem
      to be saying something wrong.

      Regards,
      Jayaram Thiagarajan

      --- In advaitin@yahoogroups.com, "narayana_kl_71"
      <narayana_kl_71@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Sridhar-ji,
      >
      >
      > > The only description of heaven and hell i can recall is from
      > > mahabharatha. In mahabaratha, towards the end, Yudishtira is
      taken
      > > through a place which i believe is described as hell where he
      finds
      > > his brothers undergoing a bit of expiating experiences . The
      > > description of the place as having abominable stench, wailing
      > soulds
      > > etc.- sounds a lot like hell!
      >
      >
      > Please note the description of various hells that occurs in the
      > purANas and some other smritis. As an example, the vishNu purANa,
      > vAmana purANa, bhAgavata purANa etc. describe various hells. Some
      of
      > the names of the hells are tamisra, andhatamisra, raurava,
      > maharaurava, kumbhipaka, kalasutra, asipatravana, sukara-mukha,
      > andhakupa etc. In each hell, the jIva undergoes specific type of
      > sufferings which are described in detail.
      >
      >
      > > On BG you refer to ,bhagwan Sri Krishna at one point says that
      > those
      > > steeped in Tamas only go down further in evolution- one could
      > become
      > > an animal or a stone.I do not recollect any verse that speaks
      about
      > > deadly suffering in hell.
      >
      >
      > There is no detailed description of hell in the BG. However, my
      > point was that the concept of eternal damnation and hell occur
      > (atleast apparently) in the BG. Please go through chapter 16. I
      dont
      > remember what Sankara says on this.
      >
      >
      >
      > > Otherwise I grew up being told that heaven and hell are in this
      > life
      > > only!.
      >
      >
      > Your information is not incorrect. After describing various hells
      in
      > detail, the vishNu purANa mentions that hell and heaven are
      various
      > states of mind. I dont know about the position of other purANas or
      > smritis here.
    • Raghavarao Kaluri
      Namaste Dr. Yadu Ji, ... Raghava:- Spiritual quest follows a natural evolutionary path and each of the aspects under the many have their rightful places in
      Message 2 of 30 , Mar 8, 2005
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        Namaste Dr. Yadu Ji,

        >>>>Raghava:-
        >>>> As we know, the Goddess accompanied Shree Sankara
        >>>> everywhere wherever he travelled.

        >>> Dr.Yadu Ji:-
        >>>http://www.escribe.com/culture/advaitin/m25124.html
        >>>This problem arises only when we regard the GOD
        >>>as being separate for the BHAKTA....
        >>>By saying the SHE accompanied HIM on her
        >>>own we are identifying them as being separate.

        >>Raghava:-
        >> In spite of the many, one has to see the unity.

        >Dr.Yadu Ji
        >That is precisely what I have been trying to say.

        Raghava:-
        Spiritual quest follows a natural evolutionary path
        and each of the aspects under the 'many' have their
        rightful places in the all-encompassing advaita.

        Kabir said, "The formless Absolute is my Father, and
        God with form is my Mother".
        Srimad Bhagavad Geetha 12:1-5 conveys about Personal
        God and Impersonal God.

        Thus, if two people can talk in material plane (one
        talking and the other listening vice-versa) while they
        are one in Brahman, Goddess, the Personal, can also
        physically follow Shree Sankara everywhere he went.

        Love & Regards,
        Raghava









        ________________________________________________________________________
        Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/
      • ymoharir
        ... are ... the ... Namaste Jayram-Ji: The vivid description in puraaNa was most probably designed for improving one s understanding. But the problem creeps
        Message 3 of 30 , Mar 9, 2005
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          --- In advaitin@yahoogroups.com, "Jayaram Thiagarajan"
          <jayaram_t@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Sri Narayana,
          >
          > The purANAs do carry vivid descriptions of various hells. These
          are
          > sufferings that the jIva undergoes, as you put it right. Just as
          the
          > jIva experiences happiness through karma, it also suffers through
          > karma. Thoughts and intentions cause the jIva to go through these
          > experiences.
          >
          >
          > Jayaram Thiagarajan
          >
          > --- In advaitin@yahoogroups.com, "narayana_kl_71"
          > <narayana_kl_71@y...> wrote:
          > >
          >

          Namaste Jayram-Ji:

          The vivid description in puraaNa was most probably designed for
          improving one's understanding. But the problem creeps up when we
          start accepting the principles at their face value.

          Kaplimuni (samkhaya propponant) when discussing the relationship of
          attachment with his mother devahuti says -

          ataiva narakaH svrga iti maataH pracaxate | yaa yaatanaa vai
          naakyastaa ihaapyupalaxitaaH || bhaagavata 3.30.29 |

          meaing (liberal) - Oh Mother! svarga and narakaa is right here.

          The take home message was that we are responsible for creating them
          (heaven or Hell).

          In moxa giitaa explains to arjuna -

          moxasya na hi vaaso.asti na graamantarameva . adnyaana
          hR^idayagranthinaasho moxa iti smR^ita .. shivagiitaa 13\.32 ..

          Meaning - moxa is not going from one place to another (Mumbai to
          Delhi or vaiku.nTha) but the amputation of the glands that secrete
          ignorance.

          vij~naate saaxipuruShe paramaatmani ceshvare |
          nairaashye bandhamoxe ca na cintaamuktaye mama || aShTaavakra giitaa
          14\.3 ||

          Meaning - Once haing realized the significance of "saaxi puruSha", a
          real J~naani does not even have the desire (kaamanaa) for moxa
          either.

          Now if we take the overall picture at individual or social
          vyavahaarikaa or paramaarthikaa level.

          Accepting the puraaNika concepts at face value as being absolute
          true; the only folks who have suffered were no body else but us.
          Could the daaasya-bhaava be the real cause of our peasent day
          suffring as well!!??

          Regards,

          Dr. Yadu
        • narayana_kl_71
          Sri Jayaram ji, I dont disagree with you on most of these fundamental issues. However I was merely pointing out that heaven and hell are viewed differently in
          Message 4 of 30 , Mar 9, 2005
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            Sri Jayaram ji,


            I dont disagree with you on most of these fundamental issues.
            However I was merely pointing out that heaven and hell are viewed
            differently in different schools or branches of hinduism. I
            mentioned in the beginning itself that what Sridhar-ji thinks about
            heaven and hell are mostly true for advaita vedAnta. But some
            schools of hinduism and some scriptures too take these concepts more
            literally and that is all I wanted to point out. Of course, even the
            vishNu purANa, which gives these concepts in detail, ultimately
            mentions that heaven and hell are various states of mind. Do the
            other such scriptures which talk about heaven and hell in detail
            also mention that? I have no idea.




            --- In advaitin@yahoogroups.com, "Jayaram Thiagarajan"
            <jayaram_t@y...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > Dear Sri Narayana,
            >
            > The purANAs do carry vivid descriptions of various hells. These
            are
            > sufferings that the jIva undergoes, as you put it right. Just as
            the ..........
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